The Black Market and Terrorism

[UncleSunny]

I got to thinking...I am a Medical Marijuana Patient in California, and because I have a love of plants and the space to grow, many owners of collectives are pushing me to grow. Both my wife and I are patients, and therefore allowed to grow up to 24 plants in total, each being allowed 6 flowering and 6 vegatative plants.
However, many people don't have this right, and under Federal law, neither do we. Because I am involved and growing under my California rights, I do a lot of reading on the politics and the struggle for legalization, but one of the things I've personally never heard argued is how marijuana prohibition causes international black markets over the border, and these Black markets are VERY suseptable to terrorist infultration. I mean, some security personell or dock workers might be bought off to turn their heads to smuggling, and therefore not watching when some anti-American extremist may sneak in amonst the contraban. By making something illegal, you seperate the system that ultimately WILL take up the demand, and are perhaps far less worried about car bombs going off at stadiums by crazed extremist.
If our government is so worried about protecting our borders, then you'd think they would ease off in order to join forces against a much larger evil. If people could grow Marijuana openly in the states, the demand for imported drugs would be lowered and the venues for terrorists sneaking in would dwindle.
I understand that I am on a Marijuana message board, so I am totally "preaching to the converted" here, but really...it makes NO sense that we should create laws that promote secrecy over our borders. Not only that, but if people were free to grow their own weed and kept any kind of distribution to just close friends, the jails would clear up, and us stoners would have more money to spend at Starbucks or Wal-Mart and support the economy...and not be so damn broke all the time.

 

[lynchburgball]

criminal activity often assorts itself with other criminal elements. maybe not really terrorism but criminality. it sucks, but it's just an attribute of our illegal trade that proponents use to justify their continuing War on Drugs. there is nothing inherently wrong or evil about black markets but certainly there is less regulation and more opportunity here for those with less than reputable characters and intentions to infultrate and thrive. if the govt. just let us grow it here, there'd be no organized crime behind it, crime not terrorism.

 

[ViRedd]

The black market in pot sales is not immoral at all. Where ever you have a willing buyer and a willing seller with no coersion involved, that's called a free market. Free markets, where no one's rights are violated are moral. When government interfers for government's benefit, THAT'S immoral. And other than drug dealers, the main benefactor in the War on Drugs is the government. The largest lobbying group against Prop. 215 in California was the California Correctional Officer's Union. Government unions would be the largest voices in disapproval if ever a large movement started for the legalization of all drugs. The government bureaucrats depend upon these laws staying in place in order to maintain their jobs and power. Remember, above all else, government is power and nothing more.

Vi

 

[Dankdude]

UncleSunny, as long as your number remain in the California Legal Limits the Feds aren't going to do nothing. The State Can not turn your records over to the Feds either as the Government has screwed themselves when they enacted the HIPAA Law. The Health Insurance Portability And Accountability Act (HIPAA) has privacy provisions that forbids any Doctor's office, Hospital, Medical Professional or State or Federal agency from divulging what's in your medical records with out the patients permission.

 

[medicineman]

UncleSunny, as long as your number remain in the California Legal Limits the Feds aren't going to do nothing. The State Can not turn your records over to the Feds either as the Government has screwed themselves when they enacted the HIPAA Law. The Health Insurance Portability And Accountability Act (HIPAA) has privacy provisions that forbids any Doctor's office, Hospital, Medical Professional or State or Federal agency from divulging what's in your medical records with out the patients permission.

Come on Dank, you trust these criminals to play by the rules? They could just say an informant tipped them off, sowing mistrust among you and your friends. I used to be paranoid untill I realized it was true. They will do anything necessary to criminalize you if they want you.

 

[ViRedd]

Med's right ...

There are no compassion clubs in my county. The city councils and the county supervisors won't issue the necessary business permits. The Sheriff, even though he has never attended medical school, continually speaks out as if HE is the one to administer dose amounts. I'm sure that if the DEA wanted to raid medical growers who are only growing for personal use, the Sheriff's Department would be leading the charge.

Vi

 

[Dankdude]

Med may be correct on this but if the Medical Records were obtained by raiding a Doctor's office or if they coheresed the State to turn over those record. The Records would be inadmissible in court. That is Federal law.

 

[proudlyashamed]

I got to thinking...I am a Medical Marijuana Patient in California, Both my wife and I are patients, and therefore allowed to grow up to 24 plants in total, each being allowed 6 flowering and 6 vegatative plants....I do a lot of reading on the politics and the struggle for legalization, but one of the things I've personally never heard argued is how marijuana prohibition causes international black markets over the border, and these Black markets are VERY suseptable to terrorist infultration....If our government is so worried about protecting our borders, then you'd think they would ease off in order to join forces against a much larger evil. If people could grow Marijuana openly in the states, the demand for imported drugs would be lowered and the venues for terrorists sneaking in would dwindle.

Most of the main news sources are propaganda machines. I am far from conpiracy theory here. I am sure there are Islamic fundamentalist groups involved in illegal cannabis trade, but I really doubt it works as they would like you to believe. My guess is that most of the people invloved in the black market of cannabis are like us( u know, nice normal folk.)

Federal still rules over state... lost the appeal in the link below.
The truth. As an American you are doing your duty standng up for rights. Federal should not over turn state laws of this nature. Where is the primice? That is why they use the good ol catch 22 scare tactic, i.e, u r supporting terror. They have found two cannibinoid receptors in our brain that we use. This could be just the tip of the kola. Think of the advances we could make...Hey I got an idea let's take a good ol' vote..put a choice in the election..relegalize or not, bet i can guess who would win.


BBC NEWS | Americas | US upholds medical marijuana ban

 

[Dankdude]

Let's face facts, The Feds aren't really interested unless you are growing large quantities of plants. If you are in compliance with the State Medical Marijuana laws, you don't have much to worry about.

 

[ViRedd]

Let's face facts, The Feds aren't really interested unless you are growing large quantities of plants. If you are in compliance with the State Medical Marijuana laws, you don't have much to worry about.

Then why are they raiding compassion clubs throughout Kalifornia?

I agree with you Dank ... if a legal med user is growing a small amount in their home, they have NOTHING to worry about from the feds.

Vi

 

[Dankdude]

Then why are they raiding compassion clubs throughout Kalifornia?

I agree with you Dank ... if a legal med user is growing a small amount in their home, they have NOTHING to worry about from the feds.

Vi

Thank you for agreeing with me. I Guess?

You ever think the reason why they raid the Compassion Clubs in California is because of them claiming non-profit status?
I'm sure that if taxes were paid and the clubs were in compliance the raids would slow down.

One of the Biggest non-tax paying enterprises in Cali are the Compassion Clubs. These clubs basically charge street prices for decent bud and rake in money hand over fist. Think about it.

 

[medicineman]

Then why are they raiding compassion clubs throughout Kalifornia?

I agree with you Dank ... if a legal med user is growing a small amount in their home, they have NOTHING to worry about from the feds.

Vi

I wonder why in Nevada with approx. 3 Million residents, there are only a little over 600 med lisences, do you think the citizenry doesn't trust the feds? I could qualify with my arthritus and diabetes, but like the rest of the citizenry, I won't apply for the lisence. There is a legal way around long term incarceration and felony charges for growing small amounts. If you can prove you needed the cannabis for relief of medical symptoms, Pain being one, you can get a lisence post bust and have your record cleared. That is what is posted on the NORML site about Nevadas pot laws.

 

[clekstro]

I remember seeing those sorts of commercials after 9/11, saying that people who bought illegal drugs supported terrorism. But no guilt, fellas: you guys could try and compete, and donate all of your income to ''terrorism'' with the money the government spends to finance nasty groups and could never come close. I hope no one believes that pot is where they make their money, as the government's own evidence says that half of our supply comes from home growers like ourselves.

The real money is in other drugs, the kind the CIA liked, and may still like, to sell. The illegality of drugs, in my opinion, keeps the value of drugs up, and makes new options viable to the government. They can evade drug officials (because they know where all of the DEA agents are) and claim plausible ignorance while funding whatever hardliner in desperate need of a militia. Does that provide some perspective to why opium production has gone up 2000% in Afghanistan since we've invaded? When we could clearly stop it? --But that would crush the Afghan economy, where poppies are the undisputed cash crop!?!
We disbanded the army in Iraq, didn't we?

They just try to pin the blame on others (i.e. us) to keep up the moral fantasy at home of innocence and competence. Legalization would kill the ability of the CIA to use drug profits to affect/dominate regional politics.

 

[UncleSunny]

Dank is right about a lot, and although there is a Consititutional seperation of State law over Federal, you still see the LAPD when the DEA raids a marijuana pharmacy, and local Police hassling co-ops. I mean, Yes Dank, HIPAA is a real saviour to many of us here in legalized States, but how many people actually KNOW what HIPAA and the Medical Privacy Act actually are about? Most people get in trouble because they don't understand their rights, and during that (c'mon you all, every body knows how freaking intense a police encounter can be) stressful moment, they allow the police to take advantage.
The other element in play is that although most Pot smokers (medical or not) are relaxed folks, just going about their business, but there is an element of jokers out there who make us look bad and give all the anecdotal evidence that we are all a bunch of gansters and wackos. And it's usually those jokers who get in front of the camera or the judge.
Ultimately, my point was more about how the Consitution is supposed to allow us to do what we want in our homes, but people get busted all the time for growing a plant. Yes, I am VERY fortunate (but i did move from PA to CA for this) to live in a state that allows me my medicine, but most people in America are not. I just wanted to point out how our system doesn't see what it is doing from so many angles, and I guess just point it out because as a broke ass pot head, that's really all I can do.

 

[Dankdude]

Thank you sunny, If people would take the time and learn their rights, they would find out where they stand as far as the law is concerned.
Although LEO may try and scare you, intimidate you and flat out break the law, once you know where you stand, you have the ammunition that will help you out in court.
Even the Feds are bound by FEDERAL LAW, if they violate the law they run the risk of any evidence against you being thrown out of court.
Most do not know that if you are in jail, you have the right to use the law library, although the guards may try and intimidate you use that right. If the don't let you use that right then you use the next step. Familiarize yourself with the number (usually an 800 number) of the ACLU in your area. Police agencies and jails hate dealing with the ACLU. (I have used them a time or two myself).

Also never let any cop search your house, car or other properties with out a warrant.
Remember the Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution:
"The Right to be secure in their persons,houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

If the cops say: "Do you mind if I look in your purse, bag, home, or car?"
You Say: "I do not consent to a search."
When the cops say: "why Not, are you hiding something?"
You Say: "I believe in my constitutional right to privacy and I do not consent to a search."

Now this may not stop an officer from searching you, but it can help get any evidence thrown out of court.

Search warrants:
DO NOT let any officer into your home without a search warrant.
Check the address, the date (it must be reasonably recent) and a JUDGES signature.

If LEO knocks on your door, step outside and close the door behind you while you find out why they are there. DO NOT leave the door open.
If they do enter your home with or without a search warrant say "I do not consent to a search."

There are 3 levels of police interaction and safe ways to handle each encounter:

• 
  [1] 'Casual Conversation: Ask if you are being detained. If not, Walk away.
  [2] Detention: If you are being detained, ask why! Make them cite the law (and remember what they say)!
  [3] Arrest: Say "I choose to remain silent and I want to see a lawyer" (Remember to remain silent)

 

[UncleSunny]

Great point Dank,
But there is one more thing. Let me just say that I have been detained by the police 9 times, and handcuffed twice and I have never (knock wood) been arrested. People I was with went to jail, but I walked away every time for two reasons...
1.I kept my mouth SHUT until I was asked a question, and
2. I remained polite, unagressive and extremely respectful.

Those times when the folks I was with were arrested, each time, went in the back of a squad car because they asserted themselves in an agressive manner. Even a "what the fuck is going on?" can land your ass in jail for a night.
My point is that knowing the law is only one part. I can KNOW that I have the right of way crossing the street, but the asshole on a cell phone not looking can still crush my bones with his SUV. It is the same with cops; your understanding of the statutes and laws won't stop that nightstick from cracking your head open. The big three ("am I being detained?" "I do not consent to any searches," and " I refuse to speak without my attorney present") are vital statements, but most cops are just 1 part ego, 1 part fear and 2 parts moustache, so you gotta play it like a poker game, each time is different.

 

[UncleSunny]

Viredd,

It is crazy that they raid some clubs in Cali, but at the same time, there are regulations that are pretty strict, and many clubs, although they claim random terrorization from the DEA, are stepping outside their boundaries in order to compete. Under California law, Pharmacies can only buy from Medical MArijuana patients. However, if you were a business owner with a knowledge of where cheap, but illegal, product was being sold, what would you do? These club compete by having the widest selection and heavy supply, but finding growers in an urban area is sometimes hard, and folks outside the city have to deal with the DEA helicopters and thieves. It's a legal illegal product, depending on who flies by.
For as much as I ultimately believe that anyone, anywhere over a certain age should be allowed to use marijuana for whatever reason they choose, the law is the law, and we are never going to change it or make things better by breaking it...unless of course that's the only way you can get your weed. I just don't think that the DEA throws a dart at a map to hassle cannabis clubs...people, even compassionate caregivers, can do stupid shit and get busted for it. That doesn't mean they are going to tell the media, "I was using illegal products and not paying my taxes"...
They are going to paint themselves as victims, while we trying to extend this law suffer the political setback.

 

[krillianred]

Then why are they raiding compassion clubs throughout Kalifornia?

I agree with you Dank ... if a legal med user is growing a small amount in their home, they have NOTHING to worry about from the feds.

Vi

well, from what an attorney said to me once, you cant grow inside your dispensary/club/collective.

think about it... i think its because youre given free reign to grow and sell weed. if certain people are allowed to grow more than others, it would monopolize the market.

the same logic goes with those who sell weed; its an unwritten law to buy other weed even if you grow your own.

it supports the market, keeps businesses going.

 

[ViRedd]

OK ...

I'm a legal medical user/grower in California. Even though I abide by my county's limit of six flowering plants, I grow more than I can use. Are you guys saying that according to Prop. 215 and SB 420, I can legally sell my excess to compassion clubs?

My understanding is/was that a medical user cannot sell his/her crop, or even give it away.

Vi

 

[medicineman]

OK ...

I'm a legal medical user/grower in California. Even though I abide by my county's limit of six flowering plants, I grow more than I can use. Are you guys saying that according to Prop. 215 and SB 420, I can legally sell my excess to compassion clubs?

My understanding is/was that a medical user cannot sell his/her crop, or even give it away.

Vi

So by giving me that schwag, you broke the law. How interesting, maybe going to prison over some bunk,~LOL~.