Poor Poor Israel

[medicineman]

For all you Israeli lovers, check this out. I can find thousands of these asccounts all over the net. This is just one. Next time you claim poor poor Israel, think about these children and their parents.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15693.htm

 

[ChChoda]

For all you Israeli lovers, check this out. I can find thousands of these asccounts all over the net. This is just one. Next time you claim poor poor Israel, think about these children and their parents.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15693.htm

I'm starting to hate the Jordanians! What dicks, to turn their backs on their neighbors like that! Disgraceful.

 

[ChChoda]

Check out the Jordan Ministry of Tourism and Antiquity web site medicine man. Looks beautiful, huh? And don't miss the page header, "Jordan, Land of Hospitality." lol

http://www.tourism.jo/inside/Photogallery.asp

 

[medicineman]

Check out the Jordan Ministry of Tourism and Antiquity web site medicine man. Looks beautiful, huh? And don't miss the page header, "Jordan, Land of Hospitality." lol

http://www.tourism.jo/inside/Photogallery.asp

Uhhh, OK, I'm sure If I bite you'll have something to shove up my ass, but this thread wasn't really about Jordan, just about how the Israelis treat their slaves in Palestine. You do know, before the 1948 war that area was known as palestine, not Jordan. The Israelis are actually occupying Palestine and holding the Palestinians in refugee camps. That would be an unbiased view of the situation, since I owe no allegiance to the Palestinians or have no animosity towards the Israelis. The facts are: The Israelis came into power with help from the US with weapons and money to fend off the surrounding Arab nations and in the process, created an underclass of the locals, known as Palestinians in their own lands. A mostly pastoral peaceful people that worked the land and kept to themselves. Now they are basically refugees in fenced in and patrolled zones, with little to none, the ammenities that the average Israeli enjoys. Say, tell me what you would do if you were in their situation, the Palestinians that is?

 

[ChChoda]

Uhhh, OK, I'm sure If I bite you'll have something to shove up my ass, but this thread wasn't really about Jordan, just about how the Israelis treat their slaves in Palestine. You do know, before the 1948 war that area was known as palestine, not Jordan. The Israelis are actually occupying Palestine and holding the Palestinians in refugee camps. That would be an unbiased view of the situation, since I owe no allegiance to the Palestinians or have no animosity towards the Israelis. The facts are: The Israelis came into power with help from the US with weapons and money to fend off the surrounding Arab nations and in the process, created an underclass of the locals, known as Palestinians in their own lands. A mostly pastoral peaceful people that worked the land and kept to themselves. Now they are basically refugees in fenced in and patrolled zones, with little to none, the ammenities that the average Israeli enjoys. Say, tell me what you would do if you were in their situation, the Palestinians that is?

What came first, the Jew or the Muslim? (it's not a rhetorical question)

Quote from Charles Krauthammer - The Weekly Standard, May 11, 1998

"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store."


http://www.science.co.il/Israel-history.asp​

 

[ChChoda]

Now they are basically refugees in fenced in and patrolled zones, with little to none, the ammenities that the average Israeli enjoys. Say, tell me what you would do if you were in their situation, the Palestinians that is?

Demand the Jordanians take down their fences, of course.

 

[medicineman]

Demand the Jordanians take down their fences, of course.

So, the Palestinians should be dependent on Jordan for their existence. Forget that the Jews came in on boats thousands at a time untill there were hundreds of thousands and displaced the palestinians. I'll give them their ancestral rights, the ones that lived there before 1948, but to bring all the european Jews there to re-populate their "Homeland", while relegating the other occupants of the land to slave status seems a little wrong, wouldn't you concur? If everyone went back to their ancestral lands, The USA would be pretty unpopulated, and some ancestral lands would be way overburdened with ancesters, may even have to push out or enslave all non-ancestors. Just where in the hell should the Palestinians have to go when their ancestral homeland is currently called Israel. You say Jordan, why? Why do the Jordanians owe the palestinians any property? What the Israelis have done and are doing to the Palestinians, is every bit as bad as what the US did to the native Americans. Maybe they should allow Casinos in the west bank and Gaza.

 

[ChChoda]

You say Jordan, why?

To be hospitable? So they, the Palestinians, aren't so cramped?

How about this. Jordan gives a huge chunk of land to the Palestinians. Then, Saudi Arabia and Syria each give a large chunk of land to Jordan. Then,....well, you should get the idea. Or should Israel just do like Costner in Water World?

 

[ruderalis88]

it's not about Jews and Muslims (Judaism is an older religion than Islam, but the religious beliefs of ancient Egypt/Greece/Rome are even older - doesn't make them much more or less correct). It should not be about religion, but about nationality. It is about Israel bullying the surrounding Arab nations. Many would agree when i say that Israel was allowed to be created because of a great feeling of guilt by the international community over the treatment the Jewish people had been subjected to throughout the Second World War. The US are not solely to blame, although they were most certainly involved; every UN country in 1948 had a hand in it too.

This was followed by a bit of this and a bit of that, but the end word must be that Palestine is now essentially the world's largest open air prison. The people of Palestine DO NOT DESERVE the treatment they receive. Israel's government needs to be held to account for its terrible crimes but I doubt that will happen any time soon. It is a sad fact, but Muslims are the new Jews in terms of racism and unfair international opinion.

Yasser Arafat once said "I come bearing the olive branch of peace in one hand, and in the other a machine gun. Do not allow me to drop the olive branch"
It was the fault of the Israeli government that violence became the main language spoken between the two nations.

And Jordan has really very little to do with it. Just as Iraq has really very little to do with Iran and vice versa. Just as Spain has really very little to do with France.


Good thread medicineman.

 

[ruderalis88]

To be hospitable? So they, the Palestinians, aren't so cramped?

How about this. Jordan gives a huge chunk of land to the Palestinians. Then, Saudi Arabia and Syria each give a large chunk of land to Jordan. Then,....well, you should get the idea. Or should Israel just do like Costner in Water World?

or Israel could fuck off and give back the land they stole, the land which was not part of their initial boundaries. Why should the Arab nations have to give up their land? If sea level rose and made it unfeasible for the state of New York to be lived on, i'm sure that no one would expect each of the adjoining states to give up a proportion of their land. You don't just move over a bit, it doesn't work that way.

The complication is that these injustices have been allowed to go on for too long. There are now Israeli families living on Palestinian land who have been there for 2 generations, who regard it as their own homes and territory.

 

[ChChoda]

Yasser Arafat once said "I come bearing the olive branch of peace in one hand, and in the other a machine gun. Do not allow me to drop the olive branch"
It was the fault of the Israeli government that violence became the main language spoken between the two nations.

Was that Hitler quote supposed to be an offer of peace, or a threat?

http://www.masada2000.org/Arafat-Husseini.html

 

[ChChoda]

Why should the Arab nations have to give up their land? If sea level rose and made it unfeasible for the state of New York to be lived on, i'm sure that no one would expect each of the adjoining states to give up a proportion of their land. You don't just move over a bit, it doesn't work that way.

So what is a border if not a man made concoction composed of man made lines on a man made map? So why can't Arabs re-draw these man made lines to help there fellow men? Or are Arabs devoid of compassion, just as you say the Israelis are?

 

[hookbills]

So, the Palestinians should be dependent on Jordan for their existence. Forget that the Jews came in on boats thousands at a time untill there were hundreds of thousands and displaced the palestinians. I'll give them their ancestral rights, the ones that lived there before 1948, but to bring all the european Jews there to re-populate their "Homeland", while relegating the other occupants of the land to slave status seems a little wrong, wouldn't you concur? If everyone went back to their ancestral lands, The USA would be pretty unpopulated, and some ancestral lands would be way overburdened with ancesters, may even have to push out or enslave all non-ancestors. Just where in the hell should the Palestinians have to go when their ancestral homeland is currently called Israel. You say Jordan, why? Why do the Jordanians owe the palestinians any property? What the Israelis have done and are doing to the Palestinians, is every bit as bad as what the US did to the native Americans. Maybe they should allow Casinos in the west bank and Gaza.

Jordan was given to the Palestinians at the end of WW2 at the same time the UN formed the nation of Israel. The reason the Palestinians want Israels land is because they have turned that piece of desert onto an oasis. Jordan is their homeland and they should go back to it

 

[ruderalis88]

Was that Hitler quote supposed to be an offer of peace, or a threat?

http://www.masada2000.org/Arafat-Husseini.html

It's very misleading to simply switch the name of one person who's politics were abhorrent to you with the name of another. If i started referring to Bin Laden as Hussein i would be just as misleading, no matter how evil any of them are/were, or are/were regarded to be.

As an aside, i slightly misquoted the man and that this
“I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not..."
was the correct wording (after translation i believe).

Most of the article you linked there was interesting and at least in part true but it reads like propaganda, the last two paragraphs appear to be nothing much more than hearsay and the author's opinion. It's slightly yellow journalism and just not proper historical writing. The writer hasn't backed up his final claims, just asserted them. In fact, the website you linked (particular article regardless) is specifically anti-arab. The unhappy thing about the internet is that no matter what anyone believes they can find a few pages to back themselves up. Doesn't make it true and it doesn't make it right.

In response to your question

"So what is a border if not a man made concoction composed of man made lines on a man made map? So why can't Arabs re-draw these man made lines to help there fellow men? Or are Arabs devoid of compassion, just as you say the Israelis are?"

I would say that while yes, that is what borders are, it also over simplifies the issue. The people who live within whichever borders are in question must also be taken into account, so i nod to my previous statement
"The complication is that these injustices have been allowed to go on for too long. There are now Israeli families living on Palestinian land who have been there for 2 generations, who regard it as their own homes and territory."

I should have expanded to say that it would be unfair to these particular Israelis to evict them from what they see as their land, but it was unfair of their govt to evict the Palestinians in the first place to make room for the Israeli's forefathers. My main beef is not with the people of Israel, even less so with the people of the Jewish religion (i actually see it as one of the least ridiculous religions) as they are distinct. My beef is with the Israeli government, and the govts of the rest of the western countries who seem to think it's ok for Israel to repeatedly break international law, e.g. the bombing of the Gaza strip early this year.

There is no quick fix in the middle east. I do fail to see why you think it is the Arabs who should have to give up their territory. As childish as it may seem to others reading this, i am a firm believer in the arguments "we were here first" and "they started it" as fairly good indicators of who may be, however slightly more innocent in a war which has lived so long. Were i to word these statements differently they may read as much more admirable.

 

[ChChoda]

As childish as it may seem to others reading this, i am a firm believer in the arguments "we were here first" and "they started it" as fairly good indicators of who may be, however slightly more innocent in a war which has lived so long. Were i to word these statements differently they may read as much more admirable.

The Israelis were there first and the British started it. Does that make Israel easier to accept?

 

[ruderalis88]

The Israelis were there first and the British started it. Does that make Israel easier to accept?

I will never find Israel easy to accept as long as their government see fit to murder innocent civilians, including children, and bomb hospitals and schools.

I may have been ambiguous earlier - i don't think the entire state of Israel should be abolished. I think the people of Palestine should be allowed back onto their land and that the should be treated fairly, with dignity and respect. They are not second-rate citizens of the world and they do not deserve to be imprisoned and shot at like fish in a barrel.

State your sources for your claims. If you're talking about the Israelites of Canaan and Egypt, who are thought to have been turned into "The lost tribes of Israel" by the Assyrians in approx 720 BC, my opinion is that not all history from that time can be verified and that which can is vague at best.

If you're talking about the "Land of Israel" as in the Bible and presumably the Torah, then i disregard religious writings as historical fact. Beliefs and faith are not the same as fact or truth.

The British didn't start it until '48, so i don't think both your statements can be simultaneously true. And while yes, they did, every other western country has allowed it to continue by not forcing the two nations into and agreement (i realise this contradicts the "they started it" rule but just because i think that counts for something, doesn't mean i think it's the only thing that does)

My opinions on the matter in question obviously are quite different to yours, i've more or less run out of stuff that i actually know about to say and i refuse to start spouting the results of google searches.

In fact, i might even +rep you for being the first person on this forum with whom i've had a reasonably sensible debate without it deteriorating into an insult slinging competition. Good work on not being an arsewipe, even though i disagree with your opinions.

 

[ChChoda]

I will never find Israel easy to accept as long as their government see fit to murder innocent civilians, including children, and bomb hospitals and schools.

I may have been ambiguous earlier - i don't think the entire state of Israel should be abolished. I think the people of Palestine should be allowed back onto their land and that the should be treated fairly, with dignity and respect. They are not second-rate citizens of the world and they do not deserve to be imprisoned and shot at like fish in a barrel.

State your sources for your claims. If you're talking about the Israelites of Canaan and Egypt, who are thought to have been turned into "The lost tribes of Israel" by the Assyrians in approx 720 BC, my opinion is that not all history from that time can be verified and that which can is vague at best.

If you're talking about the "Land of Israel" as in the Bible and presumably the Torah, then i disregard religious writings as historical fact. Beliefs and faith are not the same as fact or truth.

The British didn't start it until '48, so i don't think both your statements can be simultaneously true. And while yes, they did, every other western country has allowed it to continue by not forcing the two nations into and agreement (i realise this contradicts the "they started it" rule but just because i think that counts for something, doesn't mean i think it's the only thing that does)

My opinions on the matter in question obviously are quite different to yours, i've more or less run out of stuff that i actually know about to say and i refuse to start spouting the results of google searches.

In fact, i might even +rep you for being the first person on this forum with whom i've had a reasonably sensible debate without it deteriorating into an insult slinging competition. Good work on not being an arsewipe, even though i disagree with your opinions.

my two cents....

​

$19.99 each
Genuine 2000 year old From Ancient Israel ​

You will receive one fine condition ALEXANDER JANNAEUS era.​

Bronze Coins [prutah] Leptons struck between 103 BC to 76 CE This coin was struck in Israel 80 years before the 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 C.E. Coin is approx dime size or slightly smaller http://www.milechai.com/judaica/jewishartifacts.html

 

[ruderalis88]

oh i can't be bothered going into every question that raises but the main ones are

what proof of authenticity is there?

and what about the years before then?

i'm an incredibly skeptical person. i actually am done now...honest

 

[ChChoda]

oh i can't be bothered going into every question that raises but the main ones are

what proof of authenticity is there?

and what about the years before then?

i'm an incredibly skeptical person. i actually am done now...honest

Not so fast...my turn. What proof do you have that Israel even exists? Have you ever personally been there? Will you at least concede the possibility that the pictures and videos we have been shown could have been filmed on a Hollywood sound stage, or on the moon for that matter?

Any of you skeptics ever send money to the Palestinian cause? Have you been to the place? And it doesn't count if you took an "overnight flight" or you were "clouded in" en route. How do you know, for sure, that it isn't actually a Zionist plot to extort money from liberals?...

 

[LiEBE420]

lets move em all to texas.