1oz+ per plant SoG, doable?

[tat2ue]

Hi folks,

What would it take to yield 1oz+ per plant in a zero-veg clone-fed SoG? 4 plants per sq ft.

Clones get a decent set of roots and go directly into the flowering room under 12/12.

So far yields have been kinda dissappointing, but the plants look very healthy so I don't think I'm messing up the growing...

I am looking into different genetics, get a higher yielding strains. But I want to know if there is anything else I can do to achieve this, or am I being unrealistic?

I have gotten close to 1oz per plant (dried) but not quite. My setup is clones go straight to flower once clones have good roots. also I cut larger than average clones to begin with. My setup is perpetual with 40 plants harvested every 2 to three weeks. But co2 will be a must to get some size them.

Best I have achieved so far is 33 zipps dried and bagged from 40 plants, which ain't so bad considering they came from 1/2 of a 3x8 table (12sq ft area)

 

[fatman7574]

While saying that a person can not get a large yield per plant with a smaller light in a SOG might be true it is far from a fact, as it depends to much upon the grown strains internodal spacing and other strain traits to be a definite either way. To say that smaller lights can not produce the 1 gram per kWh that a 1000 watt light produces would be ludicrous. It is cost of production that matters. That means taking into account the power used over the total hours not the watts used per each hour. A larger bulb does put out more intensity therefore more PAR at say one foot than a 250, 400 or 600 watt light however it also puts out a great more heat and therefore the light is kept further away and that lowers the PAR as PAR loss is exponential. ie at two feet away versus one foot we have representational unit loss of (2)^2 or 4 where at at one foot we only lose (1)^2 or a representaional unit of 1, at 1/2 foot (1/2)^2 = 1/4 respresentational units of PAR . This exponentail drop stars immediatelly at the bulb so it adds up quick.

As this lesser lesser intensity (and lesser heat) means the smaller light can be placed closer at a lesser loss of representational PAR units a combination of four 250 watt lights will out perform a single 1000 watt light with SOG grows even though the 1000 watt light has a greater Lumen out put. Plus with most set ups a single 1000 watt bulb will provide very uneven PAR whether placed close or at a distance especially if covering any shape much more than a square. It does not cover long rectangles as will multiple smaller bulbs. Comparing a single 1000 watt to a smaller wattage bulb is merely comparing watts per square foot and reflector quality beyond the distance of spacing of the light above the canopy. No matter how you look at the situation with HID lighting if growing short plant SOG the smaller lights have the advantage, where larger wattage lights are really only advantageous iif you prefer larger plants for some reason. Under conditions when you must pay for the intense lighting required for larger plants they have few dvanatges, Advantages such as meeting medical marijuan growing laws etc where you are limited in the number of plants etc. perhaps., or sativa strains that do not respond well to quaick SOG grows. If purchase costs are not considered and long term payback of equipment costs are subtracted to costs it just does not make I since to buy large lights as in both the short run and the long run there are advantages to a multiple of smaller lights while the only real advantage to the the larger lights is a cheaper initial investment and the growing of more costly buds on taller plants.

Of course it costs more to buy four 250 watt lights than one 1000 watt light.

Now with eight 250 watt HID lights in a short plant SOG (4 plants/sq foot) would I get a higher yield in a sealed CO2 enriched, dehumidified, temperature controlled, aeroponic grow room with chilled nutrient water then in the same room with two 1000 watt lights growing 1 plant per square foot over the same length of time? Yes. Would the eight 250 watt light SOG's provide more over a period of one year then the larger slower growing plants under the 1000 watt lights over the same year? Yes. If the 1000 watt lights were used with the same SOG would the eight smaller lights produce more than the two larger lights. Yes.

 

[greenyield]

I have gotten close to 1oz per plant (dried) but not quite. My setup is clones go straight to flower once clones have good roots. also I cut larger than average clones to begin with. My setup is perpetual with 40 plants harvested every 2 to three weeks. But co2 will be a must to get some size them.

Best I have achieved so far is 33 zipps dried and bagged from 40 plants, which ain't so bad considering they came from 1/2 of a 3x8 table (12sq ft area)

how many lights and how many watts did you use for that 12sq ft ??

are you running that aeroponics or flood and drain?

 

[tat2ue]

how many lights and how many watts did you use for that 12sq ft ??

are you running that aeroponics or flood and drain?

I have 2 tables that measure 3x8 each and are set up as ebb and flow . Over each table I have 2 1000w HPS lights for a total of 4000w. Each light is ran in a cool tube which is cooled by air from outside the grow room and vented into the attic. The grow room is 8 x 12 and is set up with a/c, dehumidifer, and co2. The temp with all lights blazing during the 12/12 period averages 82 to 87, depending on hot air output from the dehumidifer and the night time temps with lights off is at around 70 to 72 degrees. The strain is mostly blueberry from Marijuanaseeds.NL butafter cutting and growing out over 1000 plants from the mothers I have yet to get any hint of blue in any of the buds. But still the buds are nice and tight and has a very good mix of head and body stone.

 

[fatman7574]

I have 2 tables that measure 3x8 each and are set up as ebb and flow . Over each table I have 2 1000w HPS lights for a total of 4000w. Each light is ran in a cool tube which is cooled by air from outside the grow room and vented into the attic. The grow room is 8 x 12 and is set up with a/c, dehumidifer, and co2. The temp with all lights blazing during the 12/12 period averages 82 to 87, depending on hot air output from the dehumidifer and the night time temps with lights off is at around 70 to 72 degrees. The strain is mostly blueberry from Marijuanaseeds.NL butafter cutting and growing out over 1000 plants from the mothers I have yet to get any hint of blue in any of the buds. But still the buds are nice and tight and has a very good mix of head and body stone.

All right a post with emperical data other than visual. I like that.

Lots of watts/square foot for a fast grow. What are your number of weeks in the bud cycle and what is your standard approximate tube height above the canopy. What are you allowing for a maximum humidity that the window air conditioner (I asume window airconditioner)is not handling it, or are you just having excess night time humidity while the airconditioner is not running. I am running aeroponic not soil and my airconditioner easily keeps the humidity down when the lights are running and I have water cooled lights. I run only a 5000 btu airconditioner in most rooms and in the rooms where I need more cooling I run in mutiples of 5000 btu units.

I use window air conditioners as dehumidifiers also and just set them entirely within the room. I only modify them by adding some alluminum shhet metal to direct thw water to a single int for collection. Really the only major difference between a window air conditioner and a dehumidifier is that the dehumidifier blows the air conditioned air (cooled air) through the condensor with the evaporator fan rather than blowing it into the room and using a second fan to cool the condensor with outside air. I find I can get a window airconditioner that will remove the same amount of water as a humidifier for about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost and the operating cost is nearly the same for the same capacity. Cost about the same to run two small fans as one larger fan.
I usually do not get blue colors without at least a 20 to 25 degree temperature difference between day and night temperatures unless I grow a cool grow in one of my remote rooms and have night times temps below 55 degrees.

 

[greenyield]

I have 2 tables that measure 3x8 each and are set up as ebb and flow . Over each table I have 2 1000w HPS lights for a total of 4000w. Each light is ran in a cool tube which is cooled by air from outside the grow room and vented into the attic. The grow room is 8 x 12 and is set up with a/c, dehumidifer, and co2. The temp with all lights blazing during the 12/12 period averages 82 to 87, depending on hot air output from the dehumidifer and the night time temps with lights off is at around 70 to 72 degrees. The strain is mostly blueberry from Marijuanaseeds.NL butafter cutting and growing out over 1000 plants from the mothers I have yet to get any hint of blue in any of the buds. But still the buds are nice and tight and has a very good mix of head and body stone.

thanks for the info tat2ue.
i have been looking and experimenting with different techniques to improve my yield to 1gram per watt.

your 33 zips on a 12sq ft space sounds impressive although you would still be getting slightly less than 1gram per watt (if you take 33x4 for 132oz/ 3742 grams divided by 4000 watts=0.93 gram per watt.) but i use 600 watt lights, i still think it may be worth looking at this setup if i can make a homemade version.

 

[greenyield]

I usually do not get blue colors without at least a 20 to 25 degree temperature difference between day and night temperatures unless I grow a cool grow in one of my remote rooms and have night times temps below 55 degrees.

i think tat2ue means that his blueberry strain has not showed any phenotypes that ripen to a blue colour.

 

[fatman7574]

i think tat2ue means that his blueberry strain has not showed any phenotypes that ripen to a blue colour.

And I said I have not gotten the morphing to blue coloration without the stress caused by the temperature differences between night and day meaning it is really not that common of a characteristic with that strain apparently and therefore perhaps the name is an overstatement. There are many seeds of crossed strains in Alaska with stronger bluing characteristics needing less temperature stress to cause the morphing. I have not grown any that make the color change without temperature stressing if that is what you mean in questioning what I wrote.

 

[greenyield]

And I said I have not gotten the morphing to blue coloration without the stress caused by the temperature differences between night and day meaning it is really not that common of a characteristic with that strain apparently and therefore perhaps the name is an overstatement. There are many seeds of crossed strains in Alaska with stronger bluing characteristics needing less temperature stress to cause the morphing. I have not grown any that make the color change without temperature stressing if that is what you mean in questioning what I wrote.

im not questioning you or your knowledge, just giving my opinion on what i thought tat2ue was trying to explain.

 

[fatman7574]

im not questioning you or your knowledge, just giving my opinion on what i thought tat2ue was trying to explain.

I think I know what he is saying. I just have no idea what your trying to say.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Here is the issue with your option.

During cloning there is almost no hi impact light, and usually no real nutrients.

This means, that when you go to the flowering stage, there is nothing to work with. It is why Human Babies dont go from a diaper directly to puberty. This is what you are trying to do.

At the very least do a week of vegging, and you will see a huge difference. You can use your blooming lights for this.

But if the plants have no stored energy or nutes, why would you get the effect you want? An ounce a plant is not unrealistic, but it is with no vegging at all. Technically, your cloning period is a vegging period, but with no nutes, small roots, and no built up light energy. . . . . . . I am tending to think you will usually not get big results. Remember an ounce for a 6" plant is a shit ton!

 

[dontexist21]

AB Funct (sp?) gets an ounce per plant in his set up, he just cuts larger clones, 9in. I think it matters on strain, lighting, and how big your clones are when you flower. I don't see why you can not do it with the proper light and clones.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Here is the breakdown.

You can bud a clone that just started rooting. But why?

If you can stand to veg for 1 to 3 weeks, you will see bigger and better results. It is that simple. A 3" clone can be budded, but to what end? You are more likely to get more and better bud if you veg. Also how are you going to do any purning/FIM etc. if there is no veg cycle?

It can work, but you are still going to have to flower for almost the same amount of time. Even if you pull an ounce a clone(if they are less than 12" when you start I would have to bet against you), you would have pulled double or triple or more than that if you had vegged the same strain!

If the idea is time, create a cloner, vegger and flowering area. Then you can stagger your crops, and always have a bud 3 weeks or so out. If you are constantly turning clones into vegging, then trading in vegging for blooing in one area, then cropping the next area. . . and so on. You will see bigger better results quicker.

If the idea is time and space(you live with mom, at a college, roomates etc.) and you have to keep the plants small, then make sure you have a strain that tends to be small and bushy. Like blueberry or some such strain. Do not use OG, or Big Buds for this method, they love to be tall, and take 70 days just for blooming.

 

[The Good Doctor]

A few more notes on this thread.

Anyone saying something will or won't happen that have never been in your room is a bit recockulous. If you find that something works for you, stay with it.

Ultimately though, putting in the time to veg, you will see results. But there are many, many variables, strain, area, medium, light, air co2 etc. Any one of them can make or break your entire crop. I have seen 64 plants under 8 hps lights only yield between 2 and 4 pounds(which is puny for that number scale). I have also seen 6 plants yiled over 5 pounds under 1 light on a mover. So it is very hard to say with any certainty what is right or wrong. Those words shouldn't be used so freely in this conext.

It is sceintific, but it isn't science. If it works for you, then it is right!

Good luck, let me know what happens. One thing to listen to everyone on, if you want a big pay off/yield, you need to get the right sugars, and definately need CO2! ! !

 

[dontexist21]

I feel that you can use any plant for SOG as long as you start your clone at a certain height. I have seen SOG with almost pure sativas, the only thing was that the clones were started at 3-5in 12/12. SOG no veg might be better with flowering sativas if space is a issue, DrBud does it with CFL and achieves about 20g per plant in 16oz containers. Imagine using a 400-1000W in .5-1gal. Best thing is to run test on different strains and see how they stretch and work in your system.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Whats the big deal with trying to cut the veg corner? Technically speaking, when you bring plants indoors and only veg for 2 weeks, you are already cutting 2 to 4 months out of the cycle. Marinuana is a year round plant.

Like I said, you can bloom a 3" clone, but why? If you simply vegged for 2 weeks, you would get 2 ounces or more a plant with the same setup. . . considering vegging is 1 to 3 weeks and blooming is 45 to 70 days. . . it would seem you should just get quick bloomers, and still veg them. Just not as much.

Simply increasing the bucket size will not increase the yield, its space, nutrients, lights, co2 etc. . . that dictates the yield(as well as strain).

Yes you can take a 3" OG and get some sort of a bud off of it if you start budding, BUT, this is not what that plant wants. There are dwarf strains that love to be small little bushes. Go with those, and you will see better results.

 

[QuentinQuark]

butafter cutting and growing out over 1000 plants from the mothers I have yet to get any hint of blue in any of the buds

How many different moms from seed? It doesn't matter how many cuttings you take, they are genetically identical to their mom and will not display any characteristics that the mom doesn't have the pheno for.

 

[QuentinQuark]

Whats the big deal with trying to cut the veg corner? Technically speaking, when you bring plants indoors and only veg for 2 weeks, you are already cutting 2 to 4 months out of the cycle. Marinuana is a year round plant.

Like I said, you can bloom a 3" clone, but why? If you simply vegged for 2 weeks, you would get 2 ounces or more a plant with the same setup. . . considering vegging is 1 to 3 weeks and blooming is 45 to 70 days. . . it would seem you should just get quick bloomers, and still veg them. Just not as much.

Simply increasing the bucket size will not increase the yield, its space, nutrients, lights, co2 etc. . . that dictates the yield(as well as strain).

Yes you can take a 3" OG and get some sort of a bud off of it if you start budding, BUT, this is not what that plant wants. There are dwarf strains that love to be small little bushes. Go with those, and you will see better results.

One nice thing about zero veg time is that you can do a perpetual harvest under a single set of lights, the lights being shared among the different sets of plants at different stages of flowering. If you are vegging, you need a separate area because of the different light cycle.

I am slowly knocking down issues in my DWC, and getting a larger and larger yield each time with each issue that I knock down (most recently making a tweak to the feeding schedule and moving the fan farther away - HUGE difference!), but I'm still nowhere near 1z per plant. I'm determined to see that happen with no veg time. I may have to look at different genetics to make it happen.

One odd thing I see, I flower clones that are like 2 - 3 inches in height, and they finish at between 12 and 18 inches, so basically a 6x stretch. Not an issue in my space, but that seems kind of high. I do NOT have any heat issues (not anymore anyways ) and it's not genetics (Purple Kush, indica not sativa). Seems like a LOT of stretch.

 

[MostlyCrazy]

That does seem kind of high. Maybe with clones you have to start figuring stretch after they grow a node or two of their own.

 

[QuentinQuark]

That does seem kind of high. Maybe with clones you have to start figuring stretch after they grow a node or two of their own.

Oh so the standard "stretch" numbers refers to when planted from seed??