In need of some HELP.

parkercky

Well-Known Member
I am in need of some HELP. Some of my fan leaves are getting huge and it seems like on certain plants the stem almost cannot support the weight of the leaf. I watered them strait water last night for the first time in 3 days last night and they seemed to have accepted it well. It made the leaves not so droopy on them. I just tested my ph of my water and realized that it is around 7.5 ( I thought it was neutral) so I def need to ph down before I water right? I think I should be aiming for 6.5-6.8?
Any suggestions on how to increase stem and leaf rigidity while keeping it as all natural as possible? I think I am going to make a tea soon any suggestions? Sorry for all the questions but I have one more, what is the best way to foilage feed and with what? I am currently using water, org fish emulsion, and org black earth, and sheep manure mixed in.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/211709-parkerckys-first-grow-organic-afghan.html
 

parkercky

Well-Known Member
You need fertilizers with more potassium (spelling) Check out this link, should help. What part of the world are you? How much sun do you get? Knowing this info will be helpfull

http://www.cleanairgardening.com/npkexplanation.html

Thanks man, I am in Eastern Canada , the temps hover around 20c to 35c in the summer they get a good amount of sun where they are but it has been very cloudy lately, my grow journal is link in my signature.

I don't need NPK explained to me, I am an avid marine and fresh fish keeper, but you are probably right about the P and I just don't much about marijuana chemistry, so this is def appreciated. + reps.
 

Buster 420

Active Member
Foliar feeding outdoors is a waste of time. Plants take up nutrients through there roots. Only gas, Co2, O2 and H2O is exchanged through leafs.
 

MrFishy

Well-Known Member
]Foliar feeding outdoors is a waste of time.[/I] Plants take up nutrients through there roots. Only gas, Co2, O2 and H2O is exchanged through leafs.
Aren't there hundred's/thousands of products engineered to be applied directly to lawns and gardens simply by spraying the foliage?
 

Buster 420

Active Member
And if they said spray the roots you wouldn't understand. Most products used on leafs are for something else not feeding. Time to review polar vs. non polar.
 

parkercky

Well-Known Member
I love how you down talked wiki then quote a link from it lol. You guys are confusing me haha, I always believed that plant and animal cells were semi-permeable? Lets just say your both right lol.
Peace.
 

MrFishy

Well-Known Member
It's always hard to confirm a misunderstood (or stubborn) mistake. I don't see that happening here. Too much pride, not enough real experience.
Let the er's and uhs begin.
 

Buster 420

Active Member
I quoted wikipedia because there is some good info but not exactly a credible source. Lack of experience or education is not my problem.

So can anybody tell me exactly how nutrients get into the leaf? How polar substances pass through the waxy coating then through polar cell walls?

I found a few abstracts but not the full article.

Essential plant nutrients are mainly applied to soil and plant foliage for achieving maximum economic yields. Soil application method is more common and most effective for nutrients, which required in higher amounts. However, under certain circumstances, foliar fertilization is more economic and effective. Foliar symptoms, soil and plant tissue tests, and crop growth responses are principal nutrient disorder diagnostic techniques. Soil applications of fertilizers are mainly done on the basis of soil tests, whereas foliar nutrient applications are mainly done on the basis of visual foliar symptoms or plant tissue tests. Hence, correct diagnosis of nutrient deficiency is fundamental for successful foliar fertilization. In addition, there are some more requirements for successful foliar fertilization. Foliar fertilization requires higher leaf area index for absorbing applied nutrient solution in sufficient amount, it may be necessary to have more than one application depending on severity of nutrient deficiency. Nutrient concentration and day temperature should be optimal to avoid leaf burning and fertilizer source should be soluble in water to be more effective. Foliar fertilization of crops can complement soil fertilization. If foliar fertilization is mixed with postemergence herbicides, insecticides, or fungicides, the probability of yield response could be increased and cost of application can be reduced. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]

Fageria, N. K. et al. "Foliar Fertilization of Crop Plants." Journal of Plant Nutrition 32, no. 6 (June 2009): 1044-1064. Academic Search Premier, EBSCOhost (accessed July 18, 2009).

Foliar fertilization is an agricultural practice of increasing importance in practical terms. Since nutrient sprays are mostly applied as water solutions, the focus of the article was placed on the penetration of ionic, polar solutes through the leaf surface, although the mechanisms of cuticular penetration of lipophilics are also taken into consideration. In theory, application of foliar nutrient sprays may indeed be a more target-oriented and environmentally friendly fertilization method since nutrients are directly delivered to the target organism in limited amounts, thereby helping to reduce the environmental impact associated with soil fertilization. However, response to foliar sprays is often variable and not reproducible due to the existing lack of knowledge of many factors related to the penetration of the leaf-applied solution. To overcome the current “spray and pray” situation, there is a need to critically analyze the major factors involved and the existing experimental approaches to safely assess the penetration mechanisms, which is the final aim of this review. Beginning with the significance of foliar fertilization in agriculture, a historical overview regarding foliar uptake related studies is given, with especial emphasis on the penetration of solutes through the cuticle and stomata. The existing models of cuticular and stomatal uptake are analyzed separately considering among other factors the physico-chemistry of the solution including the role of adjuvants and the effect of the environment. Methods employed to estimate the process of cuticular and stomatal penetration of solutes are critically assessed. Finally, conclusions related to multidisciplinary research perspectives for improving the efficiency of foliar sprays are drawn. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]

Fernández, V., and T. Eichert. "Uptake of Hydrophilic Solutes Through Plant Leaves: Current State of Knowledge and Perspectives of Foliar Fertilization." Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences 28, no. 1/2 (January 2009): 36-68. Academic Search Premier, EBSCOhost (accessed July 18, 2009).
 

parkercky

Well-Known Member
This is what I could find. I hope this is what you are looking for. We could all probably quote external sources all day long but the fact is I am very inexperienced in growing marijuana. I am only looking for help and advice while learning as much as I can in the process. I hope everyone on here keeps an open mind, and realizes there is always more to learn.
Peace.




The Process of Foliar Fertilization

Most leaves have stomata either only on the underside or on both sides of the leaf which enable gas to be exchanged for photosynthesis and respiration as well as releasing water vapor in stomatal transpiration. The leaf with its epidermis can also function as an organ that absorbs and excretes water and substances which may be dissolved in it.


Since foliar absorption is limited because of the relative barrier of the cuticle it is not possible to solely feed plants via the leaves. For this reason the most effective use of foliar fertilization is as a rapid and effective method of supplying the micro nutrients. It can, however also be used to satisfy acute needs with lower concentrations of macronutrients and biuret-free urea is often used to supply nitrogen via the leaves.
SOURCE: http://www.simplyhydro.com/foliar_feeding.htm


Claims for, or against, the effectiveness of foliar feeding of plants range from "Foliar applied nutrients are one hundred to five hundred times more effective than root nutrition" (3) to "Nearly all plants are capable of absorbing nutrients through the leaves. This works well for nutrients that are needed in small quantities, but is very expensive and not very effective for nutrients that are needed in large quantities." (11) For large quantities of nutrients to be absorbed, foliar feeding must be applied far more frequently than root feeding. (6)

As well as a lack of concensus as to it’s effectiveness, the mechanism by which nutrients enter the leaves is in question. "The moisture is absorbed straight into the leaf via the leaf cuticle, through the stomata" (4) according to one source. Stomata are located on the underside of the leaf. Stomata are open during the day and close at night. Another source (6) claims that, in the case of turf grass, "stomates play no role in foliar feeding" but that fertilizer is "absorbed through tiny cracks or pores in the surface of the leaf surface in the wax layer. These pores are very, very small tubes, and are lined with water. They are called transcuticular pores." (6)
Whatever the mechanism, there is agreement that nutrients, or at least some nutrients, can be absorbed by leaves. Some sources indicate that plants benefit sigificantly only from absorbtion of elements such as Zn, Mn, Fe, etc. and that foliar feeding of N, P and K is not an efficient method. (11) Even Zn, Mn and Fe may need to be chelated to pass through the tiny pores of a leaf. (6) The most widely agreed upon benefit of foliar feeding is that nutrients can more quickly reach all parts of the plant than by root feeding. This was established in a well known experiment performed in the 1950s by the noted horticulturist, H.B. Tukey at Michigan State Universtiy, using radioisotopes to trace the movement of nutrients through plants. (9) So foliar feeding may be useful for quick correction of some nutritional deficiencies in crops.
SOURCE: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lab/msg041655342430.html
 

theloadeddragon

Well-Known Member
foliar feeding is not the same for all plants. I said not necessary, but it is benificial. If you can foliar feed during flowering without damaging the developing flowers, it will benefit your crop slightly as well, :). Its crucial to administer extra control when foliar feeding your plants as its easier to burn or rot your plants, timing and other conditions are very important. For me, its just not worth the hassle....
 
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