Tax on rich for healthcare.

[TheBrutalTruth]

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/canuglytruth.html

Socialized medicine has meant rationed care and lack of innovation. Small wonder Canadians are looking to the market. Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

 

[NoDrama]

Let's see, we have 50 million uninsured...so that number would go up under a government subsidized sytem? In what way would things get worse, and why?

Umm cuz everything the government gets involved in goes in the crapper? Soon everyone will be taxed for it, why must the rich always be compelled to take it up the ass? Doesn't seem very fair to me that just because you have more money that you should take care of poor people who have none and those same folk will provide nothing for you. Goverment sponsored theft if you ask me.

 

[hom36rown]

Because the uninsured, being forced to have insurance would no longer be able to afford to get healthcare. For at least the fifth (possibly the tenth) time this irrational, idiotic attempt to equivocate Health Care and Health Insurance is a sign of a lack of intelligence, a lack of critical-thinking ability, and a lack of willingness to ask that most human of all questions, "Why?"

Of course, the answer as to why, is that the government (specifically the Democrats) desire to reward their supporters in the insurance industry with monopolies via government interference in the markets.

As far as how this benefits any one. It doesn't. As one of the 50 Million "Uninsured" I have no interest in insurance, I'm quite capable of paying out of pocket, because medical care (for preventative medicine) really isn't that expensive. $250/year for vision is what I pay to my eye doctor, another $500 to the dentists. Suddenly being obligated through the threat of force, coercion and fraud to have insurance would be a lot more expensive than the minimal amount of health care I need, and it would of course not provide health care.

Though, I must admit that I do not know how many of the 50 Million "Uninsured" are like me, and thus can not speak for them, but I would imagine that a good chunk of them are entreprenuers, executives, and other people that are trying to make their own path, thus the government's imbecilic, self-centered, power-mongering attempts to force them to get health insurance is the typical tyrannical pursuits of socialists and all that follow that ideology of stupidity.

Most are entrepreneurs or executives? LOL, now if that doesnt diplay " alack of intelligence, a lack of critical-thinking ability, and a lack of willingness to ask that most human of all questions, "Why?", then I don't don't know what does. You're too much.

Let's see how capable you are of paying out of pocket if you get cancer or have some sort of accident.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Most are entrepreneurs or executives? LOL, now if that doesnt diplay " alack of intelligence, a lack of critical-thinking ability, and a lack of willingness to ask that most human of all questions, "Why?", then I don't don't know what does. You're too much.

Let's see how capable you are of paying out of pocket if you get cancer or have some sort of accident.

And what do you think they are, impoverished? If that was the case there's medicaid, you dolt.

 

[hom36rown]

Do you have a couple hundred thousand dollars laying around, just in case you get cancer TBT?

 

[jfgordon1]

i don't like forced charity...

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Do you have a couple hundred thousand dollars laying around, just in case you get cancer TBT?

If I get cancer, I'll die with out treatment. From what I understand the side-effects of the shit that the pharmaceuticals put people on are worse than the actual cancer. I'll go with dignity.

 

[hom36rown]

i don't like forced charity...

Is paying for schools, police and fire departments, libraries, the postal service, etc. forced charity?

 

[hom36rown]

why should you have to pay to put a fire out at someone else's house, why should you pay for other people's kids to go to school...is this your logic?

 

[jfgordon1]

I believe a little taxing is necessary for examples you gave above. I'll pay my .02 to help out society. However, the line has to be drawn somewhere...

 

[hom36rown]

So its not forced charity if you're paying for education, but it is for healthcare? Or are you advocating forced charity as a necessity to society?

 

[jfgordon1]

So its not forced charity if you're paying for education, but it is for healthcare? Or are you advocating forced charity as a necessity to society?

No, it is forced charity if you're paying for education. I believe forced charity is necessary to an extent. We need our roads repaved.. we need police etc.

EDIT: a tad bit of socialism isnt a bad thing. Were at about 39% of taxes right now... you make $100,000 a year. Government takes $39,000 from you. I'm donating enough...

 

[Jerry Garcia]

I think you guys are missing the point here entirely.

I am a graduate student pursuing a master's degree in a specialized field. I pay taxes. I don't earn enough money to live off. I have to take out loans to pay for everything.

I don't have health insurance. I can't afford it. If I get sick, I can't go to the doctor.

The reason why is privatized insurance. Insurance companies exist to make a profit. They cannot by definition offer affordable health care because it would mean they don't make a profit.

But the government can. The government doesn't need to operate on a profit-based system, and can therefore fund affordable insurance with the aid of taxpayer money.

If you make $5,000,000 a year, I think you should have to pay higher taxes to support this initiative. Our current free-market system allows certain individuals to make ridiculous amounts of money...the least they can do is give back one percent of that to help the general welfare of our country.

And we could alleviate a huge amount of the medical issues in this country if people would take a few small steps to live healthier lives...for example, stop drinking 64 ounce soft drinks with every meal! Why do you think diabetes is the fastest growing disease in this country? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...and we all know a little about ounces and pounds around here!

Ultimately, my point is this--under the current system, I can't get insurance. If the government can provide me a low-cost alternative, something profit-based private insurance companies cannot, who are you to say it's a bad idea, or too expensive?

Am I not worth it?

 

[hom36rown]

No, it is forced charity if you're paying for education. I believe forced charity is necessary to an extent. We need our roads repaved.. we need police etc.

EDIT: a tad bit of socialism isnt a bad thing. Were at about 39% of taxes right now... you make $100,000 a year. Government takes $39,000 from you. I'm donating enough...

39% is the top bracket, you have to make more that 100 grand to be taxed 39%. It would be more like 28%, but I agree, we should not raise taxes.

What we need is subjective. Education, the postal service, roads...you could argue that all of these things are not necessary or could be provided by the market. We don't need publicly funded education, nations have existed without it for thousands of years...but most would agree that society is better off when everyone is given the opportunity to an education...and that is the idea behind universal health care.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

I think you guys are missing the point here entirely.

I am a graduate student pursuing a master's degree in a specialized field. I pay taxes. I don't earn enough money to live off. I have to take out loans to pay for everything.

Obviously it is a totally useless field if you aren't earning enough money to make a living off of a bachelor's degree.


I don't have health insurance. I can't afford it. If I get sick, I can't go to the doctor.

The reason why is privatized insurance. Insurance companies exist to make a profit. They cannot by definition offer affordable health care because it would mean they don't make a profit.

Let me explain this to you in really simple terms, because I am convinced that you will not understand it, unless I do. Health Insurance is not Health Care. Do you understand the difference between them?

As far as your whining about not having health insurance, and thus it preventing you from getting medical care, stop making me laugh. I don't have medical insurance, and I'm not having a problem paying for medical care. Of course, I am paying out of pocket, but I'm not going to whine about it, because I'd much rather pay out of pocket, then have to go through the inconvenience of dealing with either a private or public health insurance company.

But the government can. The government doesn't need to operate on a profit-based system, and can therefore fund affordable insurance with the aid of taxpayer money.

No entity can operate at a loss indefinitely, not even the government. Sooner or later the debtors (Chinese) are going to either demand cash for their t-bonds, or they are going to dump them on the markets, and when that happens the house of Cards that the United States has built will collapse. The government will find itself in a crisis that makes this recession, and the Great Depression look like a joke. The belief that the government can operate at a loss demonstrates a level of gross stupidity not seen since FDR and Keynes.

If you make $5,000,000 a year, I think you should have to pay higher taxes to support this initiative. Our current free-market system allows certain individuals to make ridiculous amounts of money...the least they can do is give back one percent of that to help the general welfare of our country.

They already give back way more than that, dumb ass. Perhaps you are ignorant of the fact that they are the one's that actually provide a great many of the jobs in the United States? Thus they give back to their community by hiring people. To argue that they should have to give back even more is an argument of imbecility. Personally, if I was a businessman, I'd laugh my ass off, and close up shop right now. Especially if I knew that the community where I was located at was full of imbeciles like you that believed that I owed them more than I was already contributing.

And we could alleviate a huge amount of the medical issues in this country if people would take a few small steps to live healthier lives...for example, stop drinking 64 ounce soft drinks with every meal! Why do you think diabetes is the fastest growing disease in this country? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...and we all know a little about ounces and pounds around here!

A better solution would be for the government to butt out of everyone's lives, and stop violating the Constitution. Then there would be no debate about this, because no one would expect the government to take care of them. I got advice for you too, GROW UP!

Ultimately, my point is this--under the current system, I can't get insurance. If the government can provide me a low-cost alternative, something profit-based private insurance companies cannot, who are you to say it's a bad idea, or too expensive?

Am I not worth it?

Or are you to demand to benefit from the use of force and coercion to commit extortion against those that do business here?

No, you're not worth it, you're not worth the air you breathe, leave this nation and go back home.

Too damn lazy and incompetent to earn your own damn path, to full of cowardice to stand on your own two damn feet, too full of hubris and arrogance to understand that the system you are supporting is nothing more than a system of slavery and involuntary servitude.

And to cap it all off, you are the very definition of greed, with a loathesome desire to steal what other people have earned for your benefit.

 

[Rob Roy]

We would have plenty of money for healthcare if we did not spend it on, say, policing the world, or giving billions to Israel and other countries in foreign aid, fighting the war on drugs, etc. etc.....theres money out there. Also, private insurance could still exist...so those with money can still get their cancer treatment or what have you, if there were indeed rationing. But there is no reason whatsoever that we should not have enough money to provide healthcare.

I Fixed your post for you.

We'd have plenty of money if the government stayed the fuck out of our lives. If people want to cooperate and VOLUNTARILY contribute to healthcare we'd still be free. There is no reason whatsoever for the government to steal or extort from anyone rich or poor.

 

[Rob Roy]

Is paying for schools, police and fire departments, libraries, the postal service, etc. forced charity?

Quite often yes.

Follow the extortion chain to the end.
If you do not pay, what happens? Force.

 

[Rob Roy]

why should you have to pay to put a fire out at someone else's house, why should you pay for other people's kids to go to school...is this your logic?

You shouldn't be forced to do anything as long as you harm nobody. That doesn't mean I wouldn't put your house out if it were on fire. I don't think I need to be forced to contribute to anything though, nor should you.

Public schools are run by bureaucrats interested in protecting their jobs. Why do home schoolers consistently score higher? Why should my home that I own, be taken from me by force if I refuse to be extorted via taxation? Where is the good in this? I'm not stopping anyone from forming their own school or not...why must I be forced to comply with your DEMANDS when I demand nothing from you? Who is the agressor? Is your logic that of an aggressor that knows what's best for me, willing to harm me when I do you no harm?

 

[Rob Roy]

I think you guys are missing the point here entirely.

I am a graduate student pursuing a master's degree in a specialized field. I pay taxes. I don't earn enough money to live off. I have to take out loans to pay for everything.

I don't have health insurance. I can't afford it. If I get sick, I can't go to the doctor.

The reason why is privatized insurance. Insurance companies exist to make a profit. They cannot by definition offer affordable health care because it would mean they don't make a profit.

But the government can. The government doesn't need to operate on a profit-based system, and can therefore fund affordable insurance with the aid of taxpayer money.

If you make $5,000,000 a year, I think you should have to pay higher taxes to support this initiative. Our current free-market system allows certain individuals to make ridiculous amounts of money...the least they can do is give back one percent of that to help the general welfare of our country.

And we could alleviate a huge amount of the medical issues in this country if people would take a few small steps to live healthier lives...for example, stop drinking 64 ounce soft drinks with every meal! Why do you think diabetes is the fastest growing disease in this country? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...and we all know a little about ounces and pounds around here!

Ultimately, my point is this--under the current system, I can't get insurance. If the government can provide me a low-cost alternative, something profit-based private insurance companies cannot, who are you to say it's a bad idea, or too expensive?

Am I not worth it?

Who is responsible for your life? You or me? I am responsible for my life. I voluntarily help others, alot, by my choice. If I knew you I would consider helping you, however if I am forced to, I would die before I allow you or others like you to steal from me or enslave me.

What right do you have to anything of mine? None. If I am hungry and have no money may I enter your house, make a sandwich, sleep in your bed, wear your clothes? Am I not worth it?

If the government can provide you insurance, where will the money come from? Despite your rationalizations to the contrary, it will be stolen from someone.

What are we having for dinner tonight and could you please do the laundry? I wore your last pair of clean socks.

 

[ChChoda]

Who is responsible for your life? You or me? I am responsible for my life. I voluntarily help others, alot, by my choice. If I knew you I would consider helping you, however if I am forced to, I would die before I allow you or others like you to steal from me or enslave me.

What right do you have to anything of mine? None. If I am hungry and have no money may I enter your house, make a sandwich, sleep in your bed, wear your clothes? Am I not worth it?

If the government can provide you insurance, where will the money come from? Despite your rationalizations to the contrary, it will be stolen from someone.

What are we having for dinner tonight and could you please do the laundry? I wore your last pair of clean socks.