tusseltussel
Well-Known Member
i thought i had it right it just helps t hear it from someone els thankyou
A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions
- Thread starter IAm5toned
- Start date
Straight up G
New Member
Thanks for your advice +Rep'd you.
Straight up G
New Member
Thats the same fan I have ordered the 92mm I have ordered 3 but am put off by doing the wiring myself..hello
thanks for taking the time to answer a few questions 1am5toned... especially in the electrics department... its greatly appreciated
i have 1 or 2 questions that i hope you could help me with regard to wiring up a cab grow that im considering attempting...
firstly lemme give u a basic idea of the equipment i intend to use...
flowering cab...
250w hps (cooltubed) with lumatek 250w digital ballast
link : http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=1191&osCsid=c9b23219cbe3813d56c74a9efaec60b3
4 inch shower inline duct extractor for cooltube (either 1 or 2 depending on ducting layout / cab size)
link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Shower-Bathroom-Fan-INLINE-DUCT-EXTRACTOR-4-100mm_W0QQitemZ180392990788QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air?hash=item2a00429844&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
4 or 5 inch extractor fan and carbon filter
link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EXTRACTOR-FAN-KIT-CARBON-FILTER-4-HYDROPONICS-new-2009_W0QQitemZ260475769694QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN?hash=item3ca590d35e&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
very cheap 300w pc power supply for powering a handful of pc fans & fan controller
link : http://www.ebuyer.com/product/20083
link : http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-050-AK&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=4]
link : http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-021-AK&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=189
clone & veg cabs....
1x 150-175w cfl in each cab
link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-x-150w-ECO-CFL-Lamp-Bulbs-Grow-Lights-for-Hydroponics_W0QQitemZ250464646370QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN?hash=item3a50db34e2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
and another cheap 300w psu / fans / controller
and my questions are.....
1 ... i have just 3 spare 240v sockets in the room where im wanting to grow... theres a double and a single socket at opposite sides of the small room... which isnt enough for what i need... and im not very happy about running a 4 or a 6 way extension to my flowering box... is it worth me investing in a 13 amp contactor relay for my flowering box ?
link : http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_75&products_id=59
2 ... the 4 inch shower fans are fixed speed only... would i be ok wiring a normal 240v lighting dimmer switch or 2 into the fans power leads so i can control their speed ?... in regard to the carbon filter fan... ive read they are quite noisy and id also like to be able to control its speed too... i assume it would be ok dimmer switching this up too ?
link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-GANG-2-WAY-400W-DIMMER-IN-WHITE-NEW-CLEARENCE-LINE_W0QQitemZ250494957081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM?hash=item3a52a9b619&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
3 ... my clone and veggie cabs only have 1 socket from which they can be powered from.... will i be ok running the 2 x 150w cfls & the cheap pc power pack thru a 4 way extension ?
4 ... would you reccomend that i incorperated any trip switches as an extra fail safe or am i being too paranoid ?
link : http://cgi.ebay.ie/Square-D-Type-QOE-16-amp-Type-2-Stabloc-1-pole-MCB_W0QQitemZ260473847959QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Materials_Supplies_Electrical_ET?hash=item3ca5738097&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
some additional infoz....
my small home has 2x 32 amp circuits at the leccy box for all its sockets... the room i wanna grow in is my laundry room where i keep my washer and drier (they have a socket each but i think that they are spurred of the single socket)... the double socket for the flowering cab is spurred from my adjacent bedroom and my outside light (energy saving flouresent) is spurred from the rear of the flowering cab socket... i also know that my home was fully rewired back in the early 1990s... if thats any help
many thx in advance
p.s. and i dont have any spare slots in my fuse box to create a dedicated power source for my grow
Green Cross
Well-Known Member
Yeah I made up the service, because I'm not going to give identifiable specifics when talking about an illegal grow space, on the Internet.errr 350 amp service? thats kind of an odd number I would say. And if your really using 270a im impressed at your ability to pay the light bill but to answer the question it depends heavily on the type of power you need for the equipment your adding. Often you will find that the power requirements are far less than the breaker sizes, and you dont really need to add 3 breakers if your only adding say, a few lights and a couple of plugs. on lights and plugs a safe rule of thumb is not too exceed 1800w per 20amp circuit.
an easy way to convert amps to watts is this:
Watts = Amps x Volts
1200w = 10amps x 120volts*
*edit-
it helps if you have a voltage meter and know how to take an accurate reading. local variations of voltage that ive seen can range from as low as 107vac to as high as 135vac, and you need to take this into consideration to avoid nuisance tripping if your going to max out your circuits.
Let's see if I can phrase the question in a more strait forward way. Can you add circuits to a service, as long as there are open punch-outs on the breaker box, and the total amps doesn't exceed the rated service on the box? If you have a 200 amp service can you use all 200 safely?
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
ok ill assume a couple of things here (and i mean assume. there are lots of variables to consider)
1. you have a 200amp service that has available slots in the panel, residential setting
2. because you have a 200a panel in a residential setting with available slots either:
(a) you have a small house
(b) your not pulling the full load
(c) house is brand new and the slots are code required for future expansion
breaker sizes do not typically reflect the amount of power that is actually being used.
they are sized according to the wire that is connected to them, not the load. you can have 42 20amp breakers in a panel with a 200 amp main breaker..... (thats 840 amps)
what YOU need to know however is how much power your using right now. because what you dont want to happen is to exceed the 200a. then your main breaker trips and thats a pain in the ass!
just from what youve told me however i would say your good to go in your particular panel. i say this because in my experience, you could probably run every appliance in your house, turn on every light, anything that uses power, and you probably going to be pulling no more than 125amps...thats just my experience speaking tho.
if you have doubts tho always consult a pro in person
a nasty trick to pull to achieve this is to look in the phonebook and find an electrical contractor that does free estimates. when he shows up ask him to quote you a price on what you need, and have him explain the work that is needed to be done
then just never have them start the job
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
nice setup!hello
thanks for taking the time to answer a few questions 1am5toned... especially in the electrics department... its greatly appreciated
i have 1 or 2 questions that i hope you could help me with regard to wiring up a cab grow that im considering attempting...
firstly lemme give u a basic idea of the equipment i intend to use...
flowering cab...
250w hps (cooltubed) with lumatek 250w digital ballast
link : http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=1191&osCsid=c9b23219cbe3813d56c74a9efaec60b3
4 inch shower inline duct extractor for cooltube (either 1 or 2 depending on ducting layout / cab size)
link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Shower-Bathroom-Fan-INLINE-DUCT-EXTRACTOR-4-100mm_W0QQitemZ180392990788QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air?hash=item2a00429844&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
4 or 5 inch extractor fan and carbon filter
link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EXTRACTOR-FAN-KIT-CARBON-FILTER-4-HYDROPONICS-new-2009_W0QQitemZ260475769694QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN?hash=item3ca590d35e&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
very cheap 300w pc power supply for powering a handful of pc fans & fan controller
link : http://www.ebuyer.com/product/20083
link : http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-050-AK&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=4]
link : http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-021-AK&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=189
clone & veg cabs....
1x 150-175w cfl in each cab
link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-x-150w-ECO-CFL-Lamp-Bulbs-Grow-Lights-for-Hydroponics_W0QQitemZ250464646370QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN?hash=item3a50db34e2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
and another cheap 300w psu / fans / controller
and my questions are.....
1 ... i have just 3 spare 240v sockets in the room where im wanting to grow... theres a double and a single socket at opposite sides of the small room... which isnt enough for what i need... and im not very happy about running a 4 or a 6 way extension to my flowering box... is it worth me investing in a 13 amp contactor relay for my flowering box ?
link : http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_75&products_id=59
2 ... the 4 inch shower fans are fixed speed only... would i be ok wiring a normal 240v lighting dimmer switch or 2 into the fans power leads so i can control their speed ?... in regard to the carbon filter fan... ive read they are quite noisy and id also like to be able to control its speed too... i assume it would be ok dimmer switching this up too ?
link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-GANG-2-WAY-400W-DIMMER-IN-WHITE-NEW-CLEARENCE-LINE_W0QQitemZ250494957081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM?hash=item3a52a9b619&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
3 ... my clone and veggie cabs only have 1 socket from which they can be powered from.... will i be ok running the 2 x 150w cfls & the cheap pc power pack thru a 4 way extension ?
4 ... would you reccomend that i incorperated any trip switches as an extra fail safe or am i being too paranoid ?
link : http://cgi.ebay.ie/Square-D-Type-QOE-16-amp-Type-2-Stabloc-1-pole-MCB_W0QQitemZ260473847959QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Materials_Supplies_Electrical_ET?hash=item3ca5738097&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
some additional infoz....
my small home has 2x 32 amp circuits at the leccy box for all its sockets... the room i wanna grow in is my laundry room where i keep my washer and drier (they have a socket each but i think that they are spurred of the single socket)... the double socket for the flowering cab is spurred from my adjacent bedroom and my outside light (energy saving flouresent) is spurred from the rear of the flowering cab socket... i also know that my home was fully rewired back in the early 1990s... if thats any help
many thx in advance
p.s. and i dont have any spare slots in my fuse box to create a dedicated power source for my grow
couple of things i need to point out to you:
i can tell by the voltage your not in north america
over here in the usa we run on 230/125vac @ 60hz
sounds to me like your on a 50hz system.
this is outside my area of exptertise, however i will do my best to give you accurate answers
to your questions:
question 1
i love contactors and relays, but the electrically held ones make a 'buzzing' noise that will drive you insane. trust me they are noisy. if you get one i would highly reccomend one that is MECHANICALLY HELD or LATCHING, not electrically held.
also wiring up a contactor requires a control circuit to turn it on and off. this can be tricky for a novice; and also, it is just a remote controlled switch. you gain no power savings from using one, you just get the ability to control alot of devices at once. however in your case where you have so much equipment id reccomend it to avoid having splitters(3-4way adapters) installed. ge manufactures some excellent small lighting contactors. make sure any speed controls are wired after the contactor, not before it. (wire coming off of load side of contactor feeds speed controller, which then feeds device)
question 2-
NO. dimmer switches are for incadescent lights ONLY, they work by limiting the power to the lamps to make them 'dim'. using a dimmer on anything else than lights will cause your device to burn up from under voltage, especially if it is a motor of any kind. never attempt this it will only lead to failure!
what you need to control your pc fans is a 12v SPEED CONTROLLER SWITCH. if you cant find one at a electronics shop or website, you can use a model train speed controller available at just about any hobby shop for cheap. just make sure it is for 12v and your good to go. i would highly reccomend going with the model train setup as most controllers have there own fused power supply incorporated into it, which means you can cancel or return the power supply you already have and eleminate an extra component! (k.i.s.s. rule)
part b-
on the carbon filter fan what you will need is a 240v MOTOR SPEED CONTROLLER. this is important. again, it will burn if you try to use a dimmer to control it!
question 3-
YES. if it is a single outlet your probably good for up to 32amps (or 35a, im not sure, again a 50hz system is not my forte) i wouldnt be scared to add 2 or 3 more cfls to that plug if you felt you needed them!
question 4-
theres no such thing as too much protection. however instead of a 'trip switch' i would instal GFCI outlets to replace the existing plugs (Ground Fault Circuit Interruptors). these will help protect your equipment if something bad happens by instantanously tripping the instant a fault conditon occurs. like a really fast fuse you can reset. these are most commonly used in wet areas like bathrooms and kitchens. (the plugs with the 2 buttons on them) you will be able to sleep safe knowing you have them installed
hope i helped you out, and good luck with the grow
*edit-
i notice your missing a timer there
id get one! tork makes the best electromechanical timers in my opinion.. http://www.tork.comHefedanknugz
Active Member
would it be possible to run 240 wire from the 240 dryer outlet in my garage up to the 2nd story of my house and into the grow room?
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
probably not, unless you plan on abandoning the dryer plug altogether. if not, your begging for problems.... like fire dept kind of problems
Hefedanknugz
Active Member
yeah i def want to avoid those kind of problems. im not using the plug at all. so is it a possible option? i have 4000k watts in my flower room and im trying to figure out how exactly im going to safely run that. any suggestions?
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
if your going to abandon the dryer receptacle then, yes, you can do this. just make sure you use a good #10awg cable for the job. dont use any wire smaller than #10, theres a chance it can heat up if you go crazy and add more lights.
typically a dryer is a 30 amp circuit, which gives you roughly 5280w @ 220vac to play with for continuous duty power. (on longer than 8 hours)
remember watts= volts x amps
to achieve safe continuous duty amperage you need to rate your circuits @ 80% of the breaker rating, which for a 30amp breaker @ 220v is 5280w
(30a x 220v= 6600w
6600w x 80% = 5280w) always use wattage to rate your circuits, never amps. amps are used to determine wire size and breaker size and thats about it*
this formula was invented by a guy named Ohm... the 80% rating was invented by a guy named Westinghouse...dont try to tamper with it
stay within 80% and you cant go wrong*amps are a unit of measurement that describes the amount of electrons flowing in a circuit, not the actual power consumption. power consumption is always expressed as either watts or v.a (volt-amps)
captain bob
Active Member
Sticking with this same idea, can I tap into where my 240 Dryer receptacle is, run an extension to my flower room (roughly 30 feet away) and add two to three more 240 receptacles?
For some reason 240 is a little more intimidating.
Thanks.
i wish i had seen this thread when i was building my room. oh well, i figured it out anyways. peep the process.
http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1548323#Post1548323
http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1548323#Post1548323
Green Cross
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the great answerok ill assume a couple of things here (and i mean assume. there are lots of variables to consider)
1. you have a 200amp service that has available slots in the panel, residential setting
2. because you have a 200a panel in a residential setting with available slots either:
(a) you have a small house
(b) your not pulling the full load
(c) house is brand new and the slots are code required for future expansion
breaker sizes do not typically reflect the amount of power that is actually being used.
they are sized according to the wire that is connected to them, not the load. you can have 42 20amp breakers in a panel with a 200 amp main breaker..... (thats 840 amps)
what YOU need to know however is how much power your using right now. because what you dont want to happen is to exceed the 200a. then your main breaker trips and thats a pain in the ass!
just from what youve told me however i would say your good to go in your particular panel. i say this because in my experience, you could probably run every appliance in your house, turn on every light, anything that uses power, and you probably going to be pulling no more than 125amps...thats just my experience speaking tho.
if you have doubts tho always consult a pro in person
a nasty trick to pull to achieve this is to look in the phonebook and find an electrical contractor that does free estimates. when he shows up ask him to quote you a price on what you need, and have him explain the work that is needed to be done
then just never have them start the job
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
no. dimmer switches should be used for incandescent lighting only. using a dimmer to control a motor cause your motor to fail due to under voltage...
you need a MOTOR SPEED CONTROL SWITCH-
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
it shouldnt be! 240v is simply 2 legs of 110
please, please remember though when doing this the size of the wire you are going to add is exremely important. make sure your cable is rated to hold at least the max amps for the breaker that it is connected to. this is imperative. when extending a circuit out of an existing device, ALWAYS use the same size wire connected to the device or bigger. i cant stress this enough.
there is no code or law or rule that says how many receptacles you can have connected to a circuit.
what determines this is the amount of power you need vs. the size of the wire serving the circuit. you can literally have 500 plugs on one circuit. im not saying do this, but for examples sake it is possible and legal. what your asking is typically a 'trick' question on many electrical liscensing exams
what you need to know is how many watts your using/or need and how many watts you have available. the number of plugs is quite irrelevant, and should be determined by how many cords you plan on having plugged in
the folowing is a simple step by step process to size your load for continous duty use-(W= I x E)
(watts = amps x volts)
simply check the size of the breaker. its probably going to be 30-40amp range. for the purpose of this example im going to use 30a
multiply the size of your breaker times the voltage (30a x 220v= 6600w) this is the max power you can use for this circuit.
to rate this circuit safely you need to devalue the amperage by a factor of 80% of the max. this sounds complicated but its not- see:
(6600w x 80% = 5280w)
you have 5280w to use for your growing pleasure!
add up the wattage of ALL* the equipment connected. is it lower than the 5280watts? if so your good to go. if not you need another additional circuit or more power effecient devices
this same process can also be used to determine breaker size... which determines wire size... which determines how many watts you can pull. see the connection?
*keep in mind when adding light fixtures that use ballasts, (HID, flouro's, MH, HPS, LPS whatever) the wattage is the size of the LAMPS, not the ballasts. a 400w HPS connected to a 600w ballast pulls 400w... not 600w. ballasts are rated for the max size lamp it can handle before it begins to overheat.
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
that is more of a question for your power company. i have heard this is true in some areas, especially on the west coast, but i dont know for sure... personally i have never come across a meter box that tells you when you use power, only tells you how much power was used in a given time span.
captain bob
Active Member
Thank you, Sir, for your time and advice, it's much appreciated!