Grower's group? Research Group?

[Slothrules]

Hi everyone!! Well i have been reading and using this great site for a bit now, it has been a great find!!!! Three new pc games unplayed on desk say so!!
Now to my idea... I have always wanted to do large scale research on my fav plant!! But never had the money to germ 10000 seeds!!
Now i think we all may have the power!!! Simple experments.. definitive answers for us all to use!! What do you all think?
I can think of a couple of the top of my head that would cost nothing but abit of recording

 

[CaveChest]

Hello
What kinda experiments are you thinking?
I'm starting a new grow atm so i'm happy to try something out for you

 

[Slothrules]

Hello
What kinda experiments are you thinking?
I'm starting a new grow atm so i'm happy to try something out for you

Well the one that got me thinking about this was this...

"Is the speed of seed casing split a indicator of the sex of the plant"

This is what made me think of this.. just got some sensi seeds Northern lights seeds, 6 of the seeds cracked after 13 hours the other 4 after 24...

Now this is only ten seeds so results mean nothing but if we can show a trend then..

 

[Slothrules]

If you are keen, i will outline this as a experiment...

Any other ideas from other growers are welcome.. i am a research scientist so can do the design

 

[Ghost420]

no seed sex is determined at seed development.

 

[Slothrules]

no seed sex is determined at seed development.

Show me the reseach..... Statements like that are why there is a need for definitive research...

We are talking about trends... if the first cracking seeds prove to be say 60% more likely to be female, and say the top 10% in size prove to be 80% more likely to be female and the seeds with the more round end prove to be 70% more likely to be a female...
Then we have come up with a way to improve the percentages of females when it comes to doing a new grow by using those 3 indicators ie picking the biggest, round end seeds that crack first.
If i had 100 bag seeds, didnt want that many plants i would find that information useful. Not that i do that, like most people i clone... only grow from seed when i want a new strain or i feel like doing some breeding

 

[CaveChest]

Dude totally agree.

I had a massive argument with someone cause i said something like "i heard aspirin changes the sex of your plant and also femenizes pollen"
A whole bunch of people said "dude thats bullshit" but not one of them could tell me why.
So i tried it and it went hermi, as for the female seeds thats what this grow is all about to see if i was right.
So dude set up some conditions for me to follow and i'll try it out with a couple of seeds.

Peace J

 

[China]

Show me the reseach..... Statements like that are why there is a need for definitive research...

We are talking about trends... if the first cracking seeds prove to be say 60% more likely to be female, and say the top 10% in size prove to be 80% more likely to be female and the seeds with the more round end prove to be 70% more likely to be a female...
Then we have come up with a way to improve the percentages of females when it comes to doing a new grow by using those 3 indicators ie picking the biggest, round end seeds that crack first.
If i had 100 bag seeds, didnt want that many plants i would find that information useful. Not that i do that, like most people i clone... only grow from seed when i want a new strain or i feel like doing some breeding

Seed sex is determined at seed development. That's like saying human babies don't gain gender until after they've popped out of their mother.

I would also like to note that I've had plenty of seeds all open on the same day with no pattern in gender.

I do however support the idea of everyone pitching in with experiments.

I've got two bagseed (probably) sativas that should be coming up in a couple days. I may be able to try something to help.

 

[Ghost420]

i dont think u guys know what i am talking about but ya cannabis is diecious therefore seed sex is determined at seed devlopment ask anyone with a background in botany.

why does asprin not work? for the simple reason that that seed sex is determined at devlopment.

also geroge crevantes will say other wise but hes an idiot.

 

[China]

i dont think u guys know what i am talking about but ya cannabis is diecious therefore seed sex is determined at seed devlopment ask anyone with a background in botany.

why does asprin not work? for the simple reason that that seed sex is determined at devlopment.

also geroge crevantes will say other wise but hes an idiot.

Asprin does work. It doesn't change the sex of the plant, it just causes female plants to hermie.

Why do I always see people ranting about Cervantes? He talks about the simple things and is a good guide for beginning growers.


Here's an idea for an experiment. Since I have two plants coming up, I can do some things that require multiple plants to grow. My idea, what are the benefits of a 8/16 light cycle over a 24/0 cycle, and vice versa.

I just got access to a bit more grow room, so I can make two small veg chambers pretty soon. Once the seeds sprout I can measure their height each day and compare things like node spacing and density.

I can also use clones later on to do the test without having to worry about plant genetics effecting the results.

 

[born2killspam]

The sex is determined at polination, but sex expression is not.. China is correct, I have read more than a few general botany abstracts that support the notion that acetylsalicylic acid disrupts ethylene pathways in a similar fashion to GA or ionic silver solutions, and that is understood to be the mechanism behind inducing typically diocious plants to go monocious.. Different genetics will have different resilience to sex adaptation both early, and late season.. Its commonly believed that great environmental conditions early in veg can tilt the balance toward XX expression, while less desirable conditions later in life can tilt those expressing XX to grow staminate flowers.. It actually makes sense from a propogation of species POV.. Ignoring the fact that this might sound like plants have intelligence, an XX expressing plant that is stressed can fear that available breeding partners will not be able to polinate it, therefore it does what it can to produce its own pollen since male flower growth does not require a ton of effort to achieve.. Similarily, positive conditions early tell XY polinated seedlings that its likely they will be able to take on the bigger job of seed production themselves..
I would personally avoid inducing XX expression via these means though, because those particular genetics are not tightly bound to it, and my hypothesis is that these will be more likely to also grow male flowers.. Merely an opposite form of herming..
Lastly, although it might generally work out for simple classification, the XX/XY system is BS in plants.. Its not even really 100% effective for animals either (a Y chromosome is merely an X chromosome with a minor mutation apparently caused by testosterone iirc), but we tend to diverge from it much less than plants..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis#Mechanisms_of_sex_determination

 

[Slothrules]

The sex is determined at polination, but sex expression is not.. China is correct, I have read more than a few general botany abstracts that support the notion that acetylsalicylic acid disrupts ethylene pathways in a similar fashion to GA or ionic silver solutions, and that is understood to be the mechanism behind inducing typically diocious plants to go monocious.. Different genetics will have different resilience to sex adaptation both early, and late season.. Its commonly believed that great environmental conditions early in veg can tilt the balance toward XX expression, while less desirable conditions later in life can tilt those expressing XX to grow staminate flowers.. It actually makes sense from a propogation of species POV.. Ignoring the fact that this might sound like plants have intelligence, an XX expressing plant that is stressed can fear that available breeding partners will not be able to polinate it, therefore it does what it can to produce its own pollen since male flower growth does not require a ton of effort to achieve.. Similarily, positive conditions early tell XY polinated seedlings that its likely they will be able to take on the bigger job of seed production themselves..
I would personally avoid inducing XX expression via these means though, because those particular genetics are not tightly bound to it, and my hypothesis is that these will be more likely to also grow male flowers.. Merely an opposite form of herming..
Lastly, although it might generally work out for simple classification, the XX/XY system is BS in plants.. Its not even really 100% effective for animals either (a Y chromosome is merely an X chromosome with a minor mutation apparently caused by testosterone iirc), but we tend to diverge from it much less than plants..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis#Mechanisms_of_sex_determination

Hey born2killspam and china, i have to agree with you both... Good ideas I will outline my thoughts a bit more...
So if sex is predetermined and lets say it is for this experiment, and we know that the male plant grows and matures faster.
Then it following that train of thought, i come to the idea the the female plant, due to survival stress, will grow first...
(more than likely will show nothing cant know that till you try)

Now this is a experiment to prove one way or the other, i can argue both sides of this, so time for experiment

The 24/7, 18/6, debate is also one the as a group we could find definitive answers too.. may show, SOG should veg clones in 24/7, and lst growers should veg in 18/7.. Who knows
Together we will!!

 

[Slothrules]

Dude totally agree.

I had a massive argument with someone cause i said something like "i heard aspirin changes the sex of your plant and also femenizes pollen"
A whole bunch of people said "dude thats bullshit" but not one of them could tell me why.
So i tried it and it went hermi, as for the female seeds thats what this grow is all about to see if i was right.
So dude set up some conditions for me to follow and i'll try it out with a couple of seeds.

Peace J

Hey CaveChest, Thanks for the comments.. Conditions for this one are easy... Normal germ method, paper towels, plate on top of another..
All you have to do is.....
1. number seeds
2. record time from placing in water to cracking... This is the only hard part we are looking for when the seed first cracks, before the root tip has come out.
3. Keep growing them till they sex or sex them yourself when you feel like it.
4. keep growing till you have buds.
5. Smoke your buds
6.post your research.

 

[Slothrules]

Asprin does work. It doesn't change the sex of the plant, it just causes female plants to hermie.

Why do I always see people ranting about Cervantes? He talks about the simple things and is a good guide for beginning growers.


Here's an idea for an experiment. Since I have two plants coming up, I can do some things that require multiple plants to grow. My idea, what are the benefits of a 8/16 light cycle over a 24/0 cycle, and vice versa.

I just got access to a bit more grow room, so I can make two small veg chambers pretty soon. Once the seeds sprout I can measure their height each day and compare things like node spacing and density.

I can also use clones later on to do the test without having to worry about plant genetics effecting the results.

Right i have been thinking about a study involving the benefits of 24/7 vs 18/6 for grow styles... I also run more than one clone/veg chamber believe in redundancy

This one will have to be a little more involved, would also like to include clones as well as seeds in this
The outline.
1. germ seeds normal way
2. split seeds into two random groups
3. veg one group under 24/7 light from sprout
4. veg one group under 18/6 light from sprout

The hard part of this one will be recording stats and the period of recording..

Stats to look for...
1. Height of plant
2. Number of nodes
3. Veg mass... this is the real hard one!! even i wont kill a plant for anything but smoke so this one has two parts
3.1 Length of leaf, from tip of leaf to leaf stem node ie where the green starts
3.2 width of leaf at widest point (would like to do a average but too hard)
4. space between nodes

This will also have genius specific 4. wont really mean much unless we know the type of plant indica/sativa

The same process can be followed for clones, will just have to makes sure clones are say within 10% size of each other, with the same amount of nodes and each group is from the same mother.

Hope that all makes sence Any input is welcome!!

 

[born2killspam]

Alot of these light questions have been legitimately studied via other C3 plants.. PM me with an email that can accept a 1.2MB pdf if you want to read an indepth bio-chem write-up on the evolution of chemical reactions involved in photosynthesis..

 

[China]

Both of my seeds have sprouted and they are in separate closets. One with a 24 hour lighting, and another with 16/8. I'll be taking measurements every other day for four weeks. I'll post some results once I get enough data to be worth posting. This strain was slow to start last time I grew it, but it really took off once it got going, so it may be a week or so before there's any noticeable difference.

 

[CaveChest]

Ok....

I'm not sure if i'm retarded or i've got crap seeds but its been close to 4 days and they havnt moved an inch....
I have 2 plates, one over the top of the other and 4 seeds in the middle of them wrapped in tea towels wet with tap water.
Its pretty cold over here but i still think they should have germinated by now.

PEace
J

 

[China]

Ok....

I'm not sure if i'm retarded or i've got crap seeds but its been close to 4 days and they havnt moved an inch....
I have 2 plates, one over the top of the other and 4 seeds in the middle of them wrapped in tea towels wet with tap water.
Its pretty cold over here but i still think they should have germinated by now.

PEace
J

Bagseeds can take a while, or just not want to work at all. Because they weren't grown for the seeds, they're not as viable. I only got 2 out of 8 seeds to germinate for my test.

 

[Slothrules]

Hey CaveChest, sorry to here about your seeds.... How Hot is the room temp? Should be shooting for about 25c-29c i think thats about 79f... your have to look that one up to make sure But then again i havent grown from seed for about 10 years so.... Good luck though!!!! dont give up on them just yet!!

 

[CaveChest]

Thanks Sloth

I havnt given up i'm still trying out seeds. Yea im in AU so its C. 21c is meant to be the optimal and i'm pretty sure thats what the entire house is heated too in winter + the heat of the lights, im pretty sure its not the temperature....

Still the process continues

peace
J