Portrait of a Traitor ...
- Thread starter ViRedd
- Start date
CrackerJax
New Member
You just don't read much credible information. You won't find the news on sites like salon.com All the figures are out there, and the majority of blame lies at the govt.'s feet.
You need to upgrade ur sources.... come in to reality.
Wavels
Well-Known Member
Of course by any objective criteria the Government is complicit in creating this avoidable collapse.
However the current MO of the Obama administration and its minions is to simply pass the old buck.
Inaccurate and quite boorish.
The role of the FHA is particularly difficult to fit into the narrative that the left has been selling. While it might be argued that Fannie and Freddie and insured banks were profit-seekers because they were shareholder-owned, what can explain the fact that the FHAa government agencywas guaranteeing the same bad mortgages that the unregulated mortgage brokers were supposedly creating through predatory lending?
The answer, of course, is that it was government policy for these poor quality loans to be made. Since the early 1990s, the government has been attempting to expand home ownership in full disregard of the prudent lending principles that had previously governed the U.S. mortgage market. Now the motives of the GSEs fall into place. Fannie and Freddie were subject to "affordable housing" regulations, issued by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), which required them to buy mortgages made to home buyers who were at or below the median income. This quota began at 30% of all purchases in the early 1990s, and was gradually ratcheted up until it called for 55% of all mortgage purchases to be "affordable" in 2007, including 25% that had to be made to low-income home buyers.
It was not easy to find candidates for traditional mortgagesloans to people with good credit records or the resources for a substantial downpaymentamong home buyers who qualified under HUD's guidelines. To meet their affordable housing requirements, therefore, Fannie and Freddie reduced their lending standards and reached into the FHA's turf. The FHA, although it lost market share, continued to guarantee what it could, adding to the demand that the unregulated mortgage brokers filled. If they were engaged in predatory lending, it was ultimately driven by the government's own requirements. The mortgages that resulted are now problem loans for the GSEs, the FHA and the big banks that were required to make them in order to burnish their CRA credentials.
The significance of the FHA's troubles is that this agency had no profit motive. Yet it dipped into the same pool of subprime and other nontraditional mortgages that the GSEs and Wall Street were fishing in. The left cannot have it both ways, blaming the private sector for subprime lending while absolving the government policies that created the demand for subprime loans. If the financial crisis was caused by subprime mortgages and predatory lending, the government's own policies made it happen.
Excerpted from:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574475110152189446.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
However the current MO of the Obama administration and its minions is to simply pass the old buck.
Inaccurate and quite boorish.
The role of the FHA is particularly difficult to fit into the narrative that the left has been selling. While it might be argued that Fannie and Freddie and insured banks were profit-seekers because they were shareholder-owned, what can explain the fact that the FHAa government agencywas guaranteeing the same bad mortgages that the unregulated mortgage brokers were supposedly creating through predatory lending?
The answer, of course, is that it was government policy for these poor quality loans to be made. Since the early 1990s, the government has been attempting to expand home ownership in full disregard of the prudent lending principles that had previously governed the U.S. mortgage market. Now the motives of the GSEs fall into place. Fannie and Freddie were subject to "affordable housing" regulations, issued by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), which required them to buy mortgages made to home buyers who were at or below the median income. This quota began at 30% of all purchases in the early 1990s, and was gradually ratcheted up until it called for 55% of all mortgage purchases to be "affordable" in 2007, including 25% that had to be made to low-income home buyers.
It was not easy to find candidates for traditional mortgagesloans to people with good credit records or the resources for a substantial downpaymentamong home buyers who qualified under HUD's guidelines. To meet their affordable housing requirements, therefore, Fannie and Freddie reduced their lending standards and reached into the FHA's turf. The FHA, although it lost market share, continued to guarantee what it could, adding to the demand that the unregulated mortgage brokers filled. If they were engaged in predatory lending, it was ultimately driven by the government's own requirements. The mortgages that resulted are now problem loans for the GSEs, the FHA and the big banks that were required to make them in order to burnish their CRA credentials.
The significance of the FHA's troubles is that this agency had no profit motive. Yet it dipped into the same pool of subprime and other nontraditional mortgages that the GSEs and Wall Street were fishing in. The left cannot have it both ways, blaming the private sector for subprime lending while absolving the government policies that created the demand for subprime loans. If the financial crisis was caused by subprime mortgages and predatory lending, the government's own policies made it happen.
Excerpted from:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574475110152189446.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
CrackerJax
New Member
This collapse took a long time to form. Congress was told REPEATEDLY to fix Fred & Fannie...... the dem's simply responded that nothing was wrong. Bush repeatedly urged quick reform.... nope.... nothing wrong.
Then it tipped over and the first thing the govt. did was proclaim it was the greed of others..... typical.... many fell for it...as they always do.
Then it tipped over and the first thing the govt. did was proclaim it was the greed of others..... typical.... many fell for it...as they always do.
medicineman
New Member
So you are absolving all those on wall street and all the banks, Banksters and thieves, incredible.Of course by any objective criteria the Government is complicit in creating this avoidable collapse.
However the current MO of the Obama administration and its minions is to simply pass the old buck.
Inaccurate and quite boorish.
The role of the FHA is particularly difficult to fit into the narrative that the left has been selling. While it might be argued that Fannie and Freddie and insured banks were profit-seekers because they were shareholder-owned, what can explain the fact that the FHAa government agencywas guaranteeing the same bad mortgages that the unregulated mortgage brokers were supposedly creating through predatory lending?
The answer, of course, is that it was government policy for these poor quality loans to be made. Since the early 1990s, the government has been attempting to expand home ownership in full disregard of the prudent lending principles that had previously governed the U.S. mortgage market. Now the motives of the GSEs fall into place. Fannie and Freddie were subject to "affordable housing" regulations, issued by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), which required them to buy mortgages made to home buyers who were at or below the median income. This quota began at 30% of all purchases in the early 1990s, and was gradually ratcheted up until it called for 55% of all mortgage purchases to be "affordable" in 2007, including 25% that had to be made to low-income home buyers.
It was not easy to find candidates for traditional mortgagesloans to people with good credit records or the resources for a substantial downpaymentamong home buyers who qualified under HUD's guidelines. To meet their affordable housing requirements, therefore, Fannie and Freddie reduced their lending standards and reached into the FHA's turf. The FHA, although it lost market share, continued to guarantee what it could, adding to the demand that the unregulated mortgage brokers filled. If they were engaged in predatory lending, it was ultimately driven by the government's own requirements. The mortgages that resulted are now problem loans for the GSEs, the FHA and the big banks that were required to make them in order to burnish their CRA credentials.
The significance of the FHA's troubles is that this agency had no profit motive. Yet it dipped into the same pool of subprime and other nontraditional mortgages that the GSEs and Wall Street were fishing in. The left cannot have it both ways, blaming the private sector for subprime lending while absolving the government policies that created the demand for subprime loans. If the financial crisis was caused by subprime mortgages and predatory lending, the government's own policies made it happen.
Excerpted from:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574475110152189446.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
Wavels
Well-Known Member
No med.
The point that I am making is that it is at best disingenuous for the Barney Frank types to state that they share no responsibility in creating this imprudent and unhealthy mortgage market.
The deviation from common sense lending practices was induced by Barney and his cronies.
Once again a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.
And most certainly the paving crew was comprised of left leaning elected officials engaged in social engineering.
Good job!
Um, I hate to be the voice of reason here, but is it crazy to think that it was a confluence of all the aforementioned factors?
BTW, I'm not going to call anyone out by name, but as a former ABS/CDO trader and structurer, there are some laughably misguided posters on this thread who don't quite understand how things used to and still do "work".
BTW, I'm not going to call anyone out by name, but as a former ABS/CDO trader and structurer, there are some laughably misguided posters on this thread who don't quite understand how things used to and still do "work".
Hollander
Member
I don't understand judgmental people. You don't sound informative, and you're not factually stating what seems to be a case for your political beliefs. If you've got this whole presidency/leadership thing down, then you must run for 2012 office. I could handle it if they were kindly stated opinions, but it's like a penis contest. Who's is bigger and can back it with the promise of more power. It's been less than a year since Obama has held office, I'm not sure what it is that you all expected to see at this point? Our great country has many political struggles at the moment, do you really think that had the Republicans been voted in that everything would be sooo different right now? Realistically? We have a lot of things to fix. It just sounds like a few of you are trying to come off more knowledgeable than you really are. Everyone has a political opinion, we are allowed to do so in this country, but stop using a bullhorn to make a point about nothing. Have a little faith in our country and government. And if you can't do that, then move to another country where the political situation better suits you. Surely if you are well off you can make this opportunity happen for yourself. I feel sad for those of you that continue to bash the political office at this point in time. Need I remind you that the last president we had, made his own political mess. Further more, it's not as if Obama is making all of these decisions alone. There are plenty of Republicans surrounding him that weigh in. I don't even know why I'm wasting my typing fingers on this tom foolery. It's like a bad car accident, you don't want to look but you just have to. There shouldn't be a political forum on this site or anywhere that people can hide behind a computer screen and rant. Do it in public, where we can all hear and see how politically brilliant you are so that we may vote for you to run our country and make all of our political problems go away. In the mean time, I'm trying to become better at horticulture which is why I came to RIU, so if you want to debate the strength of a strain, I'm down. Otherwise, I will look for your savvy political knowledge in the polls.....
p.s.
I'm right handed but I pass to the left, so what does that make my political stance?
p.s.
I'm right handed but I pass to the left, so what does that make my political stance?
Hollander
Member
Thank you, Mr. Smith. Thank you.
I didn't even realize there was a "politics" forum on this site until today, and after reading over a few of the "threads", I can't imagine who would ever want to engage in a debate with some of the lunatics who post there (from both sides, not just the left or the right).
God bless all of you; I certainly couldn't do it.
God bless all of you; I certainly couldn't do it.
medicineman
New Member
Just as a side note, anyone that actually believes Wall street, is a legitimate concern, must be on shrooms or some other psychadelic. Wall street is the largest ponzi scheme of all. They make money by taking it from someone else then betting on stocks, sort of like if a guy goes to the horse races but first borrows the money from some dumb ass. Plus there are all sorts of games played on that evil street, mostly to make the rich even richer. show me the average guy who retired off of wall street and I'll show you 500 that lost their asses.
CrackerJax
New Member
wow, ur like a financial guru Med man... tell me more!!! like a super genius!! You must obviously work at a think tank!! Obviously.....
I do not believe "Greed" itself is altogether to blame.
Surely the bankers have some sence of self preservation, No?
Why would they make very dangerous loans that I'm sure they knew full well were dangerous.
If someone hadn't made promises to cover their asses.
Someone, IMO the FED, told their buddies on Wallstreet don't worry.
The FED told them "We know its dangerous but we will cover you if things go bad, OK?"
So the regular bankers said "Really? Ok we will keep doin' it then."
Hey Cracker you do seem pleased with yourself.
But you don't have to explain shit to me.
Surely the bankers have some sence of self preservation, No?
Why would they make very dangerous loans that I'm sure they knew full well were dangerous.
If someone hadn't made promises to cover their asses.
Someone, IMO the FED, told their buddies on Wallstreet don't worry.
The FED told them "We know its dangerous but we will cover you if things go bad, OK?"
So the regular bankers said "Really? Ok we will keep doin' it then."
Hey Cracker you do seem pleased with yourself.
But you don't have to explain shit to me.
CrackerJax
New Member
I'm just so blown away by his mind boggling razor sharp focus on economic principles.
If he's not on a govt. committee, he should be.
If he's not on a govt. committee, he should be.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Actually what happens is that the lenders make these risky loans, then they bundle them up and sell them to the highest bidder (other lenders). Whoever buys the bundles of risky loans then has to turn around and purchase INSURANCE on those loans (sold by yet another lender). If those loans go belly-up, the INSURER is on the hook just as much as (if not more than) the lender who holds the loans. If the loans don't go belly-up, the insurer keeps getting a payment to continue insuring the loans, which earns them money.
Not all risky loans are backed by the FED, by the way. The lenders made an assumption that IF these bundles of loans started to go belly-up, the government would bail them out. Obviously, this turned out not to be the case (Bear Stearns ring a bell?), and the collapse of one lender essentially starts a domino effect that ripples through the entire financial sector. THAT'S when the FED stepped in and started loaning money to these lenders who were in trouble, and the lenders turned around and used the money in exactly the same way that they had been, buying these bundles of bad loans. D'OH.
I keep posting this, and people keep ignoring it and arguing non-issues and blatant falsehoods.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/
Med is right, it's a freaking Ponzi scheme.
Beginning with the collapse of Bear Stearns, "Inside The Meltdown" (2009) describes financial events that gripped Wall Street and the U.S. federal government, in 2008. The solvency of even bigger institutions is also examined, including Fannie May, Freddie Mac, Lehman Brothers, and AIG. Government, Wall Street, and media insiders give their views on what happened. Interviewees include: Barney Frank, Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, David Faber, anchor of CNBC, several executives associated with Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, financial writers for the N.Y. Times, an NYU economist, and others.
Sticky1cky
Active Member
I dont understand how some of you can argue about which political party is better. Its become pretty obvious that both parties are working toward the same goal of destroying the principles that this country was founded on. any policies that were created under the bush admin have either been supported or pushed even further under Obama. These false wars are costing billions every year and were only started because Sadam was going to drop the petrol dollar and switch to a different currency. the bailouts that started under bush got bigger under obama. i mean cant you see that we are systematically being stripped of our rights no matter what party is in office, or holds the majority.
Everyday people, like most of us, are getting the short end of the stick while the rich get richer. and then when some rich people start to lose money by making terrible investments with other peoples money the government bails them out with tax payer money, why? This gives no incentive for these corporations to fix their problems, they just keep on doing what theyre doing. when a company fails it failed for a reason. every one is calling these bailouts socialism, but a more accurate description is really fascism. when a small group of people can decide what companies live or die thats fascism. almost none of the american people wanted these bailouts, but the companies that ran their shit into the ground were handed billions of dollars that americans had to work hard for. the funny thing is that this was supposed to be a stimulus package but they wont even tell us where this money is going. it obviously hasnt been going towards job creation as the unemployment rate continues to rise. our whole government and monetary system is completely ass backwards. did you know that there is no law that states that you have to pay your income tax ( watch america freedom to fascism). The only thing that the collective money from all of our income tax pays for is the interest on the money that the federal reserve prints . They print this money based on absolutely nothing which creates inflation. this takes away all of the purchasing power from the dollar. inflation is essentially a tax on everyone. Now with billions of dollars dumped into the markets to prop them up the dollar is steadily losing value. WE NEED TO AUDIT THE FED! if the government can audit us why cant the pepole audit their government.
So basically the government is fighting wars to trying to save the dollar while simultaneously inflating the dollar by having the federal reserve print billions of worthless money that taxpayers have to pay real interest on. it kinda seems like america is being destroyed from within by politicians and their policies, while the american people are arguing about which party raping our country and the constitution is better. im scared for where america is headed. we really need to get our shit together and vote every politician out of office just to send a message. our government needs to get smaller. too big to fail my ass, our government is getting so big that it has to fail.
on a side note peter schiff is the man. after predicting this whole mess we are in now years before it happened he should be the white house's only economic advisor. maybe if ron paul and schiff got together and won the next election this government will again be FOR and by the people.
Everyday people, like most of us, are getting the short end of the stick while the rich get richer. and then when some rich people start to lose money by making terrible investments with other peoples money the government bails them out with tax payer money, why? This gives no incentive for these corporations to fix their problems, they just keep on doing what theyre doing. when a company fails it failed for a reason. every one is calling these bailouts socialism, but a more accurate description is really fascism. when a small group of people can decide what companies live or die thats fascism. almost none of the american people wanted these bailouts, but the companies that ran their shit into the ground were handed billions of dollars that americans had to work hard for. the funny thing is that this was supposed to be a stimulus package but they wont even tell us where this money is going. it obviously hasnt been going towards job creation as the unemployment rate continues to rise. our whole government and monetary system is completely ass backwards. did you know that there is no law that states that you have to pay your income tax ( watch america freedom to fascism). The only thing that the collective money from all of our income tax pays for is the interest on the money that the federal reserve prints . They print this money based on absolutely nothing which creates inflation. this takes away all of the purchasing power from the dollar. inflation is essentially a tax on everyone. Now with billions of dollars dumped into the markets to prop them up the dollar is steadily losing value. WE NEED TO AUDIT THE FED! if the government can audit us why cant the pepole audit their government.
So basically the government is fighting wars to trying to save the dollar while simultaneously inflating the dollar by having the federal reserve print billions of worthless money that taxpayers have to pay real interest on. it kinda seems like america is being destroyed from within by politicians and their policies, while the american people are arguing about which party raping our country and the constitution is better. im scared for where america is headed. we really need to get our shit together and vote every politician out of office just to send a message. our government needs to get smaller. too big to fail my ass, our government is getting so big that it has to fail.
on a side note peter schiff is the man. after predicting this whole mess we are in now years before it happened he should be the white house's only economic advisor. maybe if ron paul and schiff got together and won the next election this government will again be FOR and by the people.
CrackerJax
New Member
Believe me... you want the rich getting richer. that is one of the real problems with Obama... he's dampening the economy... the opportunities to get ahead are DECREASING, while the debt burden placed upon every citizen alive plus the unborn is rising at an unprecedented rate.
Just wait till oil skyrockets....and we're sitting on our hands..... the pain hasn't even begun yet.
Just wait till oil skyrockets....and we're sitting on our hands..... the pain hasn't even begun yet.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say that ALL politicians are bad. There are some who legitimately care about their constituents, it's just hard to find them in the droves of corporate puppets filling the seats on Capitol Hill.
I've yet to find a republican representative who isn't for sale (excluding Ron Paul, who isn't really a republican at all), but I could name a few democrats off the top of my head who aren't.
Sticky1cky
Active Member
i dont mean to be rude or anything but who cant see that oil is going to go way up. it was over $5 for a gallon of gas not to long ago, i feel like that was just a test spike in price and its going to be much worse this time around. countries around the world are trying dump the dollar, its going to happen within the next few years and we wont even be able to buy gas with our money. especially if we dont figure out where all this money went and people become responsible for what they took.
i dont dispute the fact that we need some rich people around so they can make sound investments toward strengthening the production in this country. its not good when they send all the money and production out of the country because they can capitalize and turn a quick profit on consumers here. if things keep going this way, no one in america will be able to consume. i just cant find a reason why companies and banks that are failing get money. when they should have died and let their formal wealth get disbursed into the free market.
CrackerJax
New Member
I encourage everyone to study a bit more economics. One of the reasons why corps do business overseas is to keep the work coming in. Now we just lost a HUGE trade deal with South Korea. The USA always closes the deal with S.Korea, but not this time..... the EU snuck away with the real plum. NOT GOOD!!!! Any business done overseas STRENGTHENS the USA.
Want to be more competitive? Quit letting the unions tell Obama what kind of trade deals we should make..... global competition is exactly that ... COMPETITION. The USA already has to pay its workers far above what other societies do...... throw in something as inefficient as UNIONS, and watch the money truly disappear from our pockets.
That's what is happening right now. We are slowing down, becoming less and less competitive.
The top 5% wage earners in this country literally carry the other 95%. You want to keep that 5% WORKING and working with the right sets of laws and regulations and UNFETTERED access to the markets.....free markets. The top 5% are the idea ppl....the ones who have education, motivation, and superior risk assessment skills. This small pool of supreme talent should always be given a clear path to the goal line. They have what it takes to carry the rest of the team.
Ppl get jealous of the 5%, but they should take comfort that they live in a country which lets everyone have a shot at BEING the top 5%. That number isn't static....it is changing all the time. The only thing harder than getting on that list.... is staying on that list. Ppl jump on and off of that list all the time. Just like the poor is constantly changing ( the upwardly mobile society we are) in the USA, so are the wealthy.
Ur right..... bail outs are STUPID!!! You don't throw the PPL'S money at BAD books. Let those corps....fail. The govt. then cherry picks who lives, and who dies... and that is unconstitutional.
This administration is the most unconstitutional govt. we have ever produced. One of the reasons for all the slippage in the polls. The American ppl are fed up with the liberal agenda..... in less than a year. A Dem voting majority in Congress has been their Achilles heel. Careful what you wish for.
Want to be more competitive? Quit letting the unions tell Obama what kind of trade deals we should make..... global competition is exactly that ... COMPETITION. The USA already has to pay its workers far above what other societies do...... throw in something as inefficient as UNIONS, and watch the money truly disappear from our pockets.
That's what is happening right now. We are slowing down, becoming less and less competitive.
The top 5% wage earners in this country literally carry the other 95%. You want to keep that 5% WORKING and working with the right sets of laws and regulations and UNFETTERED access to the markets.....free markets. The top 5% are the idea ppl....the ones who have education, motivation, and superior risk assessment skills. This small pool of supreme talent should always be given a clear path to the goal line. They have what it takes to carry the rest of the team.
Ppl get jealous of the 5%, but they should take comfort that they live in a country which lets everyone have a shot at BEING the top 5%. That number isn't static....it is changing all the time. The only thing harder than getting on that list.... is staying on that list. Ppl jump on and off of that list all the time. Just like the poor is constantly changing ( the upwardly mobile society we are) in the USA, so are the wealthy.
Ur right..... bail outs are STUPID!!! You don't throw the PPL'S money at BAD books. Let those corps....fail. The govt. then cherry picks who lives, and who dies... and that is unconstitutional.
This administration is the most unconstitutional govt. we have ever produced. One of the reasons for all the slippage in the polls. The American ppl are fed up with the liberal agenda..... in less than a year. A Dem voting majority in Congress has been their Achilles heel. Careful what you wish for.