What's wrong with socialism?

[doobnVA]

I just want to hear some honest, informed opinions on why you think socialism is so horrible. Please bear in mind that socialism is not the same as communism, fascism, or nazism. Let's just stick with socialism for now.

2 questions:

What do you think socialism means?

And

Why do you consider socialism "bad"?

 

[tinyTURTLE]

dude, don't start a fire.

 

[Leothwyn]

In theory it sounds like a nice ideal. But I suspect the main problem people would have with it (aside from people automatically, and often wrongly, associating it with horrible dictatorships) is that it gives the government too much control over our lives, and a lot of people don't trust government - with good reason.

 

[doobnVA]

In theory it sounds like a nice ideal. But I suspect the main problem people would have with it (aside from people automatically, and often wrongly, associating it with horrible dictatorships) is that it gives the government too much control over our lives, and a lot of people don't trust government - with good reason.

Socialism isn't totalitarianism, either. You can have democracy AND socialism together. Adopting socialist ideals doesn't mean throwing away the Constitution, which actually has a socialist influence in it already (all men are created equal).

There are lot of socialist aspects to our policies already (taxes, welfare, etc). It seems universal health coverage is the only thing we haven't embraced.

 

[NoDrama]

Socialism is government control of the citizen through Liberal giving of Money and Assets that once belonged to someone else. Socialism is Anti Property rights, Anti liberty, Anti Common Sense.

 

[Leothwyn]

Socialism isn't totalitarianism, either.

I agree, though it has been in cases in the past.

When I say that people are nervous about the gov. controlling too much, I'm referring to the many social programs in social democracies... free education, free child care, and the gov. having much greater involvement in improving living conditions all around (environment, equality, etc.).

These all sound good, but would mean the gov. having its hands in more aspects of our lives than they already do. It's hard to trust them not to fuck it up.

Personally, I'd like to see universal health care. I can't help wondering how every other developed nation has it, but somehow we can't manage it...

But, I look at countries like the Scandinavian ones, where quality of life seems much better than here in many ways, and I have a hard time imagining us getting to that point. They're managing nations practically the size of one of our states. With the sheer size of our country, the huge variety of widely varying beliefs and cultural identities, I picture a social democracy here just being too big, bloated, and unwieldy.

 

[regal8r]

i will be the first one to admit that i know next to nothing about government and politics, but OBVIOUSLY democracy isnt working so...

 

[NoDrama]

I

Personally, I'd like to see universal health care. I can't help wondering how every other developed nation has it, but somehow we can't manage it...

they can afford it because they don't spend hundreds of Billions of dollars on war. war war war. How many "Skirmishes" have we been in the last 30 years? We don't actually have "Wars" anymore, not officially sanctioned ones declared by congress and constitutional anyway.

 

[jesus of Cannabis]

Adopting socialist ideals doesn't mean throwing away the Constitution, which actually has a socialist influence in it already (all men are created equal).

.

and endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable rights, and among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

which pretty endows me with the right to be as different as the next guy, the pursuit of happiness I take to mean the ability to be your own person and find happiness as an individual, not the way government of todays regime want's it to be.

 

[Leothwyn]

Are you saying that since Jan. of this year you are no longer able to be 'as different as the next guy' or pursue happiness as an individual?

There's a lot wrong w/ our country, but I'm still pursuing my happiness about as well as I was a year ago.

and endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable rights, and among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

which pretty endows me with the right to be as different as the next guy, the pursuit of happiness I take to mean the ability to be your own person and find happiness as an individual, not the way government of todays regime want's it to be.

 

[doobnVA]

they can afford it because they don't spend hundreds of Billions of dollars on war. war war war. How many "Skirmishes" have we been in the last 30 years? We don't actually have "Wars" anymore, not officially sanctioned ones declared by congress and constitutional anyway.

Very true.

 

[jesus of Cannabis]

Are you saying that since Jan. of this year you are no longer able to be 'as different as the next guy' or pursue happiness as an individual?

There's a lot wrong w/ our country, but I'm still pursuing my happiness about as well as I was a year ago.

Every passing Presidential person takes more and more of my rights away, so in essence yes to your question.

 

[doobnVA]

Every passing Presidential person takes more and more of my rights away, so in essence yes to your question.

Name one "right" that's been taken away from YOU, personally, in the last 8 months.


Oh, none? Okay, that's what I thought.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

I am the owner/operator of Humana and my right to free speech under the 1st amendment was just trampled by this administration. Well, I guess I'm not really the owner/operator but you said to make it personal.

 

[Green Cross]

I just want to hear some honest, informed opinions on why you think socialism is so horrible. Please bear in mind that socialism is not the same as communism, fascism, or nazism. Let's just stick with socialism for now.

2 questions:

What do you think socialism means?

And

Why do you consider socialism "bad"?

History say socialism is a failure.

The US won the cold war remember?

Why don't you ask the millions of Russians who are still trying to come to the US, what's wrong with socialism.

Did they stop teaching history in the public school system?

 

[Leothwyn]

I think this was meant to be more of a discussion of socialism within a democracy not socialist dictatorships.

Why don't YOU ask some Scandinavians how things are working out for them?

I don't consider myself a socialist, and have doubts about it working here in the US... but had to respond to your post.
Did you know that the USSR model is not the only type of socialism?

History say socialism is a failure.

The US won the cold war remember?

Why don't you ask the millions of Russians who are still trying to come to the US, what's wrong with socialism.

Did they stop teaching history in the public school system?

 

[Keenly]

Name one "right" that's been taken away from YOU, personally, in the last 8 months.


Oh, none? Okay, that's what I thought.

well i dont remember the exact day it happened

but it feels like less than eight months ago...

when the supreme court ruled that "mistakes" made in an investigation that caused law enforcement to violate the fourth amendment could STILL be used as evidence in court against you


i believe an example would be a cop trespassing on your property, and finds some pot

in court he then says "i didnt see the sign that said [no trespassing, private property], it was a mistake" that can then still be used as evidence depending on how much the judge really cares about the constitution

thats a pretty big blow to the fourth amendmant

you seem to be under the impression we think this is all obamas fault, he isnt, just another wheel in the gears of big government

 

[doobnVA]

well i dont remember the exact day it happened

but it feels like less than eight months ago...

when the supreme court ruled that "mistakes" made in an investigation that caused law enforcement to violate the fourth amendment could STILL be used as evidence in court against you


i believe an example would be a cop trespassing on your property, and finds some pot

in court he then says "i didnt see the sign that said [no trespassing, private property], it was a mistake" that can then still be used as evidence depending on how much the judge really cares about the constitution

thats a pretty big blow to the fourth amendmant

you seem to be under the impression we think this is all obamas fault, he isnt, just another wheel in the gears of big government

That was the Oliver v. US case that was heard in 1984.

Since the Supreme Court ruled that it doesn't violate the fourth amendment, it is not an "unconstitutional" search. A judge who follows this precedent is not disregarding the constitution.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=US&vol=466&page=170


someone said before that "every President who passes through takes away more of my rights". I am simply asking for an example of ONE right that we have "lost" since Obama took office in January.

Decisions made by the SCOTUS are not "rights taken away by a President'.

 

[Keenly]

That was the Oliver v. US case that was heard in 1984.

Since the Supreme Court ruled that it doesn't violate the fourth amendment, it is not an "unconstitutional" search. A judge who follows this precedent is not disregarding the constitution.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=US&vol=466&page=170

no, im not talking about something that happened before i was born

 

[doobnVA]

no, im not talking about something that happened before i was born

Yes, you are. Read the link I just posted. that decision was handed down by the Supreme Court in 1984.