Tax on rich for healthcare.

Rob Roy said:

Who is responsible for your life? You or me? I am responsible for my life. I voluntarily help others, alot, by my choice. If I knew you I would consider helping you, however if I am forced to, I would die before I allow you or others like you to steal from me or enslave me.

What right do you have to anything of mine? None. If I am hungry and have no money may I enter your house, make a sandwich, sleep in your bed, wear your clothes? Am I not worth it?

If the government can provide you insurance, where will the money come from? Despite your rationalizations to the contrary, it will be stolen from someone.

What are we having for dinner tonight and could you please do the laundry? I wore your last pair of clean socks.

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All righty Rob Roy...I can not put it any better than this.

If this is too many words for you, the full audio of the address is HERE. The video can be viewed online at www.whitehouse.gov.

WASHINGTON – In his weekly address, President Barack Obama called on Congress to seize this opportunity – one that may not come again for decades – and finally pass health care reform. With families unable to keep up with skyrocketing costs, premiums rising three times faster than wages, businesses shedding jobs, and deficits piling up every year, reform simply cannot wait. The American people and the American economy need reform that improves care, lowers costs, strengthens businesses, and gives families the choices and security they deserve.


Prepared Remarks of President Barack Obama
Weekly Address
Saturday, July 18th, 2009

Right now in Washington, our Senate and House of Representatives are both debating proposals for health insurance reform. Today, I want to speak with you about the stakes of this debate, for our people and for the future of our nation.
This is an issue that affects the health and financial well-being of every single American and the stability of our entire economy.

It’s about every family unable to keep up with soaring out of pocket costs and premiums rising three times faster than wages. Every worker afraid of losing health insurance if they lose their job, or change jobs. Everyone who’s worried that they may not be able to get insurance or change insurance if someone in their family has a pre-existing condition.

It’s about a woman in Colorado who told us that when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, her insurance company – the one she’d paid over $700 a month to – refused to pay for her treatment. She had to use up her retirement funds to save her own life.

It’s about a man from Maryland who sent us his story – a middle class college graduate whose health insurance expired when he changed jobs. During that time, he needed emergency surgery, and woke up $10,000 in debt – debt that has left him unable to save, buy a home, or make a career change.

It’s about every business forced to shut their doors, or shed jobs, or ship them overseas. It’s about state governments overwhelmed by Medicaid, federal budgets consumed by Medicare, and deficits piling higher year after year.

This is the status quo. This is the system we have today. This is what the debate in Congress is all about: Whether we’ll keep talking and tinkering and letting this problem fester as more families and businesses go under, and more Americans lose their coverage. Or whether we’ll seize this opportunity – one we might not have again for generations – and finally pass health insurance reform this year, in 2009.

Now we know there are those who will oppose reform no matter what. We know the same special interests and their agents in Congress will make the same old arguments, and use the same scare tactics that have stopped reform before because they profit from this relentless escalation in health care costs. And I know that once you’ve seen enough ads and heard enough people yelling on TV, you might begin to wonder whether there’s a grain of truth to what they’re saying. So let me take a moment to answer a few of their arguments.

First, the same folks who controlled the White House and Congress for the past eight years as we ran up record deficits will argue – believe it or not – that health reform will lead to record deficits. That’s simply not true. Our proposals cut hundreds of billions of dollars in unnecessary spending and unwarranted giveaways to insurance companies in Medicare and Medicaid. They change incentives so providers will give patients the best care, not just the most expensive care, which will mean big savings over time. And we have urged Congress to include a proposal for a standing commission of doctors and medical experts to oversee cost-saving measures.

I want to be very clear: I will not sign on to any health plan that adds to our deficits over the next decade. And by helping improve quality and efficiency, the reforms we make will help bring our deficits under control in the long-term.

Those who oppose reform will also tell you that under our plan, you won’t get to choose your doctor – that some bureaucrat will choose for you. That’s also not true. Michelle and I don’t want anyone telling us who our family’s doctor should be – and no one should decide that for you either. Under our proposals, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. If you like your current insurance, you keep that insurance. Period, end of story.

Finally, opponents of health reform warn that this is all some big plot for socialized medicine or government-run health care with long lines and rationed care. That’s not true either. I don’t believe that government can or should run health care. But I also don’t think insurance companies should have free reign to do as they please.

That’s why any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans – including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest – and choose what’s best for your family. And that’s why we’ll put an end to the worst practices of the insurance industry: no more yearly caps or lifetime caps; no more denying people care because of pre-existing conditions; and no more dropping people from a plan when they get too sick. No longer will you be without health insurance, even if you lose your job or change jobs.

The good news is that people who know the system best are rallying to the cause of change. Just this past week, the American Nurses Association, representing millions of nurses across America, and the American Medical Association, representing doctors across our nation, announced their support because they’ve seen first-hand the need for health insurance reform.

They know we cannot continue to cling to health industry practices that are bankrupting families, and undermining American businesses, large and small.

They know we cannot let special interests and partisan politics stand in the way of reform – not this time around.

The opponents of health insurance reform would have us do nothing. But think about what doing nothing, in the face of ever increasing costs, will do to you and your family.

So today, I am urging the House and the Senate, Democrats and Republicans, to seize this opportunity, and vote for reform that gives the American people the best care at the lowest cost; that reins in insurance companies, strengthens businesses and finally gives families the choices they need and the security they deserve.

Thanks.

The money will come from the pockets of CEO's who STOLE IT FROM US TO BEGIN WITH. CEO's of insurance and pharmaceutical companies who raise premiums every year, slash coverage, and FIGHT AGAINST PAYING OUT EVERY CENT OF A POLICY, EVEN TO THOSE WHO DESERVE IT.

The problem with healthcare (same with fire department, schooling, and every other government program people love to hate paying for) is that everyone hates it until it is needed.

If your driving and get into a car accident and are put into a coma they can't wait for you to wake up and see if you want to get treatment, and likewise they can't just say screw him he doesn't have a insurance card.

You wake up from the coma and are slapped with a $300,000 bill for the 3 weeks of treatment. So you are forced to go bankrupt, meaning that the government has to pay your bill anyway. If you don't and just flee the country the hospital is forced to put your bill on everyone elses insurance through higher costs.


Lets look at the fire situation, if your home is on fire, and we don't have public fire department, it is not just you that suffers, your neighbor's home will burn since noone has firehoses at the ready, especially if the government did not supply fire hydrants.


Some kind of universal healthcare is desperatly needed. Anyone who has insurance is already paying for everyone that doesn't as it is through higher hospital costs. Every legit business owner is already paying for it.

And Thebrutaltruth douching on someone's degree not being good enough is a shitty thing, your better than that. He said he is getting a grad degree, which means he doesn't have the full degree yet.

And I will say this, I am in school now working fulltime, and I just finished putting my fiance (basically wife we lived together the last 10 years and are waiting to be fully done with school to get married) through Pharmacy school so we make over $150k a year atm. And the taxes we pay are about 50% (obviously she has the majority pay and most the taxes are out of her degree) When you toss in her 401k we lose about 60% of the paycheck.

But I am more than willing to toss in a couple more percent to have universal healthcare. Since having it for a family is about $275 a month or $3,300 a year. Which is about 2% for us, but about 7% for the national avg income of $50,000.


I don't see why that shouldn't be switched. That extra 4% income is obviously a bigger number to the wealthier people (take it up to 7%) but they should have much more disposable income to invest into the market and easily get back more than enough to make up for it.

hanimmal said:

The problem with healthcare (same with fire department, schooling, and every other government program people love to hate paying for) is that everyone hates it until it is needed.

If your driving and get into a car accident and are put into a coma they can't wait for you to wake up and see if you want to get treatment, and likewise they can't just say screw him he doesn't have a insurance card.

You wake up from the coma and are slapped with a $300,000 bill for the 3 weeks of treatment. So you are forced to go bankrupt, meaning that the government has to pay your bill anyway. If you don't and just flee the country the hospital is forced to put your bill on everyone elses insurance through higher costs.


Lets look at the fire situation, if your home is on fire, and we don't have public fire department, it is not just you that suffers, your neighbor's home will burn since noone has firehoses at the ready, especially if the government did not supply fire hydrants.


Some kind of universal healthcare is desperatly needed. Anyone who has insurance is already paying for everyone that doesn't as it is through higher hospital costs. Every legit business owner is already paying for it.

And Thebrutaltruth douching on someone's degree not being good enough is a shitty thing, your better than that. He said he is getting a grad degree, which means he doesn't have the full degree yet.

And I will say this, I am in school now working fulltime, and I just finished putting my fiance (basically wife we lived together the last 10 years and are waiting to be fully done with school to get married) through Pharmacy school so we make over $150k a year atm. And the taxes we pay are about 50% (obviously she has the majority pay and most the taxes are out of her degree) When you toss in her 401k we lose about 60% of the paycheck.

But I am more than willing to toss in a couple more percent to have universal healthcare. Since having it for a family is about $275 a month or $3,300 a year. Which is about 2% for us, but about 7% for the national avg income of $50,000.


I don't see why that shouldn't be switched. That extra 4% income is obviously a bigger number to the wealthier people (take it up to 7%) but they should have much more disposable income to invest into the market and easily get back more than enough to make up for it.

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Thanks Hanimmal. Glad to hear someone is on the same page.

Rob Roy said:

You shouldn't be forced to do anything as long as you harm nobody. That doesn't mean I wouldn't put your house out if it were on fire. I don't think I need to be forced to contribute to anything though, nor should you.

Public schools are run by bureaucrats interested in protecting their jobs. Why do home schoolers consistently score higher? Why should my home that I own, be taken from me by force if I refuse to be extorted via taxation? Where is the good in this? I'm not stopping anyone from forming their own school or not...why must I be forced to comply with your DEMANDS when I demand nothing from you? Who is the agressor? Is your logic that of an aggressor that knows what's best for me, willing to harm me when I do you no harm?

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Your radical individualist ideals have no place in modern society. Yes taxes are taken forcefully, I get it....Unfortunately they are necessary. We do not live in a perfect world, things are not black and white. Try to be a little pragmatic. either we can have voluntaryism, and you can keep all your money, and do nothing against your will, and we can have a shithole of a society....or we can have taxes, and use those taxes for the betterment of society.

Now if you want to argue tax reform, I'm right there with you, but getting rid of them altogether....well that seems a little naive.

Jerry Garcia said:

The money will come from the pockets of CEO's who STOLE IT FROM US TO BEGIN WITH. CEO's of insurance and pharmaceutical companies who raise premiums every year, slash coverage, and FIGHT AGAINST PAYING OUT EVERY CENT OF A POLICY, EVEN TO THOSE WHO DESERVE IT.

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EPIC FAIL

It was you who decided to exchange your money for the goods and services that those corporations provided. There was no theft, it was a voluntary exchange. No one held you up and gun point and forced you to make those purchases. You chose, of your own free will, to give that money to them in exchange for those products and services.

Besides, if you are so concerned with premiums continuously going up, perhaps you should be urging the government to get the hell out of the market place with Medicaid, Medicare and Disability Insurance, this would open up a new pool of people that would want insurance, and desire it, to the insurance companies, thus solving their problem, and getting the government out of the market where its interference has caused the effects that are so readily visible to people like you, but defy your primitive attempts to explain them.

medicineman said:

When considering the cost of a public option, one must take into account what one already pays in medical costs. The average decent medical insurance costs for a family of 4 is around 1,000.00 a month for the premiums, and co-pays of from 5-50 bucks a visit. Perscriptions run from 5.00-100.00 or more for specialized drugs. some operations are put off untill the patient is critical or dies. It is not a good system for the majority of average Americans, let alone the 50+ million un-insured. Now take into account that employers have been fitting arount 60% of the premium costs and you have the massive burden on business, encumbering them to the tune of 1800.00 per new GM automobile coming off the production line. Universal (Single payer) would free up these corporations from the burden and overall, cost less to the taxpayer than current costs. The only reason to not do it is to fill the coffers of the insurance giants. So all you naysayers, do you guys actually work for these assholes or are you just ignorant?

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Good question Medomao, are you just ignorant, oh wait, I forgot your one of those that are on the government's healthcare plan. I'm one of those horribly unfortunate uninsured, and I don't want the government trying to force me to get insured. It is not a choice for the government to make for me.

So if you get into an accident and are put into a coma, will you pay the hospital bill if it is $100k? How would you deal with that type of situation, for real I am curious.

EPIC FAIL

It was you who decided to exchange your money for the goods and services that those corporations provided. There was no theft, it was a voluntary exchange. No one held you up and gun point and forced you to make those purchases. You chose, of your own free will, to give that money to them in exchange for those products and services.

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And what about the people that gave them their money for years and when they needed it the Insurance company decided that they don't want to pay.

Which is and has always been the way they try to do business.

We already havae gov healthcare. What about medicade, people who have medical cards, we are already taking care of people, we do not need what Obama is trying to push on us. I like my insurance just fine. This is a free country right now, and I chose to contact my state representative and let them know how I feel about it. No more gov in our business........We work hard for our money, everyone has the same opportunities that we haave. Just need to step up and make something of themselves. Have to have the drive to suceed.

Just because people don't have insurance does not mean they don't get medical service, in America. You are charged AFTER you are "fixed". If you don't pay, AFTER accepting the service, the hospital will refer you to a collection agency, for collection. Just like if you don't pay your credit cards, your mortgage, your car payment, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Or maybe someone can refer me to the bevy of stories proving I don't know what I'm talking about.

We already havae gov healthcare. What about medicade, people who have medical cards, we are already taking care of people, we do not need what Obama is trying to push on us. I like my insurance just fine. This is a free country right now, and I chose to contact my state representative and let them know how I feel about it. No more gov in our business........We work hard for our money, everyone has the same opportunities that we haave. Just need to step up and make something of themselves. Have to have the drive to suceed.

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Congrats on being one of the lucky (bad word for it, but there you are) one that can afford healthcare!


What about the huge group of people that are not poor enough to get medicare/aid, but not wealthy (or have a good job) to have it?


Edit: Funny enough I just opened a letter for my gf, her medical care coverage was denied and we now have a bill for $440.56 for a visit. Fun stuff when she has medical insurance through her job..... Bastard.

hanimmal said:

Congrats on being one of the lucky (bad word for it, but there you are) one that can afford healthcare!


What about the huge group of people that are not poor enough to get medicare/aid, but not wealthy (or have a good job) to have it?


Edit: Funny enough I just opened a letter for my gf, her medical care coverage was denied and we now have a bill for $440.56 for a visit. Fun stuff when she has medical insurance through her job..... Bastard.

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Oh wow, 440.56, you might go bankrupt...

Sorry, I'm going to laugh my ass off that you're pouting about $440.56. That's a mere drop against the dental work I'm getting done, but paying a health insurance company wouldn't have done a damn thing for my dental. Either, I'd end up paying them more than the dental is worth over the long run, or I'd end up screwing them over.

Either way some one loses. In the first it is me, and in the second it's the insurance company. I'll stick to not having insurance, and paying for it as I need it. It ultimately has been much cheaper than the alternative.

The best thing the government could do for me is to just give me all my tax money back and let me take care of myself, because I'm perfectly content to have to grow up and be a man, instead of remaining forever a child that wants others to take care of them.

Pretty soon, if you get a serious disease, or a rare form of cancer, you're gonna have to get elected to a government position, and quick, or die.

ChChoda said:

Pretty soon, if you get a serious disease, or a rare form of cancer, you're gonna have to get elected to a government position, and quick, or die.

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If I get a serious disease, I'll die with dignity, not like a bitch.

ChChoda said:

Just because people don't have insurance does not mean they don't get medical service, in America. You are charged AFTER you are "fixed". If you don't pay, AFTER accepting the service, the hospital will refer you to a collection agency, for collection. Just like if you don't pay your credit cards, your mortgage, your car payment, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Or maybe someone can refer me to the bevy of stories proving I don't know what I'm talking about.

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Well I can say from experience that the hospital may threaten to send you to collections, even if you have insurance.

It's weird though, and a very tight secret, but did you know that if you have proof on no income, haven't met your deductible on insurance but still claim you can't afford the bill, simply take your case to the hospital billing department and they can just make it all go away. It's called charitable healthcare.

See, the way it works is there are people and businesses of the U.S. that make charitable donations to these charitable causes where they don't really know where the money is going. But they get the tax write-off for giving the donation. Some of these donations are actually for such things as healthcare for the needy (not unfortunate. . .the needy).

Now, who would you guess is making most of those donations? I would have to venture it's not the poor or lower middle class. It's the middle-class, upper middle-class, and rich who make these donations for these causes.

Do you think they'll still be dolling out the dough when they have to pay taxes for the same thing?

If you ask someone to put their hand behind their back they can usually do it without a lot of pain. If you force someone to put their hand behind their back, it usually comes with a lot of screaming.

What if it is your kid that gets the disease, assuming you do, or one day might, have some? Me, I'm running for mayor of Wasilla....

lopezri said:

Do you think they'll still be dolling out the dough when they have to pay taxes for the same thing?

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And after Obama eliminates the charitable contribution tax deduction.

ChChoda said:

What if it is your kid that gets the disease, assuming you do, or one day might, have some? Me, I'm running for mayor of Wasilla....

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In the unfortunate event that something like that does happen, I have access to a good chunk of the bank's money. So, I'll go in debt, and then I'll pay off the debt. I'm not about to steal from my fellow citizens through the coercion, force and fraud of the government.

TheBrutalTruth said:

In the unfortunate event that something like that does happen, I have access to a good chunk of the bank's money. So, I'll go in debt, and then I'll pay off the debt. I'm not about to steal from my fellow citizens through the coercion, force and fraud of the government.

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Money can't buy you health care in a government run system. Unless you bribe a doctor or a bureaucrat, but a principled person like you would probably rather die.