Science Over Faith?

Green Cross

Well-Known Member
Wasn't it science that polluted out drinking water and caused global warming, and now the science crowd wants us to believe science is the answer to those problems, not the problem?

The Bible says we are to be good stewards of the land, but I guess the science crowd was too busy making money, to read...
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
I see what your saying zorkan, He has trouble believing in god because who made god..
but seems to think whatever made the gases that created the big bang isnt as hard to understand
about redshift if you really wanted to know why not use google.. do you think we can explain it any better than scientist?
fish.. listen to me on this one;

-you are making the claim some kind of a personal God exists

-I am asking you for evidence to support your idea (default position to any belief)

-you fail to present any such evidence every time I ask you for some

There is nothing wrong with me saying "I don't know where the gases that started the big bang came from" because I'm not claiming I do. You ARE claiming you know how everything started, I'm asking you how God started, you again, fail to present any kind of evidence and just say something like "he always was" or "he always has been" or some other equally as useless excuse for an answer. Therefor you ARE required to show proof of it. The bottom line is that you simply cannot handle the unknown and insert God into what ever science hasn't conclusively determined yet. It is as clear as day to anyone reading this thread.

...and I said;

How do you explain the redshift in galaxies without having had all the matter we currently occupy be in the same place at once?

...meaning, how do YOU explain the redshift in galaxies, not how does GOOGLE explain it. I know the answer, I know why galaxies move faster the farther away they are and why the light changes spectrum accordingly... I wanted to hear your personal explination for it. So do you have one?

there was no need for a tree to creat itself
...but apparently there was for God..
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Wasn't it science that polluted out drinking water and caused global warming, and now the science crowd wants us to believe science is the answer to those problems, not the problem?

The Bible says we are to be good stewards of the land, but I guess the science crowd was too busy making money, to read...

I could count the number of atheist CEO's of huge corporations responsible for polluting the environment on one hand GC, you'd probably need a pretty long list for the Christian ones. (not to mention the other believers)

point, set, match :-P
 

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
Wasn't it science that polluted out drinking water and caused global warming, and now the science crowd wants us to believe science is the answer to those problems, not the problem?

The Bible says we are to be good stewards of the land, but I guess the science crowd was too busy making money, to read...
Yeah Science is evil, I love this argument, since its so easy to refute and shows that you are in a corner. Since science did not give you the computer you are sitting right now, extend your life, provide so you have cheap food to eat. What is God going to do, tell me what diseases God has cured for us. Science did not drop the atomic bomb, humans did. Why don't you move somewhere without science and start praying for all the hardships in life to go away see how far that takes you. I am going to go work in my lab and work on medicine to to fight cancer and aids, lets see who is doing more for humanity.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Ya, like Thou Shall Not Kill....
WTF?
When you get hungry what do you do?
KILL!!!!
This commandment is often misinterpreted. This is JEWISH law, not Christian. The inference is Thou shalt not kill another member of your own tribe. Everyone else was fair game.
 

fish601

Active Member
-I am asking you for evidence to support your idea (default position to any belief)

-you fail to present any such evidence every time I ask you for some

There is nothing wrong with me saying "I don't know where the gases that started the big bang came from" because I'm not claiming I do. You ARE claiming you know how everything started, I'm asking you how God started, you again, fail to present any kind of evidence and just say something like "he always was" or "he always has been" or some other equally as useless excuse for an answer. Therefor you ARE required to show proof of it. The bottom line is that you simply cannot handle the unknown and insert God into what ever science hasn't conclusively determined yet. It is as clear as day to anyone reading this thread.
as far as i know God hasnt told anyone how he came to be so I can say I dont know that answer and christians do not claim to to know how everything started.


There is lots of evidence I see it all around.
I can not make god come down and show himself to you. even if he did you would make up something and believe that lie.

redshift ok so galaxies move faster the farther away they are and do we disagree on this? He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah 40 Read This Chapter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]40:22tell me where i am suppost to disagree with you and i will give it a shotWill you read this and tell me if it makes sence http://creation.com/bye-bye-big-bang

[/FONT]
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
Well yeah, there's evidence to support the big bang theory, there's stuff I can actually look at and say "yeah, this data points in this direction, then that data points in the next direction" it's measurable, testable, observable... I don't have anything like that to support any religion.

How do you explain the redshift in galaxies without having had all the matter we currently occupy be in the same place at once?

Why do the galaxies farther away move faster?

Why does the estimated age of things seem to line up pretty well with the estimated age of the rest of the universe? We don't see planets that are older than the big bang, we don't see planets older than their parent stars because stars form first, then planets.. there is seriously so much evidence to support the big bang, I'm talking decades and decades of insanely smart people observing and measuring to get these results, results that have changed the course of humanity.
Im no believer in each but I KNOW that there is enough proof to close the big bang theory. First did you know the theory is that the dot spun real fast and blew into all the galaxies and planets. Doesnt that mean if they were spinning one way then blew apart that scientifically they should all be spinning the same way in rotation? why are some spinning clockwise and others spinning counter?

I could count the number of atheist CEO's of huge corporations responsible for polluting the environment on one hand GC, you'd probably need a pretty long list for the Christian ones. (not to mention the other believers)

point, set, match :-P
NOW now, dont just call every person who SAYS he believes and trusts in god a "CHRISTIAN", then George bush is a "CHRISTIAN". Its what we call a good stable look for buisness.

They disagree with almost absolute correspondence. They bible tells of creation, of the earth and human beings, Adam and Eve folklore, dinosaurs lived on the earth at the same time as people, all kinds of psychotic fucking stories, and the promise of a spirit, or something similar and an afterlife, that may or may not be in your best interest.

But yeah they are fucking in complete discordance. Please just rationalize, this is something I have read just recently. People used to think the Earth was flat, and people that said, 'the Earth was round', were thought of a crazy people, then science was able to prove that the earth was indeed round. Then there is the soul which is the equivalent of the flat-earth-consciousness, then science was able to tell us why we are like we are. Ok, Understand. The 'soul' is simple a biological trick that we play on ourselves.

Peace
First off the dinosoars actually did live with us. There is lots to back this up you just have to read.
Did you know that they have found human foot prints along side dinosaurs mummified in the layers of ground. There is so much old artifacts that point to there being "dinosaurs" but original name is Dragon in the 1300's and before. Knights would slay them for the honour. The kids fairytale is based off the partial truth. Even to this day we have dinosaurs, its called alligators and crocodiles and lizards ( reptiles).

The world being flat and science proving it wrong has nothing to do with this whole arguement. That was never a theory in the bible but just people. Yes science has helped us with so many mysterys of the world.
 

fish601

Active Member
This commandment is often misinterpreted. This is JEWISH law, not Christian. The inference is Thou shalt not kill another member of your own tribe. Everyone else was fair game.

the Hebrew words לא תרצח are translated as "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not murder" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
the 10 commandments were originally given to the Hebrew people through Moses but ment for everyone
 

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
Im no believer in each but I KNOW that there is enough proof to close the big bang theory. First did you know the theory is that the dot spun real fast and blew into all the galaxies and planets. Doesnt that mean if they were spinning one way then blew apart that scientifically they should all be spinning the same way in rotation? why are some spinning clockwise and others spinning counter?

NOW now, dont just call every person who SAYS he believes and trusts in god a "CHRISTIAN", then George bush is a "CHRISTIAN". Its what we call a good stable look for buisness.



First off the dinosoars actually did live with us. There is lots to back this up you just have to read.
Did you know that they have found human foot prints along side dinosaurs mummified in the layers of ground. There is so much old artifacts that point to there being "dinosaurs" but original name is Dragon in the 1300's and before. Knights would slay them for the honour. The kids fairytale is based off the partial truth. Even to this day we have dinosaurs, its called alligators and crocodiles and lizards ( reptiles).

The world being flat and science proving it wrong has nothing to do with this whole arguement. That was never a theory in the bible but just people. Yes science has helped us with so many mysterys of the world.
What evidence is there to back that up, show me one credible piece of evidence that shows this. Don't use the foot prints next to the dinosaur thing, that has already been proven that those were not human foot prints. The dinosaur and human fossils which have been found have been dated no where near each other. When people first found dinosaur fossils they first thought they were dragon bones, thats where the connection comes from.
Please understand your facts before you use them.
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
You only say this because it can't be disproven because the bible was written by a few pricks that are too old to "remember" accurately. I think you are extremely naive to look at a fantastic story (a story is ALL the bible is) and believe it just because a bunch of other idiots believe it.

Do you really think people lived to be 900 years old? You are not willing to change beliefs because they are so deeply hard wired into your brain that you are not willing to look at basic facts and scientific proof, such as the earth being millions (or is it billions? for any geologists out there), which contradicts the bible.
They actually recently uncovered a temple that was the exact description of a hebrew temple god told the people to build. And when i mean exact i mean exact, the bible took to a whole fuckin page to describe it, and just for you none bible readers thats a lot of words.
Also if you look at the heritage of almost every country there is a tale about the ARK but with a different character and his family. But always animals and a large flood. Plus there has been many scrpitures other than the bible talking about the thousands of witnesses to Jesus.
They say there is more evidence to Jesus's exsitence than Shakespeare. Its not his exsitence that most think is false but if he really was the son of god.


Now for the age of humans.

YES 900 years does seem far fetched. but you have to realize back in the day people had much more oxygen. Everything grew bigger. We have found human fossils dated back 5000 years ago that were 13 feet tall. Its scientist who talk about the Huge shark that used to be "Megladon". Did you know REPTILES NEVER STOP GROWING? crazy eh, hmmm if reptiles never stop growing that means if they got really old theyd get HUGE. OMG ITS A DINOSAUR!!
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
What evidence is there to back that up, show me one credible piece of evidence that shows this. Don't use the foot prints next to the dinosaur thing, that has already been proven that those were not human foot prints. The dinosaur and human fossils which have been found have been dated no where near each other. When people first found dinosaur fossils they first thought they were dragon bones, thats where the connection comes from.
Please understand your facts before you use them.
Im sorry but where did all this info popup that proved carbon dating wrong?
 

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
They actually recently uncovered a temple that was the exact description of a hebrew temple god told the people to build. And when i mean exact i mean exact, the bible took to a whole fuckin page to describe it, and just for you none bible readers thats a lot of words.
Also if you look at the heritage of almost every country there is a tale about the ARK but with a different character and his family. But always animals and a large flood. Plus there has been many scrpitures other than the bible talking about the thousands of witnesses to Jesus.
They say there is more evidence to Jesus's exsitence than Shakespeare. Its not his exsitence that most think is false but if he really was the son of god.


Now for the age of humans.

YES 900 years does seem far fetched. but you have to realize back in the day people had much more oxygen. Everything grew bigger. We have found human fossils dated back 5000 years ago that were 13 feet tall. Its scientist who talk about the Huge shark that used to be "Megladon". Did you know REPTILES NEVER STOP GROWING? crazy eh, hmmm if reptiles never stop growing that means if they got really old theyd get HUGE. OMG ITS A DINOSAUR!!
So many holes in your argument, I come from Africa there is no mention of a ARC anywhere in my ancient tales. The reason that a story like that is so prevalent is because Christianity has been so wide spread. Scriptures from what age, were they also written by people who were Jews, Christians, or Muslims. If so then that means nothing. Tell me about a Native American tribe with such a story. Where did you hear that there was more oxygen. Show me proof of that. If there was more oxygen does not mean that things would grow bigger. Humans require require proper nutrition to grow bigger. Humans have actually grown taller over time, not shrunk, since we are in a time of the most abundant amount of food. Of Reptiles do not stop growing but that does not mean that they will become dinosaurs that would mean that we would have a bunch of giant reptiles roaming around the size of buildings. Once a reptiles reaches a certain age they might not stop growing but they grow at a extremely slow rate. Not nearly as fast enough for them to reach the size of buildings. Studies of dinosaur fossils have shown they grew at a rate that allowed them to reach their average size. Then their growth slowed down when they reach their mature sizes.
 

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
Im sorry but where did all this info popup that proved carbon dating wrong?
All of that information is being flooded in my creationist, the Scientific community widely accepts carbon dating. Also different isotopes are actually used for objects older then 70,000 years old. The isotopes which are used can date as far back as .7 to 48 billion years. And the use of other isotope dating methods support the data that is gathered from carbon dating. Do you even understand what carbon dating is?
 

fish601

Active Member
All of that information is being flooded in my creationist, the Scientific community widely accepts carbon dating. Also different isotopes are actually used for objects older then 70,000 years old. The isotopes which are used can date as far back as .7 to 48 billion years. And the use of other isotope dating methods support the data that is gathered from carbon dating. Do you even understand what carbon dating is?

they can not know for sure how old something is.
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
All of that information is being flooded in my creationist, the Scientific community widely accepts carbon dating. Also different isotopes are actually used for objects older then 70,000 years old. The isotopes which are used can date as far back as .7 to 48 billion years. And the use of other isotope dating methods support the data that is gathered from carbon dating. Do you even understand what carbon dating is?
did you know carbon dating only is accurate up to 50 000 years, after that all carbon is gone. How come have they found things to be 48 billions years old? thats not possible.
 

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
they can not know for sure how old something is.
That is why it is called a scientific estimate, they have tools and experiments to show that the method works. There are variables that account for more or less decay but they account for it. They also use multiple isotopes to back up the data. And you can run test and the results will usually be +/- 5% in accuracy. And when you are talking about millions and billions of years that is a good estimate. This is not estimates built on faith but on data and test, unlike the bible. Tell me where do you get this information that they cannot know. Do you even know how carbon dating works? Sounds like you don't, please understand the scientific process before you attack it.
 

dontexist21

Well-Known Member
did you know carbon dating only is accurate up to 50 000 years, after that all carbon is gone. How come have they found things to be 48 billions years old? thats not possible.
They use other isotopes such as lead, uranium, potassium, and other isotopes. Most things might be made of carbon but they contain many other atoms. I stated this before, you are really showing your ignorance of these simple scientific methods.
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
So many holes in your argument, I come from Africa there is no mention of a ARC anywhere in my ancient tales. The reason that a story like that is so prevalent is because Christianity has been so wide spread. Scriptures from what age, were they also written by people who were Jews, Christians, or Muslims. If so then that means nothing. Tell me about a Native American tribe with such a story. Where did you hear that there was more oxygen. Show me proof of that. If there was more oxygen does not mean that things would grow bigger. Humans require require proper nutrition to grow bigger. Humans have actually grown taller over time, not shrunk, since we are in a time of the most abundant amount of food. Of Reptiles do not stop growing but that does not mean that they will become dinosaurs that would mean that we would have a bunch of giant reptiles roaming around the size of buildings. Once a reptiles reaches a certain age they might not stop growing but they grow at a extremely slow rate. Not nearly as fast enough for them to reach the size of buildings. Studies of dinosaur fossils have shown they grew at a rate that allowed them to reach their average size. Then their growth slowed down when they reach their mature sizes.
sorry there are lots of holes in my info, i wrote it so fast.

Alright first off my proof for oxygen being abundant in the past is that there first off wasnt pollution like now, but the big stinger for you is the "t-rex" fossils for example have nostrils the size of a mature horse. Now that is impossible!! WAIT!! Unless the atmosphere has more oxygen. You ask how oxygen could make things grow bigger! Did you know oxygen chambers help you heal dramatically by making the cells multiply at an incredible rate which would prove the theory of something growing from a zygote become steroid zygote and have capabilities of much more. The Collosal shark is proof of that. (pic on bottom)

You are right about the food as part of the equation. The whole thing of people growing bigger now is because were on a wave line not a linear graph of growth. There was middle where oxygen was less AND food was less. Just like how there is also a wave length of global warming and cooling.

And i actually have read of a native american one that is on those lines, you just cant find literature on them as much because they never wrote before we got here. Just cave markings, so ill let you win that one because i cant find the info on it.
 

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klassenkid

Well-Known Member
They use other isotopes such as lead, uranium, potassium, and other isotopes. Most things might be made of carbon but they contain many other atoms. I stated this before, you are really showing your ignorance of these simple scientific methods.
no im not, your just to blind to realize you have to look at both sides of the picture. Only proven fact of age is CARBON! 50000 years than its inaccurate to tell other than the layer of ground its in. PERIOD. Please give me a link to your bullshit
 
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