What do liberals really want?

[ChChoda]

Excerpt from Ayn Rands, "The Fountainhead". After reading this, you have no excuse for your eventual situation.

"What do you want Ellsworth ?"


"Power, Petey. I want to rule. Like my spiritual predecessors. But I’m luckier than they were. I inherited the fruit of their efforts and I shall be the one who’ll see the great dream made real. I see it all around me today. I recognise it. I don’t like it. I didn’t expect to like it. Enjoyment is not my destiny. I shall find such satisfaction as my capacity permits. I shall rule."


"Whom...?"


"You. The world. It’s only a matter of discovering the lever. If you learn how to rule one single man’s soul, you can get the rest of mankind. It’s the soul, Peter, the soul. Not whips or swords or fire or guns. That’s why the Caesars, the attilas, the Napoleons were fools and did not last. We will. The soul, Peter, is that which can’t be ruled. It must be broken. Drive a wedge in, get your fingers on it – and the man is yours. You won’t need a whip – he’ll bring it to you and ask to be whipped. Set him in reverse – and his own mechanism will do your work for you. Use him against himself. Want to know how it’s done? See if I ever lied to you. See if you haven’t heard all this for years, but didn’t want to hear, and the fault is yours, not mine.


There are many ways. Here’s one. Make man feel small. Make him feel guilty. Kill his aspiration and his integrity. That’s difficult. The worst among you gropes for an idol in his own twisted way. Kill integrity by internal corruption. Use it against himself. Direct it towards a goal destructive of all integrity. Preach selflessness. Tell man that altruism is the ideal. Not a single one has ever reached it and not a single one ever will. His every living instinct screams against it. But don’t you see what you accomplish ? Man realises that he’s incapable of what he’s accepted as the noblest virtue - and it gives him a sense of guilt, of sin, of his own basic unworthiness. Since the supreme ideal is beyond his grasp, he gives up eventually all ideals, all aspiration, all sense of his personal value. He feels himself obliged to preach what he can’t practice. But one can’t be good halfway or honest approximately. To preserve one’s integrity is a hard battle. Why preserve that which one knows to be corrupt already? His soul gives up its self respect. You’ve got him. He’ll obey. He’ll be glad to obey – because he can’t trust himself, he feels uncertain, he feels unclean. That’s one way.


Here’s another. Kill man’s sense of values. Kill his capacity to recognise greatness or to achieve it. Great men can’t be ruled. We don’t want any great men. Don’t deny conception of greatness. Destroy it from within. The great is the rare, the difficult, the exceptional. Set up standards of achievement open to all, to the least, to the most inept – and you stop the impetus to effort in men, great or small. You stop all incentive to improvement, to excellence, to perfection. Laugh at Roark and hold Peter Keating as a great architect. You’ve destroyed architecture. Build Lois Cook and you’ve destroyed literature. Hail Ike and you’ve destroyed the theatre. Glorify Lancelot Clankey and you’ve destroyed the press. Don’t set out to raze all shrines – you’ll frighten men, Enshrine mediocrity - and the shrines are razed.


Then there’s another way. Kill by laughter. Laughter is an instrument of human joy. Learn to use it as a weapon of destruction. Turn it into a sneer. It’s simple. Tell them to laugh at everything. Tell them that a sense of humour is an unlimited virtue. Don't let anything remain sacred in a man’s soul – and his soul won’t be sacred to him. Kill reverence and you’ve killed the hero in man. One doesn’t reverence with a giggle. He’ll obey and he’ll set no limits to obedience – anything goes – nothing is too serious.


Here’s another way. This is most important. Don't allow men to be happy. Happiness is self-contained and self-sufficient. Happy men have no time and no use for you. Happy men are free men. So kill their joy in living. Take away from them what they want. Make them think that the mere thought of a personal desire is evil. Bring them to a state where saying ‘I want’ is no longer a natural right, but a shameful admission. Altruism is of great help in this. Unhappy men will come to you. They’ll need you. They’ll come for consolation, for support, for escape. Nature allows no vacuum. Empty man’s soul – and the space is yours to fill.


I don’t see why you should look so shocked, Peter. This is the oldest one of all. Look back at history. Look at any great system of ethics, from the Orient up. Didn’t they all preach the sacrifice of personal joy ? Under all the complications of verbiage, haven’t they all had a single leitmotif: sacrifice, renunciation, self-denial ? Haven’t you been able to catch their theme song – ‘Give up, give up, give up, give up’ ? Look at the moral atmosphere of today. Everything enjoyable, from cigarettes to sex to ambition to the profit motive, is considered depraved or sinful. Just prove that a thing makes men happy and you’ve damned it. That’s how far we’ve come. We’ve tied happiness to guilt. And we’ve got mankind by the throat.


Throw your first born into a sacrificial furnace – lie on a bed of nails – go into the desert to mortify the flesh – don’t dance – don't go to the movies on Sunday – don't try to get rich – don’t smoke – don’t drink. It’s all the same line. The great line. Fools don’t think that taboos of this nature are just nonsense. Something left over, old-fashioned. But there’s always a purpose in nonsense. Don’t bother to examine a folly – ask yourself only what it accomplishes. Every system of ethics that preached sacrifice grew into a world power and ruled millions of men.


Of course, you must dress them up. You must tell people they’ll achieve a superior kind of happiness by giving up everything that makes them happy. You don't have to be too clear about it. Use big vague words. ‘Universal Harmony’ – ‘Eternal Spirit’ – ‘Divine Purpose’ – ‘Nirvana’ - ‘Paradise’ – ‘Racial Supremacy’ – ‘the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.’ Internal corruption, Peter. That’s the oldest one of all. The farce has been going on for centuries and men still fall for it.


Yet the test should be so simple: just listen to any prophet and if you hear him speak of sacrifice – run. Run faster than from a plague. It stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there’s someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master. But if you ever hear a man telling you that you must be happy, that it’s your natural right, that your first duty is to yourself – that will be the man who has nothing to gain from you. But let him come and you’ll scream your empty heads off, howling that he’s a selfish monster. So the racket is safe for many, many centuries.


But here you might have noticed something. I said, ‘It stands to reason’. Do you see ? Men have a weapon against you. Reason. So you must be very sure to take it away from them. Cut the props from under it. But be careful. Don’t deny outright. Never deny anything outright, you give your hand away. Don’t say reason is evil – though some have gone that far and with astonishing success. Just say that reason is limited. That there’s something above it. What ? You don’t have to be too clear about it either. The field’s inexhaustible. ‘Instinct’ – ‘Feeling’ – ‘Revelation’ – ‘Divine Intuition’ – ‘Dialectic Materialism’. If you get caught at some crucial point and somebody tells you that your doctrine doesn’t make sense – you’re ready for him. You tell him there’s something above sense. That here he must not try to think, he must feel. He must believe. Suspend reason and you play it deuces wild. Anything goes in any manner you wish whenever you need it. You’ve got him. Can you rule a thinking man ? We don’t want any thinking men."


Keating had sat down on the floor, by the side of the dresser. He did not want to abandon the dresser; he felt safer, leaning against it.


"Peter, you’ve heard all this. You’ve seen me practising it for ten years. You see it being practised all over the world. Why are you disgusted ? You have no right to sit there and stare at me with the virtuous superiority of being shocked. You’re in on it. You’ve taken your share and you’ve got to go along. You’re afraid to see where it’s leading. I’m not. I’ll tell you.


The world of the future. The world I want. A world of obedience and of unity. A world where the thought of each man will not be his own, but an attempt to guess the thought of the next neighbour who’ll have no thought – and so on, Peter, around the globe. Since all must agree with all. A world where no man will hold a desire for himself, but will direct all his efforts to satisfy the desires of his neighbour who’ll have no desires except to satisfy the desires of the next neighbour, who’ll have no desires – around the globe, Peter. Since all must serve all. A world in which man will not work for so innocent an incentive as money, but for that headless monster – prestige. The approval of his fellows – their good opinion – the opinion of men who’ll be allowed to hold no opinion. An octopus, all tentacles and no brain.


Judgement, Peter ! Not judgement, but public polls. An average drawn upon zeroes – since no individuality will be permitted. A world with its motor cut off and a single heart, pumped by hand. My hand – and the hands of a few, a very few other men like me. Those who know what makes you tick – you great, wonderful average, you who have not risen in fury when we called you the average, the little, the common, you who’ve liked and accepted these names. You’ll sit enthroned and enshrined, you, the little people, the absolute ruler to make all past rulers squirm with envy, the absolute, the unlimited, God and Prophet and King combined. Vox populi. The average, the common, the general.


Do you know the proper antonym for Ego ? Bromide, Peter. The rule of the bromide. But even the trite has to be organised by someone at some time. We’ll do the organising. Vox dei. We’ll enjoy unlimited submission – from men who’ve learned nothing except to submit. We’ll call it ‘to serve’. We’ll give out medals for service. You’ll fall over one another in a scramble to see who can submit better and more. There will be no other distinction to seek. No other form of personal achievement.


Can you see Howard Roark in this picture ? No ? Then don’t waste time on foolish questions. Everything that can’t be ruled, must go. And if freaks persist in being born occasionally, they will not survive beyond their twelfth year. When their brain begins to function, it will feel the pressure and it will explode. The pressure gauged to a vacuum. Do you know the fate of deep-sea creatures brought out to sunlight? So much for future Roarks. The rest of you will smile and obey. Have you noticed that the imbecile always smiles ? Man’s first frown is the first touch of God on his forehead. The touch of thought. But we’ll have neither God nor thought. Only voting by smiles. Automatic levers – all saying yes...

Now if you were a little more intelligent, you’d ask: What of us, the rulers ? What of me, Ellsworth Monkton Toohey ? And I’d say, Yes, you’re right. I’ll achieve no more than you will. I’ll have no purpose save to keep you contended. To lie, to flatter you, to praise you, to inflate your vanity. To make speeches about the people and the common good. Peter, my poor old friend, I’m the most selfless man you’ve ever known. I have less independence than you, whom I just forced to sell your soul. You’ve used people at least for the sake of what you could get from them for yourself. I want nothing for myself. I use people for the sake of what I can do to them. It’s my only function and satisfaction. I have no private purpose. I want power. I want my world of the future. Let all live for all. Let all sacrifice and none profit. Let all suffer and none enjoy. Let progress stop. Let all stagnate. There’s equality in stagnation. All subjugated to the will of all. Universal slavery – without even the dignity of a master. Slavery to slavery. A great circle – and a total equality. The world of the future."


"Ellsworth... you’re..."


"Insane ? Afraid to say it ? There you sit and the world’s written all over you, your last hope. Insane ? Look around you. Pick up any newspaper and read the headlines. Isn’t it coming ? Isn’t it here ? Every single thing I told you ? Isn’t Europe swallowed already and we’re stumbling on to follow ? Everything I said is contained in a single word – collectivism. And isn’t that the god of our century. To act together. To think – together. To feel – together. To unite, to agree, to obey. To obey, to serve, to sacrifice. Divide and conquer – first. But then, unite and rule. We’ve discovered that one last. Remember the Roman Emperor who said he wished humanity had a single neck so he could cut it ? People have laughed at him for centuries. But we’ll have the last laugh. We’ve accomplished what he couldn’t accomplish. We’ve taught men to unite. This makes one neck ready for one leash. We found the magic word. Collectivism.


Look at Europe, you fool. Can’t you see past the guff and recognise the essence ? One country is dedicated to the proposition that man has no rights, that the collective is all. The individual held as evil, the mass – as God. No motive and no virtue permitted – except that of service to the proletariat.


That’s one version. Here’s another. A country dedicated to the proposition that man has no rights, that the State is all. The individual held as evil, the race – as God. No motive and no virtue permitted – except that of service to the race. Am I raving or is this the harsh reality of two continents already ? If you’re sick of one version, we push you in the other. We’ve fixed the coin. Heads – collectivism. Tails – collectivism. Give up your soul to a council – or give it up to a leader. But give it up, give it up, give it up. Offer poison as food and poison as antidote. Go fancy on the trimmings, but hang on to the main objective. Give the fools a chance, let them have their fun – but don’t forget the only purpose you have to accomplish. Kill the individual. Kill man’s soul. The rest will follow automatically."

 

[ChChoda]

This paragraph is the kicker. Who does it remind you of? "Sacrifice", "Service". Damn book was written in 1943 to boot!

Yet the test should be so simple: just listen to any prophet and if you hear him speak of sacrifice – run. Run faster than from a plague. It stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there’s someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master. But if you ever hear a man telling you that you must be happy, that it’s your natural right, that your first duty is to yourself – that will be the man who has nothing to gain from you. But let him come and you’ll scream your empty heads off, howling that he’s a selfish monster. So the racket is safe for many, many centuries.

 

[medicineman]

Well my silly friend, it seems she has described the status quo. The world as controlled by the right, the plutocrats, the oligarchs. I assume you are intended to be one of these, the oligarchs. Sorry Charley, unless you were born into this kind of power, it will never come to pass, those days are gone, unless you invent something everyone needs and can't live without. Keep thinking, maybe you can think yourself into power, but my senses tell me, it will take a lot of hard work and quite a bit of luck. It is who you know, not what you know, wake up. Reading Ann Rand novels will not make you rich.

 

[ChChoda]

Reading Ann Rand novels will not make you rich.

Neither will comporting with Obamas "vision".

 

[medicineman]

Neither will comporting with Obamas "vision".

Look little man, I gave up on rich long ago. I see some things good in Obamas agenda, but am now becoming a critic, as I don't see him doing my bidding. I'm sure each of us has a differing view on "Rich". Mine may be opposite of yours. If you think it is your mission in life to crush the common man and stomp on everyone you can to get to the top, then I see a lot of misery in your life. I was at one time primed to be in management, but after looking at the hassles, I said fuck this, I could make more by working a little overtime anyway. I was never one to kiss ass, and believe me, that is what management is all about, kissing the guy above you's ass while trying to stomp his ass into a mudhole and take his job, no thanks

 

[ChChoda]

Look little man, I gave up on rich long ago. I see some things good in Obamas agenda, but am now becoming a critic, as I don't see him doing my bidding. I'm sure each of us has a differing view on "Rich". Mine may be opposite of yours. If you think it is your mission in life to crush the common man and stomp on everyone you can to get to the top, then I see a lot of misery in your life. I was at one time primed to be in management, but after looking at the hassles, I said fuck this, I could make more by working a little overtime anyway. I was never one to kiss ass, and believe me, that is what management is all about, kissing the guy above you's ass while trying to stomp his ass into a mudhole and take his job, no thanks

I didn't ask about you, and I don't care. Stick to the topic, or start a "Hi, I'm medicineman, and this is my life thread!"

 

[medicineman]

I didn't ask about you, and I don't care. Stick to the topic, or start a "Hi, I'm medicineman, and this is my life thread!"

Well, if you insist then, Fuck you and fuck Ayn Rand.

 

[ChChoda]

I didn't ask about you, and I don't care. Stick to the topic, or start a "Hi, I'm medicineman, and this is my life thread!"

Sorry medicineman. Maybe that was the perfect answer to the original question, your "I" speech. Temper temper, you know.

 

[medicineman]

Sorry medicineman. Maybe that was the perfect answer to the original question, your "I" speech. Temper temper, you know.

Yes, I think it was. Should have not wasted my time and just got to the point.

 

[ChChoda]

Yes, I think it was. Should have not wasted my time and just got to the point.

Of which point do you mean? This one...

Well, if you insist then, Fuck you and fuck Ayn Rand.

I forgive you.

 

[greatghanjadude]

Oh ChCoda...you're so enlightened...lol. You read books, talk a good game, then you totally lose control of yourself...guess you don't like it when others have opinions different than yours...too bad...just keep on studying and maybe some day you'll achieve a level of maturity equal to your academics...perhaps a little counseling would help

 

[medicineman]

Of which point do you mean? This one...

Well, if you insist then, Fuck you and fuck Ayn Rand.

I forgive you.

Yeah that one. I could maybe give you a pass for being ignorant, but fuck Ayn Rand still stands. She has corrupted the minds of people for years. One thing I've found out in my almost 7 decades on this planet is: Right wing idiots are big dreamers and have a very loose hold on reality. I was on this site about Iraqi Dinars, A tried and true right wing site. These idiots were all dreaming bout striking it big with Dinars, hoping for a re-valuation that was never to come. They'd talk and talk about what they were going to do with all the money, idiots. I happen to have a few Dinars myself, I let one of my buddies talk me into it for investment potential, wasn't that much and I've actually made a little, but nothing like what those right wing idiots were hoping for.
I say, dream big, then work your ass off and see what happens, more than likely, you'll just be tired.

 

[ChChoda]

Oh ChCoda...you're so enlightened...lol. You read books, talk a good game, then you totally lose control of yourself...guess you don't like it when others have opinions different than yours...too bad...just keep on studying and maybe some day you'll achieve a level of maturity equal to your academics...perhaps a little counseling would help

I didn't attend public schools.....this surely would have helped me..reach...a...level...of...maturity. Right?

 

[ChChoda]

I say, dream big, then work your ass off and see what happens, more than likely, you'll just be tired.

If you're not tired, you did not work your ass off. Right?

 

[Dankdude]

The Problem with what Ayn Rand has to say it that it no longer applies. There is a political and economic dynamic she never foresaw.

 

[ChChoda]

The Problem with what Ayn Rand has to say it that it no longer applies. There is a political and economic dynamic she never foresaw.

History always repeats itself.

 

[jrh72582]

History always repeats itself.

You ASSUME this statement is undubitably true, but it's not.

You ASSUME Ayn Rand is undubitably true, but she's not.

I assume you're part of this growing movement which espouses Ayn Rand as their savior? And you quote from Fountainhead, ta boot? At least read Atlas Shrugged before you start spouting this objectivist bullshit. You were born in another person's womb! Someone sacrificed for YOU! You were born into a world of sacrifice and human connection. It's the basis of life on this earth. Transcendental ties run among us all, but you think you're wise because you read SOME of Ayn Rand, huh? Do you even understand objectivist philosophy?

I'm amazed by the sheer number of people now blindly quoting Rand (who isn't taken too seriously in academia). We're thinking of teaching a course on her next fall simply because of the demand. I'm all for it simply because I'm tired of know-it-all's quoting her as the ultimate prophet when they don't even understand the foundations upon which her philosophy is built. She uses completely different paradigms in her works, but yet you use our paradigms when assessing her aptitude of applicability. You have a lot to learn my friend. Research Rand and then see what you think.

And tell me, what's the difference between someone blindly following Obama and someone blindly following Rand?

 

[ChChoda]

You ASSUME this statement is undubitably true, but it's not.

You ASSUME Ayn Rand is undubitably true, but she's not.

I assume you're part of this growing movement which espouses Ayn Rand as their savior? And you quote from Fountainhead, ta boot? At least read Atlas Shrugged before you start spouting this objectivist bullshit. You were born in another person's womb! Someone sacrificed for YOU! You were born into a world of sacrifice and human connection. It's the basis of life on this earth. Transcendental ties run among us all, but you think you're wise because you read SOME of Ayn Rand, huh? Do you even understand objectivist philosophy?

I'm amazed by the sheer number of people now blindly quoting Rand (who isn't taken too seriously in academia). We're thinking of teaching a course on her next fall simply because of the demand. I'm all for it simply because I'm tired of know-it-all's quoting her as the ultimate prophet when they don't even understand the foundations upon which her philosophy is built. She uses completely different paradigms in her works, but yet you use our paradigms when assessing her aptitude of applicability. You have a lot to learn my friend. Research Rand and then see what you think.

And tell me, what's the difference between someone blindly following Obama and someone blindly following Rand?

"History always repeats itself", indubitably true, makes me a fool? What, the "always and never should always be avoided" complex? If "always" and "never" should not be used, should they always not be used? Or should they never not be used? Or only sometimes, in which case, history always repeats itself is not a fact, but an assumption, just as your assumption that "history always repeats itself" is an assumption, is an assumption as well. Very interesting.

As for the ability of humans to experience desires, compulsions, etc, has it not all been experienced before. Is not history a manifestation of mans compulsions, in the written form. His compulsion to repeat himself? Is that not all that history is, a repeating of what has already occurred.....

P.S.- If and when a course is offered on Ayn Rand, you'd just LOVE to be the teacher of that course, wouldn't you? You don't have to answer that.

 

[medicineman]

You ASSUME this statement is undubitably true, but it's not.

You ASSUME Ayn Rand is undubitably true, but she's not.

I assume you're part of this growing movement which espouses Ayn Rand as their savior? And you quote from Fountainhead, ta boot? At least read Atlas Shrugged before you start spouting this objectivist bullshit. You were born in another person's womb! Someone sacrificed for YOU! You were born into a world of sacrifice and human connection. It's the basis of life on this earth. Transcendental ties run among us all, but you think you're wise because you read SOME of Ayn Rand, huh? Do you even understand objectivist philosophy?

I'm amazed by the sheer number of people now blindly quoting Rand (who isn't taken too seriously in academia). We're thinking of teaching a course on her next fall simply because of the demand. I'm all for it simply because I'm tired of know-it-all's quoting her as the ultimate prophet when they don't even understand the foundations upon which her philosophy is built. She uses completely different paradigms in her works, but yet you use our paradigms when assessing her aptitude of applicability. You have a lot to learn my friend. Research Rand and then see what you think.

And tell me, what's the difference between someone blindly following Obama and someone blindly following Rand?

Well said. There is no difference except maybe one, he is the president and she was a writer. Blindly, I say no to both. Anyone that blindly follows anyone is, well, blind to themselves. One must consider their circumstances and make judgements based on their reality. The ability to consider others when making choices, comes with maturity. a Child considers only one, himself. Seems like there are a few children on this site.

 

[ChChoda]

Well said. There is no difference except maybe one, he is the president and she was a writer. Blindly, I say no to both. Anyone that blindly follows anyone is, well, blind to themselves. One must consider their circumstances and make judgements based on their reality. The ability to consider others when making choices, comes with maturity. a Child considers only one, himself. Seems like there are a few children on this site.

Ayn, and some more of her objectivist bullshit....

But here you might have noticed something. I said, ‘It stands to reason’. Do you see ? Men have a weapon against you. Reason. So you must be very sure to take it away from them. Cut the props from under it. But be careful. Don’t deny outright. Never deny anything outright, you give your hand away. Don’t say reason is evil – though some have gone that far and with astonishing success. Just say that reason is limited. That there’s something above it. What ? You don’t have to be too clear about it either. The field’s inexhaustible. ‘Instinct’ – ‘Feeling’ – ‘Revelation’ – ‘Divine Intuition’ – ‘Dialectic Materialism’. If you get caught at some crucial point and somebody tells you that your doctrine doesn’t make sense – you’re ready for him. You tell him there’s something above sense. That here he must not try to think, he must feel. He must believe. Suspend reason and you play it deuces wild. Anything goes in any manner you wish whenever you need it. You’ve got him. Can you rule a thinking man ? We don’t want any thinking men."