Iran Update...

[PadawanBater]

Not sure if CJ is gonna answer but IMO Iran would drop the big one on Israel for starters.

OK, fair enough.

1. Iran gets the bomb

2. Iran detonates a nuclear warhead in Israel

Aftermath;

-millions of Israeli's and Arabs dead
-milions of people displaced
-Israel declares war with Iran and it's allies (all other neighboring Arab nations)
-The United States enters the war in support of Israel against Iran and it's allies
-China enters in support of Iran
-Russia remains neutral in the beginning but supplies Iran with weapons and support behind the scenes

Or do you see another outcome?

What would Iran gain from starting WW3?

 

[CrackerJax]

Iran has many options available.

1.) dirty bomb (they have this now)
2.) clean bomb (soon)
3.) EMP bomb (soon)

I believe the first bomb will be set off in Iran. A test. A show of force and hubris.

No one can predict exactly what they will do with number two. Targets from their own mouth are London, and Tel Aviv.

I don't believe if they detonate a nuke on Israel, it will necessarily kill millions. Like any weapon which depends on a reactant, any destructive power output is variable. You can make the bomb extremely powerful, or you could set off a mini nuke. It's really up to them. It makes more sense IF they use one in Israel, to hit towards the coast and a small one. It doesn't matter after that. Israel will become uninhabitable, at least a large swath of it. It wouldn't be hard to hit an area that is not wanted by the Palestinians. Of course the world would freak out. Everything to clean up the site would be done to minimize further exposure.

They could also take an EMP and detonate over Europe or the USA. Both of these techniques would be highly effective and basically remove those nations from the chessboard for quite a spell. They could then attain their goals more methodically... anew age would be declared with the crippled nation pushed to the side.

A lot of options. Given the decadence of the current leadership who seem to have no problem what so ever with killing protesters, and Obama then recognizing that farce of an election, they feel emboldened, and although it is downplayed here in the USA, those wingnut leaders in Iran truly believe in their prophecy of the 12th Imam. You don't have to believe it, but they sure do. That's all that's necessary.

I'd like to believe that they are just going to sit on the nukes, and just try and prove they can be reasonable, but they have given absolutely no indication so far that it's possible. Iran has done nothing but go behind nations backs and stall, lie and obfuscate what they are doing. They lie continually, and no matter how much Obama appeases them, it has no effect. Match that with developing their missile capability, and working hand in hand with that maniac KHAN from Pakistan, it sure seems they aren't going to play tiddlywinks, but just may be playing some very high handed poker.

Do we have the right leader to deal with this?

You know my answer to that. You should to.

Of course Israel is the wild card. I think if they don't attack, it's a heck of a gamble. I don't see how they can sit still when the intentions have been broadcasted so strongly and so many times. That's a risk not many nations could swallow. Could you? Could the USA? Obama gives every indication that Iran has whipped him but good. He blinked twice last week to both Russia and Iran, and for no real reason either. This only makes Iran bolder.

You can't appease dictators.despots for long. They have their own plans.

 

[Woomeister]

Now that a second enrichment plant has been 'found' sanctions are going to be tough if inspectors arent allowed in. Just watching live announcements now...

 

[CrackerJax]

There haven't been bona fide inspections for years now. Iran always keeps parts of their operation closed to inspection.

We should gather all of the details that we can, but I'm sure our military is better informed on their operations than they are letting on.

Sanctions? Nice... but nothing will deter Iran from accomplishing their true goal now. They are very close to their final solution. Nothing short of an attack will slow them down.

Obama doesn't have it in him to fight Iran. he's too worried about his domestic programs. A common malady which will bite us all on the arse...... this is a repeat of Clinton politics in a way.

Obama doesn't have his eye on the ball.

Now it is really up to Israel. Imagine that..... the USA and the EU and Nato and the UN have all abdicated their options and one tiny nation must now do the dirty work. Israel will most certainly be vilified for it. I think it's a true show of character. The ability to do the right thing no matter how unpopular, no matter the risk, is truly a character all nations should have.

 

[Woomeister]

Im not happy that Obama new about the Qom enrichment plant before he was even sworn in....

 

[londonfog]

wow Cracker you should go work for the CIA.... lol

 

[CrackerJax]

Oh please folks.... everybody is dirty in politics. It always amazes me how much the general public can be hoodwinked over and over again. I think it's because most of the ppl WANT to believe the lie. Who wouldn't?

That's exactly how the pol's and dictators etc. take advantage of everyone. They wrap the lies in such a way that you would be hard pressed to disagree and feel good about urself.

I haven't taken some unpopular stances on some threads, but it's not because what I say isn't correct, it's because ppl don't want to really find out the ppl they believe in are wolves.
Many times I cringe at what the reality is. I don't want to believe the worst in ppl, but I've been around long enough to see that modern politics draws an awful lot of arseholes to it compared to other careers. The ones that have to have the power... just have to have it.... are the most dangerous.

Obama knew.... they all know..... it's all a ruse.

Obama actually is setting up a scenario now where he can go many ways....as events unfold. That's politics. He has no inner compass,not good.

Obama's speech at the UN was a farce. Woo, ur from England. I tell you this and it may sound crazy, but you were safer in bed each night with Bush than U R with Obama.

I think U R starting to C that..... politics aside.

If I could bring back Ol' Ronnie Reagan, I would. Like Cincinnatus of ancient Rome, after enough corruption and weakness overtook Rome or a war was needed to be led, they would call Cinncinatus back in and give him absolute rule until things were righted. Then Cincinnatus would retire, because unlike most who serve the office..... Reagan and Cincinnatus really did THE JOB, because they truly believed in the PPL. Mistakes and blunders are part of the human condition.

Belief is paramount. All things follow it. Even the flag.

 

[redivider]

believing Iran will detonate a bomb is like believing Israel will remain a peaceful, not aggressor nation. it is bullshit.

Iran is not a big military concern. The only reason the media is running to Iran as a big deal is to let that story take over the real concerns of today:

De-regulation has allowed banks and mega-corporations and it's high-level officers to mis-lead their investors with faulty accounting claims, to claim huge profits where there are none, to create monopolized mergers that control enough money to exert control of world governments, and to have them steal every nickel and dime, then to have the people of the world bail them out.

stop thinking Iran is such a big deal, AIG, JP Morgan Chase, General Electric, AT&T, that's the real enemy.

if you think that having the board of directors of a company have more say in what happens in a nation than that nations own elected officials does not represent a very BIG problem for the peoples of the world...

that is one of the problems with capitalism and free markets. there is a point where a company can become so big, so diverse, and so influential, the very government will be unable to operate without it and will be unable to pass measures without it's consent... that is why anti-trust laws were enacted, but their enforcement has taken a back seat to the whole fear-mongering, terrorist-creating, security-needing mentality created by the bush administration... you say socialism is taking over the country, i say exactly the opposite, big-conglomo is taking over the world....

 

[Woomeister]

CJ, I dont believe I have ever commented on Obama before and how safe or not the world is with him in charge. I personally would prefer a world with reagan and gorbachev!!! You will probably disagree but Putin is dangerous and he is the puppet master of an integral piece in the world game of chess. Why oh why did BUsh not let people know what was known about Qom then, he knew as well! Sarkosy is no fool but Im afraid Brown is a moron who should stick to book keeping, Cameron is hardly a replacement though!

 

[chitownsmoking]

the jews are gonna put a hurting on the iranians and this conflict is gonna happin soon! lets see how obama will try and play this one out, cuzz obama dont got the jews back like bush did, or so it seems like this.

 

[CrackerJax]

CJ, I dont believe I have ever commented on Obama before and how safe or not the world is with him in charge. I personally would prefer a world with reagan and gorbachev!!! You will probably disagree but Putin is dangerous and he is the puppet master of an integral piece in the world game of chess. Why oh why did BUsh not let people know what was known about Qom then, he knew as well! Sarkosy is no fool but Im afraid Brown is a moron who should stick to book keeping, Cameron is hardly a replacement though!

I agree with you Woo. Give us back Reagan and Gorbachev. Bush had his faults but patriotism and trying to protect the US citizens was a true value he held. he may have stumbled in the war, but wars are like that. He made the adjustments, and all in all, he was there to win. That's always the key.
I don't see this now, and it's disturbing.

the jews are gonna put a hurting on the iranians and this conflict is gonna happin soon! lets see how obama will try and play this one out, cuzz obama dont got the jews back like bush did, or so it seems like this.

I dunno Chi. I certainly think Israel has been trying to set the stage of world opinion to justify the attack they may need to perform. There's a problem though. Obama's latest maneuvering at the U.N. is a roadblock for Israel. Obama is saying, look, we're handling it over here. I've got Russia on board (seemingly), and France, and England, and Germany.... hang on over there.

This practically guarantees Iran will get their nukes.

It's interesting that Obama has known all along and the public hasn't. Not complaining about anything security wise, I understand, but it sheds a bit more light on Obama's foreign policy.

Obama has known. He rebuffs England from the get go. Several times in fact. This is kind of funny, but at the UN, Gordon asked 5 times for a quick sit down alone with Obama and 5 times was refused. Gordon had to chase Obama around and finally caught Obama in the UN kitchens. WTH??? Obama hates that guy!!

Anyway, Obama rebuffs Gordo, then appeases Iran's election results. He then scraps the missile shield program and seemingly as a return gesture the Russians are cooperating with "suggesting" sanctions. This gives Putin a huge victory at home, he looks swell and Obama gets what he wants....cooperation on Iran.

China is the wild card and is not going to go along with sanctions. They are supplying oil right now to Iran which already violates the current sanctions... As you can see, it's a farce.....

That's the bad news.... sanctions may be the perfect solution....... for Iran. It works perfectly.

The Russians made huge profits in building the reactors. Think the Russians didn't visit that second enrichment plant when it was being built?? You bet they did...they helped build it!

So Russia plays Obama. It offers a carrot. We can control Iran. Drop the shield ( It sounds like a bad sci fi movie). Obama does. Russia backs the sanctions and PUBLICLY scolds Iran.

Meanwhile China keeps supplying Iran with what ever they need so any further sanctions are meaningless.

Obama then muzzles Israel by setting up this very PUBLIC team of nations and makes it assured that Israel will be completely isolated if they strike. Obama is saying... I won't have ur back if you attack.

The sanctions work perfectly for Iran. They now are guaranteed of no attack and they can complete their goal.

Obama is being played..... bottom line. It's going to affect us all.

 

[PadawanBater]

Better get started on that bomb shelter eh CrackerJax?

 

[Woomeister]

I believe that Israel would still attack if they believed Iran was about to strike. What would they have to lose? Oh yes, everything... I still dont think Iran would use the hypothetical nuke though...

 

[CrackerJax]

I'm just saying that Obama is leaving Israel behind.... if they do it... they will have to go it alone.

Of course it's a huge mistake, but so is the fact that they have all known about the true nature of Iran for months now and haven't simply taken action themselves. Israel will end up doing the heavy lifting and will be castigated for doing us all a tremendous favor.

Obama has been played by the Russians, and the Iranians, and the Chinese. Checkmate..

 

[PadawanBater]

I'm just saying that Obama is leaving Israel behind.... if they do it... they will have to go it alone.

Of course it's a huge mistake, but so is the fact that they have all known about the true nature of Iran for months now and haven't simply taken action themselves. Israel will end up doing the heavy lifting and will be castigated for doing us all a tremendous favor.

Obama has been played by the Russians, and the Iranians, and the Chinese. Checkmate..

If Israel or Iran strikes, the US will enter in support of Israel. I guarantee that. Iran is a country of 74 million people, a million trained troops and 10 million more that could be called up for service. Another war in the middle east would be the biggest mistake we could make at this time.

If they've known about it for months, why hasn't anyone acted?

 

[CrackerJax]

I don't think anything can be guaranteed concerning the Obama administration when it comes to foreign policy.

I think our allies are getting very nervous, and rightfully so.

Obama may be President, but as Commander in Chief, so far, he is lacking. I think he values his domestic agenda beyond everything, and views these developments as an annoyance. This is a mistake.


No one has acted because no one intends to act. What is going on behind closed doors is impossible to guess. Israel I'm sure has been trying to get the USA to take the lead. No dice there it seems.

 

[PadawanBater]

I don't think anything can be guaranteed concerning the Obama administration when it comes to foreign policy.

I think our allies are getting very nervous, and rightfully so.

Obama may be President, but as Commander in Chief, so far, he is lacking. I think he values his domestic agenda beyond everything, and views these developments as an annoyance. This is a mistake.


No one has acted because no one intends to act. What is going on behind closed doors is impossible to guess. Israel I'm sure has been trying to get the USA to take the lead. No dice there it seems.

Dude, why don't you just come out and say what you want?

Do you want military action from the US against Iran? If that's what you want, I already showed you a hypothetical scenario that could happen, I think it would most likely lead to what would be called WW3.

If not then what? What's all your warning and crying wolf been about these past months?

Seems like you just sit there and criticise everyone elses actions without ever offering any actual solutions... You're always the guy saying "I told you so" at the end, without ever having said anything in the beginning...

So should we bomb them? Should we put up more sanctions? Should we let Israel handle it? Should we do anything? What's ol CrackerJax got to say about it? Howbout some solutions this time?

 

[CrackerJax]

First all, you are losing ur touch...

I have NOT been crying wolf at all. I have been correct. I haven't been the one with my head in the sand. That's been your lot. You folks just like to wish things to happen, and ignore the patterns of deception.

Obama is truly your kind of President. The bullies of the world have sized up Obama, and are now getting their way with the USA.

I feel sorry for Europe. They have brought this on partly themselves though, and will have to deal with living with their passivity.

I've already mentioned this, and it should not even be a question at this point..... sanctions will not work. Sanctions guarantee a nuclear Iran. No reason to even consider diplomacy unless to use that tactic as a diversion for a military strike.

China is breaking the sanctions (already strong) which are in place right now!! More of the same? No, TYVM.

What to do? I think the world needs to see that the USA is deadly serious about only allowing stable govt's to have nukes. A show of severe force is needed.

What will Obama do? Not much me thinks. He doesn't have it in him. Our enemies see that much clearly, it's that's obvious.

 

[redivider]

a show of severe force is needed. you advocate abusing the people of the world.

you advocate going around forcing your personal agenda anywhere and everywhere YOU see fit. regardless of the lives lost, regardless of that country's history, regardless of anything really. you believe you're mentality makes the world a better place.

you speak against dictatorships, fascists, and totalitarians. you sir, ARE the dictator.

 

[PadawanBater]

a show of severe force is needed. you advocate abusing the people of the world.

you advocate going around forcing your personal agenda anywhere and everywhere YOU see fit. regardless of the lives lost, regardless of that country's history, regardless of anything really. you believe you're mentality makes the world a better place.

you speak against dictatorships, fascists, and totalitarians. you sir, ARE the dictator.

Thank you! Mothafucking +rep to you sir!

I was trying to get CrackerJax to finally admit his true agenda, and as I suspected, it's just as crazy as his posts in this thread!

He basically said "yeah well if it'll start WW3 then so be it, the Iranians must be stopped at all costs from developing a nuke!"


CrackerJax, are you gonna be the one on the front lines in that battle? Would you advocate this same shit if you had a kid of service age in the military?