Canna Coco, Drip Feed, 1 Gallon Pots, Floranova Nutes

[bigbillyboy05]

Hello all,
Long time reader, first time poster. I am about to begin my 6th grow. I grow in 100% canna coco 16oz cups for veg. and 1 gallon pots for flower. I plan on going with 12 under my 600w HPS. This is all in a grow tent which is air cooled and consistently 75-80 degrees. I finially got my drip system together so i will no longer need to hand water!!!!. I have been using Floranova Bloom/grow, flouralicious plus, Kool Bloom, superthrive, Phosphoload, Cal-Mag ( which i recently added) and floranectar. I HAVE HAD PROBLEMS THE LAST TWO GROWS! I NEED TO HAVE THIS ONE GO BIG TIME!

My questions are pretty simple:
1. I have read that once i transplant my 16oz cup clones to the 1 gallons to only feed 400-600mL of water solution to inspire root growth watering every three days for week1 after transplant and and every other week 2. This is of course with about 400ppm PH 6.0 and spraying 2xdaily. from there i will only water enough so it dries out daily. does that sound best approach?
From my exsperience of reading and doing, it seems you almost want the plant to get almost rootbound before flower so the coco dries out daily? is this sound like im correct?
2. It seems i can't avoid week 4 flower going wrong, when i start watering every day, the hydro store said it is a cal-mag deficieny because of where we live and the water. The big fan leaves start to pale, buds grow super slow, and eventually brown edges show. I bought some cal mag, and i think i actually nute burned my last crop because they told me 10mL for deficieny, but my plants are only about 18".IS THIS JUST TOO MUCH NUTES OR DEFICIENY? I usually kick in on week three with 1TSP floranova bloom, 1mL flouralicious, 1 drop super thrive, and then PH to 6.0, same for week 4.

Could this be nute burn buildup of nutrients in the coco even tho i get more then 20% run off every watering? is the coco absorbing too much of something causing a burn?

I read on GH website that once watering occurs daily to use 1/3 the recommended doseage for soiless mixtures? is this the best approach?

I wonder how this is possible when the lucas formula suggests to use 8mL a gallon from start of bloom to finish. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!!??


O yea, final question, my pump for my resevoir cranks out water, bout a 1/4 gallon a minute on a 12 site, any way to adjust this for the first few weeks of transplanting>???
any help will be appreciated.

This next grow kicks off OCT 28, i have 12 Grand daddy purple cuttings that have been rooting from my mother. I will veg for 4 weeks and looking realistically at a 9 week flower. I WILL HAVE PICTURES SOON!! PLEASE PLEASE HELP HELP HELP! haha thanks guys.kiss-ass<----me to everyone

 

[bigbillyboy05]

Hey everyone again, i put up my first post for further response. It is now Day 3, 3 days out of the humidity dome. On the 1st day out of humidity i gave them all 45mL of water which included 1 drop of superthrive and about 1 mL of floralicious plus, this was PH 6.0 and PPMs at 230. i have also been misting 2x daily with the solution. Today i gave them yet another 45mL of the solution, 3 days after 1st watering. They look good, despite a couple, but they all look like they are picking up speed. i actually am weighin them on a scale to record water useage, after i waterd them all today, they all weigh about 160-170grams. well see how much they weigh in 3 days. I am in 16oz cups right now, and plan of keeping them in there for 3 weeks. i plan on starting 1/4 TSP floranova grow+superthrive+1mL of floralicious plus week 2. Giving them about 75mL every 3 days. I am really trying to give them only enough water to keep the canna coco moist, because thats how i have exsperienced the fastest growth. My veg room is small and functional. I run 4 4'ft T8 florescents for my 2 moms GDP and Blue Dream + clones. 2 small pocket fans for air circulation, and the room is covered in mylar for reflective help. Shelf stays about 80ish.

Once again i am now growing in 100% canna coco, in 16oz solo cups till week 3, transplanting to 1 gallon pots, vegin 2 weeks and flowering. this is in a 4x4 grow tent, air cooled 600w, drip system.

Any advice i would love, i really do love criticism. any question or help would be awesome.

 

[yesGrowingPassionyes]

i like your setup and love how much time, love, and effort you put into your plants!. clones look great, don't worry about the dead leaves happened to the best growers, after they root they will start growing like crazy. you should check my grow im also on my first grow, but my girls are 4 weeks old, i have 6 plants(white widow, platinum og kush, abusive og kush X super silver haze and Bubba kush) i love kush .

 

[bigbillyboy05]

i like your setup and love how much time, love, and effort you put into your plants!. clones look great, don't worry about the dead leaves happened to the best growers, after they root they will start growing like crazy. you should check my grow im also on my first grow, but my girls are 4 weeks old, i have 6 plants(white widow, platinum og kush, abusive og kush X super silver haze and Bubba kush) i love kush .

thanks you. your guys look great! yea im not too worried, im sure i didnt look to healthy either when i was 3 days old. : ) well see how they do.

 

[bigbillyboy05]

i switched my veg room to 24hr. After seeing my friends room, im convinced. I watered them yesterday with 100ml of water with 1 drop superthrive and 1mL of flouralicious plus. PH 6.0 PPM 160. There going just fine. Little slower then id like, but thats just how it always is ain't it. Anyways QUESTION: at the hydro store i asked them the solution to give to clones. They said as long as they have roots, 1 TSP PER GALLON! i was appalled. i thought that would be wayy to much floranova grow for such small pllants. They said it doesnt really matter as long as PH is 6.0. It makes sense since lucas formula is 2TSP of floranova bloom per gallon start to finish. So PPM doesn't even really matter as long as your getting runoff and PH stay consistent. IS THIS CORRECT? If so i will not go 400ppm on wensday for next watering, i will be going about 800-900 which 5 hydro store owners suggested and swear by it. Pictures wensday.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ok 2 opinions on coco drip feed from personal experience and the like :
1) always run to waste. if you recirc the water you will face troubles. get over it, run to waste, throw the waste water on your garden or something.
2) you have to water enough every water that you get runout from the bottom of the buckets. you need to use more water than the bucket will take. otherwise you will get massive nute salt buildup in the pot, and things will go south around week 4 of flowering

good luck

 

[bigbillyboy05]

ok 2 opinions on coco drip feed from personal experience and the like :
1) always run to waste. if you recirc the water you will face troubles. get over it, run to waste, throw the waste water on your garden or something.
2) you have to water enough every water that you get runout from the bottom of the buckets. you need to use more water than the bucket will take. otherwise you will get massive nute salt buildup in the pot, and things will go south around week 4 of flowering

good luck

Thanks Dave,
appreciate the feedback. Right now i am hand watering while they are only a few inches, once i transplant they ill be set up in a drip system which is run to waste, i have a 30 gallon res and a smaller one under the tray to catch the access. This small res is of course not exsposed to light so it will no evaporate to increase humidity in flower chamber.

As for watering, im still gettin it down. I realize you have to get AT THE LEAST 10% run off every watering, but when they are small i have an equation to how much to give them, in order to inspre root development to fill pots, before i start watering the whole pot. The reasoning, which i am sure you have exsperienced, is because im sure you know how much canna coco can hold water wise. Since my temps are a VERY STEADY 75 degrees, my pots don't dry out as fast and my plants aren't photosynthesizing as fast. Since my low temps i can't really afford to soak the pots until the plants can suffieciently dry it out in a minimum of 2 days. Last run i soaked the pots after transplant, they werent dry for almost 2 weeks! Also i have exsperienced problems with the plants when it takes this long for the medium to dry. I brought up the idea of perilite in the canna coco, they said NO, no need, just water less and more frequently. By adding perilite, ur reducing the amount of actual medium the plant has access to. Water less, diluted mix, until the plants can take full soaks.

Example:
when i transplant my clones in 2 weeks to the 1 gallons, my first feeding will be only 400ml good for 2 dys, followed by another 400, followed by a larger third watering to wash out excess. The people at the hydro store said this is exactly what you wanna do.

ALSO:
if you read the GH website in regards to floranova, if you plan on feeding the plants every time with nutrients in soiless mixes, you are supposed to use 1/4 strenth( i use 1/3 strgh which is what GH's suggest on there hydroponics feed calendar) on what is suggested on the bottle. I also brought this up with my friends at the store and they said this is completly correct. If you would want to use full strength you have to alternate nutrients-water-nutrients-water and i assume this is to rinse the canna. I also had this backed up by the people at the hydro store.Both equations equal the same amount of nutrients in a week, either given nutes every other watering, or given the same solution divided by 3 everyday. By given them a diluted mixture every watering(everyday) will help prevent salt build up bringing on nute lock out. WHICH WAS EXACTLY I HAD HAPPEN 2 RUNS AGO, WOOORSSSTT.

Thanks for the opinions dave, when i have the time i will read your threads. Would love more criticism, and i will get more pics up tommarow after i give my babies their first shot of nutrients. They will be fed daily 50mL of water containing 1/4tsp floranova grow, 1/4 tsp floralicious plus, 1 drop of superthrive, and 1/2 a tsp of cal-mag PH 6.0 630PPMS. This is the 1st run using cal-mag every watering another issue i had to adjust is the canna coco holds on to cal and mag limiting the plants access. I was told to apply 5mL every watering once they are 10" and less when there smaller to prevent this from happening.

THANKS looking forward to the response

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ok so your on the right path, listening to people who should know (not idiots like me on a web page)

i dont know your brand of nutes, dunno how much to use. I use full strength every water with mine tho. If the shop says use less then believe them, they usually want you to use more so you buy more

i have only read bad about using superthrive for anything but clones, and i have read that superthrive greatly increases your chances of hermies. No personal experience.

I have also read alot of people saying things to the effect of never using calmag again, its shit. No personal experience here either.

things i swear by in a hydro grow :
1) part a+b veg+bloom nutes (there are many good ones out there)
2) some sort of silica additive (budlink)
3) canna pk13-14 (this is NOT a potash as people think and the name implies. Its a growth hormone that you use for 1 week of the entire grow)
4) potash for the last 4 weeks of flowering to up the P/K and lower the N comparatively
5) some sort of seaweed roots growth product. Rhizotonic is great but horribly expensive, i use Bloom Roots
6) Bloom Final. I havent seen this product by any other brand. put in the second and third last week of flowering it makes the buds go crazy and re flower adding massively to the bud. Best thing ever.

im testing out Dutch Masters Superbud too but so far im not impressed for the price. Same with an extra fulvic/humic acid additive.

 

[bigbillyboy05]

ok so your on the right path, listening to people who should know (not idiots like me on a web page)

i dont know your brand of nutes, dunno how much to use. I use full strength every water with mine tho. If the shop says use less then believe them, they usually want you to use more so you buy more

i have only read bad about using superthrive for anything but clones, and i have read that superthrive greatly increases your chances of hermies. No personal experience.

I have also read alot of people saying things to the effect of never using calmag again, its shit. No personal experience here either.

things i swear by in a hydro grow :
1) part a+b veg+bloom nutes (there are many good ones out there)
2) some sort of silica additive (budlink)
3) canna pk13-14 (this is NOT a potash as people think and the name implies. Its a growth hormone that you use for 1 week of the entire grow)
4) potash for the last 4 weeks of flowering to up the P/K and lower the N comparatively
5) some sort of seaweed roots growth product. Rhizotonic is great but horribly expensive, i use Bloom Roots
6) Bloom Final. I havent seen this product by any other brand. put in the second and third last week of flowering it makes the buds go crazy and re flower adding massively to the bud. Best thing ever.

im testing out Dutch Masters Superbud too but so far im not impressed for the price. Same with an extra fulvic/humic acid additive.

Superthrive is pretty much Vitamen B + "plant growth hormones" that are common in all plants. its good shit dude, use it on one feeding and believe me youll see some changes, it will boost you root system incredibly, thats what ive read vitamen b does.

The cal/mag was an addition because the hydro store insisted because of how low are water is in our area. my good friend works there now also and backed it up.

1) i am using a A+B nutrient system, flora nova grow and flora nova bloom. simple and cheap, very good results when i dont fuck it up
2)what would u suggest for silica add? whats the purpose>? im curious.
3)PK13/14 i have heard about in the stores, what is it exactly.? i use phosphoload which triggers flowering in week 3. It is exactly the same pretty much as dutch masters superbud, but phosphoload is better because they took it off the market. haha making it the good shit dutch master and phosphoload are great, you just need to know how to use it. i can tell you how i apply it with good results.
4) what the hell is pot ash? haha sry no idea. I use liquid kool bloom last for weeks as a ripener as i ween off the plants on nutes.
5)i used floralicious plus which contains sea weed kelp and other bacteria booster, is that what your speaking of?
6)i have seen bloom final, is it advanced nutrients line>>? ill look into it for sure dave.

and dude, im not saying im not listening to you, cause i am. i am always open to new ways of doing things until i reach that sweet science of perfect every time. i have watered the coco like soil drench and dry,but im trying to speed up the process. y watering less everyday and letting it dry out daily, greatly effects growth. Well see how my clones do after i water with first amount of nutrients tonight, there lookin a little pale, DEFINITLY time for some good ol ferts. Pictures also when i get home of flowering chamber and clones. THANKS DAVE!

 

[bigbillyboy05]

They are 1 week out of humidity today. Sorry if i go into too much detail im trying to do this in order to help everyone, and too look back on for the future.

I see roots popin out of the peat cubes and they are holding on tight to the coco, good sign there are roots and they can handle nutrients. Well except for 2 of them but their gettin there. I gave them 90mL on Nov 1st, they all weighed 240grams after that. before watering today they all weighed around 160g, except for the 2 slackers weighin about 180g. This shows me right now they are using around 30ml a day, so from now on i will water 30mL everyday. This amount is sufficient for the plant to get water and then dry in 24 hours of lights on at this size.

The mix:
1/4tsp of floranova grow
1/4tsp of floralicious plus
1 drop superthrive
1/2 tsp cal mag (Just to get some in there while their young, not planing on putting too much in there yet)
660ppms <==daily watering
6.0 Spot On

The 30mL was applied with a small dripper, i found small plants do better when water is applied slowly , and the coco absorbs in better also.
They definitly looked like they needed some food, there is small amounts of new growth, but is lime green, and the bigger leaves look like they need some nitrogen.

Id rather have them slightly deficient then nute burn : ).

I also have some pics of my flower chamber, grow lab 4x4 tent. Can fan, air cooled 600W HPS, drain to waste drip. I couldnt get home in time to get pics inside of my horrible last run, god damn nute lock out in the coco or a cal mag deficieny i just cant get them to look good haha. It was the end of my Perpetual growing just 4 plants, more like a exsperiment run. PERPETUAL IS TOO MUCH WORK FOR ME! to much going on every day, hard to keep track of all the different stages of growth, trimming, curing, cloning, veg and flower. not enough room either.
o yea and some mommy pics haha, My favorite one on the left is grand daddy purple and the one on the right is a blue dreamx cali mist breed from my buddy who bred it. GReat strain, just gettin her nice and fat for next run. both are Top Grade strains.

Tommarow more pics. Thanks everyone for reading .

 

[bigbillyboy05]

Sup everyone, hope your having a wonderful day.

Clones are doing fine, watered again 20mL of same solution as day before. They were 170gram ish today, brought them up to 185g.
Picking up Speed.

Heres some pics of my flower room and also maybe you guys can help me find out what happened to the last 4 plants in my perpetual grow.

Im running 1 600w, air cooled, 6" can fan, charcoal filter.

3x3 tray, drain to waste drip feed

temps stay 75-80

Grow lab 4x4 tent

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?
cal-mag def
nute burn
nute def.
rootbound?
salt build up?
overwater?

All these plants were treated the same, same nute schedule and waterings.

This all started week 4 and now its week 7. Leaves started to turn pale week 4, the bigger one is blue dream and the smaller are grand daddy purple. The bigger one is less affected by the yellowing but still has signs. i realize this is week 7 and yellow occurs naturally, but i am sure you can tell there something wrong. The older and bigger fan leaves are the first ones to start showing signs, new growth and smaller growth almost seems unaffected.

I tried to correct with cal-mag, didnt help too much, i flushed, didnt help, i gave less nutes and symptoms seemed to worsen, i will say less watering seemd to help the most. The bud development is awful, making me think calcium>? but i have grown this strain perpetual and yeilded 5 ounces from 3 2fters in soil so i know what it can do.



whats your ideas>?

 

[bigbillyboy05]

more pics, the one with more bud is blue dream and the dinker is gdp.

 

[bigbillyboy05]

My clones are more pale then i want, almost shading yellow.

Should i drop cal-mag?
should i up the nute dosage to 5ml a gallon? (Lucas)
look at the pics and youll see what i mean by pale looking.

They got roots for sure, strong ones, im just debating what to do. THANKS.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

white tent

the white interior of the ten ofgasses (more as warmer) and puts poison in the air which kills plants

get rid of your tent and all will be fine.

 

[bigbillyboy05]

white tent

the white interior of the ten ofgasses (more as warmer) and puts poison in the air which kills plants

get rid of your tent and all will be fine.

no, i bought the high end tent its reflective material, its not toxic, already looked into that. i do know some do that tho.

 

[bigbillyboy05]

no, i bought the high end tent, its not toxic, already looked into that. i do know some do that tho.

o yea and my clones look def. , last post i was talki bout that, think i should bump dosage up from 1/4 tsp dave?

 

[bigbillyboy05]

I tested a stronger dosage on 2 of the 15, 1whole TSP FNG, 1/4tsp flouralicious plus, 1 drop superthrive, gave those 2 30ml on top of feeding earlier, see what happens. I found this post from lucas and another on icmag.com. I think i am going to go with this approach starting tommarow.

2ml/gal FNB every irrigation, or 6ml every 3rd irrigation
> much FloraNovaBloom is needed to equal Canna's Coco Bloom forumula?

about 2ml/gallon of FNB

> I just don't want to run into silly deficiencies... (btw - I am making the switch to B'Cuzz coco mix)

Canna is notorious for Mg deficiency, and the recommend adding epsom. FNB will not be Mg deficient.

disclaimer
coco has issues with locking up P and K , canna coco comes preloaded with extra P and K, I dont know if BCuzz is different in that regard

but, yes, you can feed with 2ml/gal of FNB at EVERY irrigation,and it will not cause deficiency (or you can water with plain water every 2 irrigations, then on the 3rd watering use 6ml/gal FNB

there may be other coco specific problems related to overwatering, but, you can certainly use FNB with Coco

Lucas

 

[bigbillyboy05]

Hope everyone is having a wonderful saturday. Mine is filled with research : )

 

[#1Raiderfan420]

Do you check the ph of your runoff? I am using coco coir and notice that when are only watering every 3 days I get a higher ph runnoff than pre-feed. I start with 5.4 now. Just my 2 cents.

 

[bigbillyboy05]

Do you check the ph of your runoff? I am using coco coir and notice that when are only watering every 3 days I get a higher ph runnoff than pre-feed. I start with 5.4 now. Just my 2 cents.

no i havent, but i am gonna water the clones tonight with 5.7 until i get runoff and i will see where it goes man. thanks for advice tho, i gotta start checkin out tho man. i was thinkin PH or def in my flowering. THANKS DUDE