Oh Goodie! ... More on 911 (inside job) :)

[mexiblunt]

I hear ya. And I have no idea and I'm willing to admit it. My mind is in a constant wash with 9/11. I'm slowly settling into the idea that maybe it was just allowed to happen? Since most of the cloudiness is about the report and all the other failures that day aside from the physical damage?

 

[NoDrama]

The simple computation of 63000 pounds ( 30 tons!!) of thermite that would be needed to bring down the towers is proof enough that it never happened.

Like I said, any one of these points unravels the entire 9/11 thruther mumbo jumbo.

In the end we have a very small group of ppl who don't understand how fire works. Most any qualified Engineer thinks the Truthers are misinformed and gullible. I agree.

Ummm if I only need fires on 10 floors to bring those buildings down, who says I need 30 tons of thermite? Maybe I only need 5000 pounds of it to take out key points every 20 floors or so? You can't say that it would take a huge amount of well placed charges to take the building down but yet it could be taken down by relatively small fires.

 

[fdd2blk]

Ummm if I only need fires on 10 floors to bring those buildings down, who says I need 30 tons of thermite? Maybe I only need 5000 pounds of it to take out key points every 20 floors or so? You can't say that it would take a huge amount of well placed charges to take the building down but yet it could be taken down by relatively small fires.

i'm gonna go slow because i am stupid.

how did they ignite the thermite?

 

[CrackerJax]

I think instead of your maybe's and if's.... I'll go with the explosive experts.

The conspiracy has far too many holes in it to be considered valid.

Of course like any good science.... the first flaw revealed dispels the theory.

So, this means................ drum roll. .......................... you aren't on the side of good science. Your side is filled with professional and political HACKS.

Good Company indeed.

I'll side with the NYPD and the NYFD and the other 10000 or so eye witnesses.

All the qualified ppl that were there that day DISAGREE with you.... that's a real clue to how far off base you really are.

 

[NoDrama]

i'm gonna go slow because i am stupid.

how did they ignite the thermite?

I would think they would use a common wireless initiation device, something like this:

Thats a HiExTeleblaster II Remote Blast initiation system. No wires needed, no det cord strung out everywhere needed either. Initiate Instantly or delayed, its all programmable for multiple uses.

 

[fdd2blk]

I would think they would use a common wireless initiation device, something like this:

Thats a HiExTeleblaster II Remote Blast initiation system. No wires needed, no det cord strung out everywhere needed either. Initiate Instantly or delayed, its all programmable for multiple uses.

would that have burnt up in building #7?

 

[CrackerJax]

If you actually read my large post, you wouldn't even bother with the Thermite.

It's a weak argument with NO evidence of any kind.

Hey but don't let that stop you!! You're.... why you're inventing the real truth!!

 

[NoDrama]

If you actually read my large post, you wouldn't even bother with the Thermite.

It's a weak argument with NO evidence of any kind.

Hey but don't let that stop you!! You're.... why you're inventing the real truth!!

Your right, there is no evidence of THERMITE. Just NANO THERMITE of which they have plenty of evidence of that.

 

[mexiblunt]

Nano-super thermite! Why is everyone hung up on regular old thermite? Anyone looked into this stuff and who can or could make/use it in 2001. This stuff can be painted on.

 

[CrackerJax]

Actually, the Nano thermite is an even weaker explanation.

Of course you, like all ppl wrapped up in a conspiracy of circular logic ( a common malady of the religious by the way), you ignore all the other data which blows holes all through your theory.

If you can find just ONE piece that can't be explained, then your still in the game. WRONG!!!!

That's not the way logic works.

that's not the way science works.

The Truthers are not using good science, and everyone sees it except a few fringe elements who are somehow personally wrapped up in mistrust and delusional thinking.

 

[wyteboi]

Nano Thermite WAS found in the dust....
Where did it come from? Did they store it there or somthin?
Are you saying i am "crazy" for asking a simple question that you nor me can answer so dont that make us BOTH crazy?
And the 80,000 folks in NY (thats includes NYPD and NYFD and eye witness's) Are they all just "crazy"? we all get our info from the same place dont we?

 

[RickWhite]

OK, this has gone way too far. All you truther idiots are doing is repeating the same old tired arguments over and over regardless of the fact that we have disproved every claim you have made. And every time someone posts something you can't refute you just pretend you didn't see it and repeat yourself again.

None of you have provided a single logical argument. None of you are doing anything to advance your position or offer anything new. The only thing you guys are doing is providing mindless contradiction and restating logical fallacies over and over and over and over and over. And you do this despite the fact that I explained the fallacious nature of your statements numerous times. All you do is ignore what doesn't fit your theory and hope it goes away.

I am done here and I encourage all the other sane, rational posters to stop wasting your time. These truthers obviously have mental issues and they are obviously incapable of viewing the issue with reason. Even though we have mopped the floor with these morons, none of us will ever convince them of the truth because they don't care what the truth is. They want or need to believe 911 was a conspiracy and they will never accept anything else regardless of how conclusive the proof is.

 

[CrackerJax]

Okay, I tried to tell you not to go to Nano Thermite. Of course you all ignore all the rest of the GAPING holes in your logic. It's non-sense.

here's ur nano thermite answer....

Thermite was found at Ground Zero

FALSE


Only Elements "Associated" With Thermite Were Found

The claim that Thermate (or thermite) was discovered at Ground Zero arose from tests Professor Steven Jones performed.



He reported finding chemicals that are *associated* with thermite, and suggested:

-----JONES QUOTE ON--------
We (3 physicists and a geologist) have conducted Energy Dispersive Spectroscopy (EDS), also X-ray Fluorescence (XRF) and Electron Microprobe analyses on residue samples from the scene.

• We identify predominately iron, with very little chromium, along with uncommon chemical elements in abundance such as fluorine and manganese. Aluminum and sulfur are present (expected from thermate reactions).

• 1,3 Diphenylpropane was observed in dust, and interesting bit of possibly corroborative evidence.

• The results, coupled with visual evidence at the scene such as the flowing yellow-hot liquid metal still red after falling about 500 feet (150 m, discussed earlier), provide compelling evidence that thermite reaction compounds (aluminothermics) were used, meaning thermite was deliberately placed in both WTC Towers and WTC 7.
Journal of 911 Studies Source
-------JONES QUOTE OFF--------------
How reasonable was this conclusion?

Let's see if there was any other evidence (or lack of evidence) that Jones overlooked.
Professor Jones found Sulfur on his metal samples. Sulfur is also a major component of the gypsum found in drywall used in the construction of modern office buildings. Jones' analysis occurred within the context of substantial quantities of sulfur supplied by the disintegration of many tons of drywall. Thermate does not initiate a chain reaction or continuing combustion. Thermate burns hot by exhausting its fuel within a few seconds or minutes. Once its specialized fuel is consumed, the thermate reaction terminates.[1]
Thermate is the specific name for the formulation used by the U.S. military, and is composed of thermite (68.7%), barium nitrate (29%), sulphur (2%), and fillers (0.3%). It is used as an incendiary device (the Barium nitrate increases the incendiary effect) and can be used for welding.

Thermite, by itself, (which Professor Jones is talking about) has a small radius of effect and burns with little flame. Thermate is specially formulated to increases the flame and burn radius.
Where's the Barium Nitrate?

Jones didn't report any Barium Nitrate, another element associated with Thermate reactions. Some have claimed that the lack of the Barium Nitrate is telling because it is a much more significant part of Thermate reactions. However, Thermite with Barium Nitrate as accelerant would not be amenable to column cutting as it is causes an explosive exothermic reaction.

Steven Jones responded:
""It is true that the military form of thermate, thermate-TH-3, contains a large amount of barium nitrate. I never said I had found the signature of thermate-TH-3. Rather, as I explained in my talk, variations are easily done using aluminum, sulfur, and various metal oxides and oxidizers, and what I've shown evidence for is the basic signature of thermite/thermate-analogs."
Any Other Possible Sources for These Elements?

There is no clear evidence that the elements Jones reported finding were found in proportions that match what you’d expect from a Thermate reaction. So we must ask, are there other sources for the elements he did find?

Jones main concern was finding what he called, "uncommon chemical elements in abundance". But with the destruction of such a large building one would expect to find a wide range of elements that may be uncommon elsewhere. This is exactly what happened.

A USGS study listed the following major elements discovered in samples of WTC dust: Silicon, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Iron, Aluminum, Carbon (organic and carbonate), Sodium, Potassium, Titanium, Manganese, and Phosphorus. The study reported these elements without mentioning that any of them were out of the ordinary. Four of these elements were reported by Professor Jones as possible indicators for thermate (Sulfur, Potassium, Titanium, Manganese), but the authors of the USGS survey didn't seem to require any alternative explanation for them at all.

-----QUOTE ON-------
The total element compositions of the dust samples reflect the chemical makeup of materials such as: glass fibers (containing silicon, aluminum, calcium, magnesium, sodium, and other elements); gypsum (containing calcium and sulfate); concrete and aggregate (containing calcium and aluminum hydroxides, and a variety of silicate minerals containing silicon, calcium, potassium, sodium, and magnesium); particles rich in iron, aluminum, titanium, and other metals that might be used in building construction; and particles of other components, such as computers, etc. Organic carbon in the dusts is most likely from paper, wallboard binder, and other organic materials.

The trace metal compositions of the dust and girder coatings likely reflect contributions of material from a wide variety of sources. Possibilities include metals that might be found as pigments in paints (such as titanium, molybdenum, lead, and iron), or metals that occur as traces in, or as major components of, wallboard, concrete, aggregate, copper piping, electrical wiring, and computer equipment. Further detailed SEM studies of dust and beam coating samples are needed to develop a better understanding of the residences of metals in the samples. A detailed review of the materials used in construction, and the elemental composition of materials commonly found in office buildings would also be useful to understand more completely the potential sources and compositions of the materials in the dusts.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/chem1/
-----------QUOTE OFF----------

Another study reported similarly:

-----QUOTE ON------
The levels of many of the elements are consistent with their presence in building materials, including chromium, magnesium, manganese, aluminum, and barium. The very high levels of titanium (> 0.1%) were due to their presence in paint, especially white paint. The lead levels are elevated due to the use of lead-based paint on metallic surfaces during construction of the building. The detected lead dust concentrations were lower than would be found outdoors in older cities affected by tailpipe emissions from leaded gasoline...
http://www.ehponline.org/members/2002/110p703-714lioy/lioy-full.html
------QUOTE OFF--------

Neither study was analyzing metal samples, so can’t be directly compared with that part of Professor Jones research, but this illustrates that many of these elements aren’t as uncommon as might be suggested. And is seems there are other possible sources for these chemicals at the WTC site, which means that the existence of Thermite was not at all a forgone conclusion based on Jones' study.

 

[RickWhite]

Crackerjack, you have done a great job but it doesn't matter what you post. These are deranged individuals who will never get it. Don't waste any more time on them; its futile.

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes, but I try to pull some out of the insanity that is the "truther" conspiracy.

I also do it for ppl who read but don't post.

Maybe I can save a few of them from falling into the trap of forming a conclusion before you examine the data.

There's good science, and there's bad science. This is bad science.

 

[wyteboi]

none of us will ever convince them of the truth because they don't care what the truth is.

What is the truth rick? I DONT CARE?, there are questions you can not answer too , does that not make you just like me?

everything you just said apply's to you. I asked a question and you went strait back to the "all people with questions are nutts theory"

If you want to go back and forth with words , i am not the one (i speak from heart not from wiki or goggle), but drama seems to shut you up everytime? and please dont be "done" we need you for the cause. We are still waiting to see what reb has to say about all this. You guys have ONE professer to back you up and we show you hundreds but they have no "credibility"? its sick how you guys think.... YOU are why we are still at war.

 

[CrackerJax]

The fact remains that the 9/11 theory is rife with holes. If you are trying to convince ppl with scientific data, you have ALREADY LOST!!!!

People tend to believe their eyes. people tend to believe the Professionals who were actually at the site of the event at the time it happened. Where's all those ppl's names on your precious list? There aren't any..... your list is filled with johnny come lately's and opportunists seeking a bit of spotlight

In the end, most QUALIFIED ppl have already determined that there is no conspiracy. I can tell you from personal experience that my Father worked on the World Trade Towers, as well as all the other giant projects of NYC. My Grandad worked on the Empire State Building. They both worked on the Holland & Lincoln Tunnel. Rockefeller Center, the MET. Point being they did the big stuff, and they knew their stuff. They knew every inch of those projects. At that level of expertise, you know the entire structure, not just your trade. In their cases, both were Master Electricians and both were supervisors. They made the big decisions and then oversaw every cable run. If they didn't see it, their next in lines did. Those big projects were seriously scrutinized. It was all cutting edge technology at the time. The amount of expertise wielded into those projects could not be matched today. That level of craftsmanship has declined in this country. None the less.....


Now my Grandad has passed on, but I am sure he would echo my fathers derision of you folks. He thinks you're all so easily duped. I concur.

 

[NoDrama]

So easily Duped.

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes indeed. Your hat is on backwards and now you think you can see ppl sneaking up on you.

It's no way to live. In the end most conspiracy LEVEL 5's fit a very specific psychological pattern. None of it is good.

 

[fdd2blk]

What is the truth rick? I DONT CARE?, there are questions you can not answer too , does that not make you just like me?

everything you just said apply's to you. I asked a question and you went strait back to the "all people with questions are nutts theory"

If you want to go back and forth with words , i am not the one (i speak from heart not from wiki or goggle), but drama seems to shut you up everytime? and please dont be "done" we need you for the cause. We are still waiting to see what reb has to say about all this. You guys have ONE professer to back you up and we show you hundreds but they have no "credibility"? its sick how you guys think.... YOU are why we are still at war.

yeah, well you're fat!!!!