Oh Goodie! ... More on 911 (inside job) :)

[wyteboi]

"SHOW ME PLEASE! of course fire can melt steel , but at what temp ? and how long do u have to "hold" that temp ?"
i think it plainly states that fire can melt steel , hell thats how we cut it..... so i give up your right fire can melt steel
i dont know or care who u work for but you are like the only person that is , tryin to debunk this shit. We dont need to argue no more , my kids will not learn that bullshit in school and i will always show them folks that died the respect they deserve. bottem line.

 

[what... huh?]

We will never see pics close enough to see explosives (except the ones that are already out there)
So which one is it ? Did they implode "unlike any other demo" OR did it burn "unlike any other building in history" ? (3 times in one day) Now u are with me!

Demolition explosives are concussive at street level. There is TONS of video of the collapse from street level. Not so much as a bang.


This would require bang on EVERY floor in SEVERAL locations to bring it down from the top down.

There are NONE.

[youtube]o1Vu15D_0oI[/youtube]

[youtube]8OQWz7xlINA[/youtube]

You can hear the helicopter. No explosions.

 

[what... huh?]

"SHOW ME PLEASE! of course fire can melt steel , but at what temp ? and how long do u have to "hold" that temp ?"
i think it plainly states that fire can melt steel , hell thats how we cut it..... so i give up your right fire can melt steel
i dont know or care who u work for but you are like the only person that is , tryin to debunk this shit. We dont need to argue no more , my kids will not learn that bullshit in school and i will always show them folks that died the respect they deserve. bottem line.

It was a gas fire. Gas fires do not reach even close to the melting point of steel.

 

[fdd2blk]

EXACTLY !! the beams are BENT, not gone or melted , come the fuck on , you can do better than that............cant you ? the concrete aint even broke WTF ???

the beams are sheared at road level and that's NOT concrete, it's asphalt. asphalt bends when it's hot silly.

just thought i'd clear that up. has nothing to do with the current debate.

 

[huffy420]

It was a gas fire. Gas fires do not reach even close to the melting point of steel.

Hahahahah dude u have spent the last 100 pages trying to prove a fuel fire reaches temps to melt steel, then this statement?! Hah just shoot yourself in the foot again why dont ya? So where does the red melted steel come from thats pouring from the tower? And dont say aluminum from the plane cause thats false! One aluminum is not red, two the red flames
and black smoke obviously scream suffocated fire not some "raging" inferno that you seem to think. It amazes me how you contradict yourself as the agrument progresses.

No explosions eh? Thats why the word "explosions" was stated more times by eye witnesses then any other word. But what do they know?... They were on at "street level" or inside the fuckin building... Get real! ur watchin a video kn the internet thats takin like 20 or 30 blocks away, but somehow thats more justifiable then physically being present LOL u crack me up

 

[fdd2blk]

aluminum does turn red when molten. i weld it, i know.

you all really should get your facts straight. i'm not on one side or the other and i see all the errors.

 

[huffy420]

aluminum does turn red when molten. i weld it, i know.

you all really should get your facts straight. i'm not on one side or the other and i see all the errors.

Mayb u should get ur facts straight! It turns red at extremely high temps. Not an office fire! Just cause u weld it dont mean shit! Im a third gen welder and have been for a long time the only thing that turn red when welding aluminum is the tungsten rod in the stinger. It turns a slight shade of red under preheat but once torch is removed the material coolsl back to silver color VERY quickly mostly cause the argon blowing on it, either way it doesnt stay a red color as its melted unless continuous heat( assuming it hot enough to make alum turn red) is applied It takes alot of heat and amps to weld aluminum... But u weld it right?

 

[fdd2blk]

Hahahahah dude u have spent the last 100 pages trying to prove a fuel fire reaches temps to melt steel, then this statement?! Hah just shoot yourself in the foot again why dont ya? So where does the red melted steel come from thats pouring from the tower? And dont say aluminum from the plane cause thats false! One aluminum is not red, two the red flames
and black smoke obviously scream suffocated fire not some "raging" inferno that you seem to think. It amazes me how you contradict yourself as the agrument progresses.

No explosions eh? Thats why the word "explosions" was stated more times by eye witnesses then any other word. But what do they know?... They were on at "street level" or inside the fuckin building... Get real! ur watchin a video kn the internet thats takin like 20 or 30 blocks away, but somehow thats more justifiable then physically being present LOL u crack me up

Mayb u should get ur facts straight! It turns red at extremely high temps. Not an office fire! Just cause u weld it dont mean shit! Im a third gen welder and have been for a long time the only thing that turn red when welding aluminum is the tungsten rod in the stinger. It turns a slight shade of red under preheat but once torch is removed the material coolsl back to silver color VERY quickly mostly cause the argon blowing on it, either way it doesnt stay a red color as its melted unless continuous heat( assuming it hot enough to make alum turn red) is applied It takes alot of heat and amps to weld aluminum... But u weld it right?

yes i do weld, mig actually so we don't use tungsten. the aluminum puddle turns red if you hold it in place.

you said, and i highlight and quote, "aluminum is NOT red". then you go on to say it turns red.

you were mistaken or not quite clear on your statement.

why you so pissy about it though?

 

[what... huh?]

Any idea what this looks like when an office fire ignites it?

Any idea what temp a LiON UPS burns at?




Any idea how many were in the WTC?

 

[huffy420]

yes i do weld, mig actually so we don't use tungsten. the aluminum puddle turns red if you hold it in place. View attachment 512377

you said, and i highlight and quote, "aluminum is NOT red". then you go on to say it turns red.

you were mistaken or not quite clear on your statement.

why you so pissy about it though?

My apologies, i didnt mean to come off that way, i sounded like a bitchy asshole.


Let me try to clear up my own confusion...

The fire that burned within the towers were not hot enough to turn aluminum to the same color red as the melted material that was pouring from the towers. In that sense, NO aluminum will not turn red.... its not hot enough.

I TIG weld aluminum, where as you MIG it using a spool fed set-up. Correct?

Either way, they both use a large amount of heat and amps to preheat the aluminum to weldable temperatures. Temps WAY hotter then inside the towers.

So in a sense YES aluminum turns red, under extremely high temps(aka welding or a smelter). But when aluminum reaches its melting point its still silvery in color. You mush then apply MORE heat to get it to its red color.

Does that make more sence?
Sorry again for being pissy

 

[fdd2blk]

i'm not debating. just stating facts. i clearly stated this.

world trade center what?

all i know is aluminum can turn red when molten. just a fdd fun fact.

 

[what... huh?]

Mayb u should get ur facts straight! It turns red at extremely high temps. Not an office fire! Just cause u weld it dont mean shit! Im a third gen welder and have been for a long time the only thing that turn red when welding aluminum is the tungsten rod in the stinger. It turns a slight shade of red under preheat but once torch is removed the material coolsl back to silver color VERY quickly mostly cause the argon blowing on it, either way it doesnt stay a red color as its melted unless continuous heat( assuming it hot enough to make alum turn red) is applied It takes alot of heat and amps to weld aluminum... But u weld it right?

All metals turn the same approximate color at the same temperature.

Aluminum is odd because of its emmisivity.

I believe it was a slurry of burning shit, including aluminum.

 

[what... huh?]

Hahahahah dude u have spent the last 100 pages trying to prove a fuel fire reaches temps to melt steel, then this statement?! Hah just shoot yourself in the foot again why dont ya? So where does the red melted steel come from thats pouring from the tower? And dont say aluminum from the plane cause thats false! One aluminum is not red, two the red flames
and black smoke obviously scream suffocated fire not some "raging" inferno that you seem to think. It amazes me how you contradict yourself as the agrument progresses.

No explosions eh? Thats why the word "explosions" was stated more times by eye witnesses then any other word. But what do they know?... They were on at "street level" or inside the fuckin building... Get real! ur watchin a video kn the internet thats takin like 20 or 30 blocks away, but somehow thats more justifiable then physically being present LOL u crack me up

It is an issue of misusing terms. What do you call steel heating enough to become rubbery? That is what I am referring to when I say "melt". Become rubbery and lose rigidity... not the "melting point"... which is a misnomer attache by truthers in the famous line "fire does not melt steel". I am referring to the transfer state of steel which causes collapse... not the point at which it becomes a liquid.


I just showed you raw video of the collapse, where you could HEAR THE FUCKING HELICOPTER.

No explosions.

None. I don't even know how this is debatable.

 

[huffy420]

It is an issue of misusing terms. What do you call steel heating enough to become rubbery? That is what I am referring to when I say "melt". Become rubbery and lose rigidity... not the "melting point"... which is a misnomer attache by truthers in the famous line "fire does not melt steel". I am referring to the transfer state of steel which causes collapse... not the point at which it becomes a liquid.


I just showed you raw video of the collapse, where you could HEAR THE FUCKING HELICOPTER.

No explosions.

None. I don't even know how this is debatable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egIrVyM3FGY

boom boom bitch people are already talking about explosions and the towers havent even fallen yet.

But youll just deny and say "Nope no explosions"

 

[The Warlord]

I think it was aliens what did it. In a space ship with their ray guns set on "crumple giant building" setting. The planes where actually a hologram from the aliens hologram ray, set on "giant airplane" setting and never actually hit any buildings at all cause they weren't real. The purpose of this was to disrupt the "Men In Black" meeting taking place on the 12 floor. I expect them to show up at all our doors very soon to use their"flashy thing" technology to erase ouir memories.

also WW2 was all a hoax. Their is no Germany. It's a make believe country made up by the U.S. government so they could extend their influence over Europe and kill all the Jews who were there in a mad imperialist plot.
Also Ossama Bin Ladden was a swell guy so quit slandering him. RIP ossama, my friend. I loved you and not in a gay way. Not in a Gay way at all.

 

[GrowRebel]

You are forced to feign nobility in your pursuit.

It is the disinformationalist/deniers that are force to do that.

You show victims of families, who listen to your stupid ass in times of grief and props them up there asking questions. Because you use this grief to stab at your government.

Number 7 .... number 7 ...
7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.
Oh yes of course ... I had those people over my house one day and fed on their grief ... the rest is history.

I am willing to bet pretty good money that this is not the only conspiracy theory you have against the government.

Number 2 ... number 2 ...
17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

How many do you have? Make me a list of what people should be aware of that their government is doing... that is denied by the government.

I have a better idea ... how about you making a list of the times you've tried and failed to side track the issue.

I have shown, several times, steel melted by fire alone. To continue the "fire doesn't melt steel" rhetoric is just annoying at this stage.

Number 8 .... number 8 ....
8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.
No already busted you for this way back on page 46 ... we are saying an normal office fire and jet fuel does not get hot enough to melt steel ... what part of that don't you get?

20 minutes. Vehicle fire. 6 4ft thick steel I beams.

Number 20 .... number 20 ....
20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
This bullshit was debunked way back when ... notice folks that the beams on the bridge that were not touch by the fire are still standing ... yet the government would have us believe that those beams at the WTC that were not touch by fire got weak and failed at the exact same time! Those building fell with no resistance what so ever. What happen to the steel that wasn't touched by the fire? WH would like to think undamaged steel offers no resistance.

Lol.
Try not to presume MY reason for disproving your assumptions.
20 minutes.
Did you notice the very large holes in the WTC's 1 & 2?
Did you notice the steel girders were no longer there?

again ... number 20 ... number 20 ...
Investigators diagrammed estimated column damage for both impacts. They showed about 13% of the north tower's perimeter columns broken and 10% of the south tower's broken.

Do you understand that the oppressive weight of the dozens of floors above were now shifted,

number 20 again ... hum ... we debunked the pancake theory back in post 1175
Kevin Ryan Debunks pancake theory

and intense fire raged across several floors for much longer than 20 minutes around the remaining overstressed steel?

You obviously don't know the meaning of intense fire ... pictures of real intense fires have been posted, burn a hell of a lot longer than the WTC and the steel remind standing ... why is that? You still can explain what happen to the steel that wasn't touched by fire.

Do you have any idea what 20+ floors an acre each weighs? MASSIVE forces at work here... unlike any in history.

number 8 ... again ... number 8
"MASSIVE forces" sorry been debunked.

Did you notice that WTC 1&2 collapsed from the top down, unlike any demo in history... without the concussive explosions associated in EVERY demo you will ever find?

Try and pay attention ... this video clearly shows explosions going off and witnesses reporting explosions ... posted back on page 120 post 1197

911 Debunked Mystery Explosions EXPOSED
[youtube]qpwRvo0SmMM[/youtube]
I like the music too ... make me want to dance!!

Keep lying to yourself... I don't give a shit... but don't presume WHY I debunk.

No you keep lying to yourself ... we will continue to put up evidence proving 911 was an inside job.

So you accept now that fire melts steel I take it. Awesome. We can now move from there.

No ... we accept "certain fires" can melt steel, but not the fires on 911 ... get it?

I never suggested they turned to liquid. I suggested they failed... with 20 floors an acre wide above them.

Well your "suggestion" has no bases in fact or science.

The absence of them is due to the impact of hundreds of thousands of pounds slamming into it at 600 mph.

again ... number 8 ...number 8

You- "Fire doesn't melt steel, prove it"

No ... the fire that hit the WTC couldn't have melted the steel ... it wasn't hot enough and cooled 15 minutes after impact ... the black smoke indicates an oxygen starved fire.

Me- shows you evidence of that fact with folded melted steel ibeams from 20 minutes of fire.

Which was debunked long ago.

You- "you're a dummy"

Bwaa ha ha ha ... that's a correct statement!

And I can do better?

So far ... ah ... no.

Please. Tell me I was in on it now. Tell me I work for the Bush administration.

Number 22 .... number 22 ...
22. Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.

Demolition explosives are concussive at street level. There is TONS of video of the collapse from street level. Not so much as a bang.

Number 16 ... number 16
16. Vanish evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.

This would require bang on EVERY floor in SEVERAL locations to bring it down from the top down.
There are NONE.
You can hear the helicopter. No explosions.

Oh yeah ... those witnesses in the above video who were on the scene ... well ... they were just imagining explosions.

It was a gas fire. Gas fires do not reach even close to the melting point of steel.

Yeah ... and neither does jet fuel. So you just debunked your own bridge bullshit.

This was fun ... let's do it again shall we?

 

[GrowRebel]

I think it was aliens what did it. In a space ship with their ray guns set on "crumple giant building" setting. The planes where actually a hologram from the aliens hologram ray, set on "giant airplane" setting and never actually hit any buildings at all cause they weren't real. The purpose of this was to disrupt the "Men In Black" meeting taking place on the 12 floor.

Number 5 ... number 5
5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach

boom boom bitch people are already talking about explosions and the towers havent even fallen yet.
But youll just deny and say "Nope no explosions"

Huffy! Welcome back! Great video ... that's ... I post it were folks can check it out here ...
9/11 Eyewitness to Twin Towers Basement Explosion?
[youtube]egIrVyM3FGY[/youtube]

 

[what... huh?]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egIrVyM3FGY

boom boom bitch people are already talking about explosions and the towers havent even fallen yet.

But youll just deny and say "Nope no explosions"

You aren't understanding anything I am saying. Controlled demolition requires multiple charges which go off in concert AT THE TIME OF DESTRUCTION.

The guy was in the basement when the plane hit... YEAH THERE WAS A FUCKING BOOM... and flaming jet A poured down an elevator shaft.

Yeah... I expect he heard that in the basement.

 

[mexiblunt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egIrVyM3FGY

boom boom bitch people are already talking about explosions and the towers havent even fallen yet.

But youll just deny and say "Nope no explosions"

Good vid! Both towers still standing and he is saying the building went off/the elevator blew up IN THE BASEMENT.

Not that this is what I believe but this is what I thought when I seen this vid. Person near the impact is lit a blaze while getting on or near the elevator while trying to escape. while in the elevator the heat melts the cables and it plummets to the basement. Guy working in basement hears an explosion and finds said person without any skin.

I'm actually starting to lean towards the "hutchinson effect" theory. It's a new one I just made up. Not the effect but the theory. If you've seen the effect you'll know the theory.

 

[fdd2blk]

you all look crazy. seriously, every post just makes it worse.