SableZen
Well-Known Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3rpbqWPrZk
Watch the video again - you can't see anything inside any house in my opinion... but there's the video to make up your own mind.
How a Police IR helicopter functions?
- Thread starter Ax3
- Start date
Watch the video again - you can't see anything inside any house in my opinion... but there's the video to make up your own mind.
simpsonsampson420
Well-Known Member
SableZen
Well-Known Member
Where in the house is it? All I see is the roof radiating an usual amount of heat. I would guess either directly in the attic or directly venting into the attic though?
if you watch the very end it does almost apper that you can make out distinct box shaped signatures on the roof but any time the attacker moves behind an object he disappears -evidence for both i'd say interesting topic there has some military guys that have experience with this type of shit ? weigh in
SableZen
Well-Known Member
Debated whether to post this or not after I wrote it - so apologize in advance if I sound rude or anything (not my intent).
Been there and done that with IR/ambient amplification imaging from both helicopters and UAVs over both urban and suburban areas (military - not law enforcement).
Don't get me wrong - FLIR is capable of picking out a large-scale grow house emitting a lot of heat. I'm not arguing that. But people should be realistic about FLIR capability. No sense in adding to paranoia right?
FLIR may show an abnormally heated roof, but it can't see through the roof at what is generating the heat or even where it is exactly. And definitely no real chance of picking out people inside or specific lights inside.
How about if you are really concerned either rent an IR camera (and see how un-magical it is) and compare your roof to the neighbors - or: Go into your attic at night, measure the temperature of the underside of the roof at multiple points. Go to a neighbors or friends house in the area (make up a story about confirming defective insulation or something) with a similar house build and do the same thing at around the same time. If your roof temperature is within a couple of degrees of the surrounding roofs it won't be visible to FLIR as it won't stand out as unusually hot...
But if your operation is/gets large enough that you start to notice your attic/roof temperatures differing from the other roofs in the area - you'll need better air conditioning/air movement or to lower the number of heat producing watts you have somehow.
Otherwise, for most people with personal sized grows, don't vent directly outside (at night) and preferably not into the attic (unless it's daytime)... and you won't be creating an IR signature that is abnormal.
I'm not law enforcement, nor an expert on FLIR, nor an expert at busting grow houses by any means - but I am familiar enough with IR imaging at the user-end to be comfortable talking about its capabilities.
Been there and done that with IR/ambient amplification imaging from both helicopters and UAVs over both urban and suburban areas (military - not law enforcement).
Don't get me wrong - FLIR is capable of picking out a large-scale grow house emitting a lot of heat. I'm not arguing that. But people should be realistic about FLIR capability. No sense in adding to paranoia right?
FLIR may show an abnormally heated roof, but it can't see through the roof at what is generating the heat or even where it is exactly. And definitely no real chance of picking out people inside or specific lights inside.
How about if you are really concerned either rent an IR camera (and see how un-magical it is) and compare your roof to the neighbors - or: Go into your attic at night, measure the temperature of the underside of the roof at multiple points. Go to a neighbors or friends house in the area (make up a story about confirming defective insulation or something) with a similar house build and do the same thing at around the same time. If your roof temperature is within a couple of degrees of the surrounding roofs it won't be visible to FLIR as it won't stand out as unusually hot...
But if your operation is/gets large enough that you start to notice your attic/roof temperatures differing from the other roofs in the area - you'll need better air conditioning/air movement or to lower the number of heat producing watts you have somehow.
Otherwise, for most people with personal sized grows, don't vent directly outside (at night) and preferably not into the attic (unless it's daytime)... and you won't be creating an IR signature that is abnormal.
I'm not law enforcement, nor an expert on FLIR, nor an expert at busting grow houses by any means - but I am familiar enough with IR imaging at the user-end to be comfortable talking about its capabilities.
Hedgehunter
Well-Known Member
intresting thoughts guys....the above poster is correct here imo, the police love to put out this kind of propaganda to get people scared,
TriggerFinger
Active Member
The Portable air conditioner I use to cool my room puts out more hot air than my cooltube.
StreetRider
Active Member
The "plume" of exhausting heat is the number on thing they are looking for. There is no other explanation for hot air being vented out of a window at night.
Even those "Don't Get Busted" videos state that that is the obvious sign. Small grows, vented inside the building itself, are almost undetectable as far as heat. Every house has a different temperature and A/C or no A/C.
If you must put it in the upper floors of a building (basement is always better). Use insulation and fans to evenly distribute heat, and it becomes arguable that it is not grow heat, but human occupation.
Most of the time you see that footage it is of multi 1000W grows, they never show you any video of a small 1 or 2 light grow.
Even those "Don't Get Busted" videos state that that is the obvious sign. Small grows, vented inside the building itself, are almost undetectable as far as heat. Every house has a different temperature and A/C or no A/C.
If you must put it in the upper floors of a building (basement is always better). Use insulation and fans to evenly distribute heat, and it becomes arguable that it is not grow heat, but human occupation.
Most of the time you see that footage it is of multi 1000W grows, they never show you any video of a small 1 or 2 light grow.
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
You must not be very observant. Don't you see all those white dots on the roof? If you watch they all become more evident as they zoom in. Those are the heat signatures of the things in his house like 60W light bulbs. What do you think a 1000W HID looks like when they focus in.
Look at this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVespTKFXMI&feature=related
Besides, there is no point in arguing about it. People have and do get busted due in part to the ability to see the heat signature of the grow lights. It's not heat coming from a room. If that were the case everyone with a fireplace, wood burning stove, space heater or window AC unit would be suspect. Trust me, they can see HIDs through your roof.
Look at this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVespTKFXMI&feature=related
Besides, there is no point in arguing about it. People have and do get busted due in part to the ability to see the heat signature of the grow lights. It's not heat coming from a room. If that were the case everyone with a fireplace, wood burning stove, space heater or window AC unit would be suspect. Trust me, they can see HIDs through your roof.
it would be interesting to see the view without the ir at one point it seems you can see a person inside their home
maybe this has anyone on this site ever had experience with getting caught with a personal grow and go t caught in part due to ir signature seeing your lites (not jet exhaust)
maybe this has anyone on this site ever had experience with getting caught with a personal grow and go t caught in part due to ir signature seeing your lites (not jet exhaust)
SableZen
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the feedback, but not here to cast insults with anyone.
I still just don't see any internal lights in the video and I re-watched. In any case, there's just no way a 60w bulb puts out enough visible or IR radiation to be detectable from the outside (FLIR or not) through induction and convection layers of air, roof shingles, tar paper, plywood, carpet, furniture, air conditioning, insulation, and anything else that heat might have to travel through to get to an external wall/roof where it could be absorbed and re-radiated again? 60w wouldn't hardly even make it through a single piece of plywood placed two inches away from it, and wouldn't have a chance of making it through a piece of plywood at all that's placed more than a few inches away. You can try the experiment yourself in a limited sense by just feeling if any heat from the light is making it through to the other side. IR just doesn't penetrate any distance/material very well.
Are we maybe seeing the bathroom/kitchen exhaust pipes on the roof instead?
Didn't see anything unexpected in that video. People walking outside and the side of a building; was there something you were trying to point out specifically? And no, not everyone would be suspect - only those that stand out crazily from the surrounding houses by unusually high amounts of radiating heat. And there was an article someone just the other day about the police in the UK serving a no-knock warrant based on the presence of heat coming from an attached shed to someone's home... turned out it was just a wood-burning stove. Kind of just goes to show that FLIR can't determine what specific heat sources might be - only that there may be an unusual amount of heat present compared to surrounding houses/roofs.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
At no point in that video you just posted does it show anything remotely close to "individual heat signatures of 60W light bulbs". I saw them watching a particular puddle on the ground, a few people, and a hot as crap pipe of some kind on the side of a building.
Apparently logic and reasoning are lost on you. If you look back to the beginning of this thread, there have been numerous images posted that clearly show what an infrared camera sees and none of them (including the ones posted by YOU) would lead one to assume that IR can see through walls, ceilings, or any other surface.
My body is only 98 degrees, give or take. When I sit in my home under my roof, a couple inches worth of insulation, quite a few feet of air, and a ceiling I am QUITE confident that I'm not radiating nearly enough heat to penetrate all those layers and show up on an IR image taken by some passing helicopter.
If you want to believe they can watch you bone your girlfriend, go ahead. Fantasies can be good
cowboylogic
Well-Known Member
Probaly just watching Arni in Preditor too much.
ROBINBANKS
New Member
A good read about some facts, ive always had an interest in this subject, but all i have read and done research on it always comes back the same, ''if your doing a small grow'' say running 2 x 400w or 2 x 600w grow lights your under the radar, if your running 2 x 1000w lights and then some your very much on the border line with time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1384174.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1384174.stm
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
Guys, do a little Googling about the different types of heat and the different technologies out there. If you watch the video a few times and focus on the houses as they fly over you can clearly see the lighting inside of the houses. At some points as they adjust focus you can see everything in the house. Again, these are like 60W bulbs you are seeing (the tiny white specs). Watch it again and ignore the suspect and just focus on the houses and you will see the white specs all over. Those specs are light bulbs in the houses!
Just about all objects are mostly empty space and there is technology that looks through that empty space to see radiant heat which is a different type of heat from covection heat. While it is true that they can't distinguish a single HID from a space heater, they would certainly be able to distinguish 8 400W HIDs layed out in a growing pattern or even 2 or 3 HIDs in a distinct row.
There is a reason the courts have made numerous rulings on the use of thermal imaging in busting grow operations. It's just plain silly to think this happened because they can't really see the lights. They CAN see the lights. But, if you lay out Reflectix in your attic they can't because aluminum blocks the shit dead.
Really there is no argument - people have been busted by thermal imaging and it's not because hot air was blowing out. Every home blows out hot air, it's called a clothes dryer.
Just about all objects are mostly empty space and there is technology that looks through that empty space to see radiant heat which is a different type of heat from covection heat. While it is true that they can't distinguish a single HID from a space heater, they would certainly be able to distinguish 8 400W HIDs layed out in a growing pattern or even 2 or 3 HIDs in a distinct row.
There is a reason the courts have made numerous rulings on the use of thermal imaging in busting grow operations. It's just plain silly to think this happened because they can't really see the lights. They CAN see the lights. But, if you lay out Reflectix in your attic they can't because aluminum blocks the shit dead.
Really there is no argument - people have been busted by thermal imaging and it's not because hot air was blowing out. Every home blows out hot air, it's called a clothes dryer.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
No, people get busted because they vent out air from somewhere OTHER THAN a clothes dryer vent. Or they don't insulate properly and their grow room is in the attic.
Here's a former police officer explaining how the cops use FLIR to detect indoor grow houses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sudf5xDIhmM
Good call on the Reflextix bubble insulation, though. That stuff is pretty amazing, plus you get a tax credit for installing it. I'm thinking about putting some in my attic.
TriggerFinger
Active Member
I have my grow room in the attic but I have spray on insulation on the roof. This pic is before I built the grow room
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TriggerFinger
Active Member
That video from doob was good, you cant see in the house or through the walls, but you could probably tell if one specific area or room was hotter. The venting wasn't as visible as I thought it would be, I imagined a plume of smoke that could be seen by helicopters for miles