why do you want the government?

[NoDrama]

Are you seriously bitching about that?!?
You think people should be allowed to neglect children? Maybe we should allow child labor too?

Straw man much?

Fallacy: Straw Man ​

Description of Straw Man

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. 
   [*]Person A has position X.
   [*]Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
   [*]Person B attacks position Y.
   [*]Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
Examples of Straw Man

1. 
   [*]Prof. Jones: "The university just cut our yearly budget by $10,000."
   Prof. Smith: "What are we going to do?"
   Prof. Brown: "I think we should eliminate one of the teaching assistant positions. That would take care of it."
   Prof. Jones: "We could reduce our scheduled raises instead."
   Prof. Brown: " I can't understand why you want to bleed us dry like that, Jones."
   [*]"Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."
   [*]Bill and Jill are arguing about cleaning out their closets:
   Jill: "We should clean out the closets. They are getting a bit messy."
   Bill: "Why, we just went through those closets last year. Do we have to clean them out everyday?"
   Jill: "I never said anything about cleaning them out every day. You just want too keep all your junk forever, which is just ridiculous."

Im not bitching at all, I am only providing the facts. Since you are the one who brings up abuse and child labor are you the one wants abuse and child labor? Well, do you advocate that or what?

 

[londonfog]

Straw man much?

Fallacy: Straw Man ​

Description of Straw Man

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. 
   [*]Person A has position X.
   [*]Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
   [*]Person B attacks position Y.
   [*]Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
Examples of Straw Man

1. 
   [*]Prof. Jones: "The university just cut our yearly budget by $10,000."
   Prof. Smith: "What are we going to do?"
   Prof. Brown: "I think we should eliminate one of the teaching assistant positions. That would take care of it."
   Prof. Jones: "We could reduce our scheduled raises instead."
   Prof. Brown: " I can't understand why you want to bleed us dry like that, Jones."
   [*]"Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."
   [*]Bill and Jill are arguing about cleaning out their closets:
   Jill: "We should clean out the closets. They are getting a bit messy."
   Bill: "Why, we just went through those closets last year. Do we have to clean them out everyday?"
   Jill: "I never said anything about cleaning them out every day. You just want too keep all your junk forever, which is just ridiculous."

Im not bitching at all, I am only providing the facts. Since you are the one who brings up abuse and child labor are you the one wants abuse and child labor? Well, do you advocate that or what?

I think he just called you out NoDrama...you the one that typed that BS as basis to your argument..Maybe we should call you Aunt Sally.... Don't type it if you don't mean it..

 

[Leothwyn]

Thanks for vocabulary lesson NoDrama.
Already knew the definition though.

Anyway, having laws saying that parents can't let their kids starve to death = having a gov. that tells you how to raise your kids just seemed like a bit of a stretch to me.

 

[NoDrama]

Hey the Government also make murder illegal a lot of people should be very thankful for that.... are you against the government making laws that protect kids...They not telling me what to do because I would never let my kids go without...weak argument....I own my thoughts can't take that away..you can try to take my gun, but I will give you the bullets first..then whos ever left can take the gun from my dead hands....I do eat what I want......so I guess you know the future with health care ( hey tell me the lottery numbers will ya) ...but even if I had to pay a little more for someone who can't get health care will ..guess what I will do ... Pay it...$hit I paid for a damn war a didn't want so at least I know that this will be for some good..who the phuck heats their home with light bulbs ???? man that's stupid.... a space heater would be much cheaper...Now if you had said that you wanted to bake a cake in a easy bake oven you would have had me...stop trying to score points with weak arguments

The government did not make Murder Illegal. Man did. I do not advocate government not making laws that protect kids, I never said that, your just trying to straw man the argument. By your reasoning would you neglect your child if the government did NOT have a law against it? If there was no law against murder, would you go around murdering? well would you? I don't think we need a law telling us we need to take care of our kids, it should be a natural instinct, just as we know that murdering others is wrong even if there is no law against it. Thats my argument, but your argument is that if there were no laws against doing bad things that people would just go ape shit doing bad things. Have some faith in your Neighbor.


Do you grow pot because it is legal to do so?

The point with the light bulbs is that when you need to heat your home, you won't need to heat it as much if you use incandescent, because the incandescent put off gobs of heat themselves. Thats the whole point. When they say that Fluoros are so much more efficient they are correct, but in the winter those incandescent bulbs help to heat the home, so the fluoros would provide no net energy savings because you will have to compensate for the less heat they put out by running your furnace longer. So when you are heating your home, fluoros provide no energy savings overall. Get it?

 

[NoDrama]

We only need the government to protect this country from enemies, Protect the rights of the citizens and to enforce contracts. Thats pretty much it.

 

[ancap]

I think you're right nodrama. That doesn't mean in an ideal stateless society there wouldn't be negative consequences levied on those who abuse their children, but the idea that any law prevents an abusive parent from abusing their children is a little stupid (pardon the simple adjective).

 

[maxamus1]

We only need the government to protect this country from enemies, Protect the rights of the citizens and to enforce contracts. Thats pretty much it.

thats my point. yet it seems that many ppl want to ask the government for everything, and to have them solve all our problems.

 

[londonfog]

The government did not make Murder Illegal. Man did. I do not advocate government not making laws that protect kids, I never said that, your just trying to straw man the argument. By your reasoning would you neglect your child if the government did NOT have a law against it? If there was no law against murder, would you go around murdering? well would you? I don't think we need a law telling us we need to take care of our kids, it should be a natural instinct, just as we know that murdering others is wrong even if there is no law against it. Thats my argument, but your argument is that if there were no laws against doing bad things that people would just go ape shit doing bad things. Have some faith in your Neighbor.


Do you grow pot because it is legal to do so?

The point with the light bulbs is that when you need to heat your home, you won't need to heat it as much if you use incandescent, because the incandescent put off gobs of heat themselves. Thats the whole point. When they say that Fluoros are so much more efficient they are correct, but in the winter those incandescent bulbs help to heat the home, so the fluoros would provide no net energy savings because you will have to compensate for the less heat they put out by running your furnace longer. So when you are heating your home, fluoros provide no energy savings overall. Get it?

Dude your argument is weak..stop using strawman so much make it seems like you just learned the word and meaning...tell you what do what ever you like.... If you don't want government tear your azz to somewhere you can be your own ...and dude laws made murder illegal and depending on how you murdered someone and why you murder someone will determine your punishment...LAWS which are made by your government...now if murder was legal you damn right I would have murdered by now....but since we have laws I let the law take care of my problems...now stop with the weak azz arguments..you better then that...


edit ..look back on your post and you see you started the BS by using kids as an example plzzzzzz

 

[londonfog]

We only need the government to protect this country from enemies, Protect the rights of the citizens and to enforce contracts. Thats pretty much it.

Ok just one at a time with this one..... first one ...What do we do about the Post Office ????

 

[maxamus1]

the post office started out private

 

[londonfog]

the post office started out private

When the Continental Congress named Benjamin Franklin the first Postmaster General in 1775, the United States was a weak confederation of colonies scattered along the eastern seaboard. The postal system that the Congress created helped bind the new nation together, support the growth of commerce, and ensure a free flow of ideas and information. In the more than two centuries since, the United States and the Postal Service have grown and changed together. Today, the Postal Service fuels the nation's economy and delivers hundreds of millions of messages and billions of dollars in financial transactions each day to eight million businesses and 250 million Americans. The Postal Service is making history, too, as it helps lead the way in making the federal government more businesslike and responsive to customer needs.

do your own homework next time

 

[redivider]

Does the Government make laws about leaving children alone unattended? Does Govt make laws that you must feed, clothe and send your kids to school? well then they are telling you how to raise them.

You do not own anything, the government can take anything of yours it wants and all it has to do is lie about it.

Eat what you want, don't listen to the Gubbermint.

They will control healthcare and you will be taxed a shit load to pay for it. Maybe not at first, but give it a while, youll see.

CFL's do not save any energy at all if you are heating your home. Regular incandescent bulbs help to heat the home.

here we go,

1) the government makes those laws because it is not the child's fault there can be irresponsible parents who choose to not educate, feed, or clothe their children. the child does not have a choice as to how they are cared for or who their parents are, the parent, on the other hand, chooses to be a bad parent. the government steps in because bad parenting should not automatically place that child in line for failure.

2) i own plenty of things. the government cannot just take your things while lying about it. i don't know where you're from but in the US it doesn't work like that....

3) health care in this country is an embarrassment, change is needed, and is coming.

4) this whole CFL argument for saving and spending energy is pure bullshit. you are saying that old light bulbs help heat up the house, so that's why the whole CFL thing is pointless for saving energy?? what about summer time? how much does it cost to COOL down the house when it's 90+ degrees outside with all those incandecent bulbs running?? the purpose of a light bulb is to provide light for a house, not heat it up....

come on... if you are going to post at least make sense.....

 

[londonfog]

here we go,

1) the government makes those laws because it is not the child's fault there can be irresponsible parents who choose to not educate, feed, or clothe their children. the child does not have a choice as to how they are cared for or who their parents are, the parent, on the other hand, chooses to be a bad parent. the government steps in because bad parenting should not automatically place that child in line for failure.

2) i own plenty of things. the government cannot just take your things while lying about it. i don't know where you're from but in the US it doesn't work like that....

3) health care in this country is an embarrassment, change is needed, and is coming.

4) this whole CFL argument for saving and spending energy is pure bullshit. you are saying that old light bulbs help heat up the house, so that's why the whole CFL thing is pointless for saving energy?? what about summer time? how much does it cost to COOL down the house when it's 90+ degrees outside with all those incandecent bulbs running?? the purpose of a light bulb is to provide light for a house, not heat it up....

come on... if you are going to post at least make sense.....

OMG thank you

 

[Cloud City]

The biggest waste in Government has to be in the defense spending. Just think of all the trillions that went down the drain on just Bush's wars. We could have had free healthcare for everyone in America with that money. President Obama should cut the military and shut down all the bases they dont need then open them to the public or let homeless people live there.

 

[londonfog]

The biggest waste in Government has to be in the defense spending. Just think of all the trillions that went down the drain on just Bush's wars. We could have had free healthcare for everyone in America with that money. President Obama should cut the military and shut down all the bases they dont need then open them to the public or let homeless people live there.

yeah not a bad idea, but the old base must be able to function own its own..Maybe create some jobs for the homeless by doing so hey use the old bx/px as a grocery store...use the land for farming and such...hey starting to get something here...hmmmm

 

[Cloud City]

Does the Government make laws about leaving children alone unattended? Does Govt make laws that you must feed, clothe and send your kids to school? well then they are telling you how to raise them.

What a stretch!!!!! How is that telling anyone how to raise their kids? If you can't provide even those basic necessities to your child it should be taken away.

 

[ancap]

Cloud City,

Don't mean to sound trite, but there is no such thing as free healthcare. The funds first have to be stolen from the productivity of the free market. I'm with you on the size and scope of the military though. There is no need to have a military capable of destroying the earth 12 times over. No country has ever invaded a nuclear armed country. We only need a few nukes and several small security branches. If we stop creating enemies around the world, we'll stop getting hit back. I'm not condoning reactive strikes on civilians, but when you start mucking around in a bunch of religious fanatic's lives, you ask for their retalitory attacks. Just my opinion.

 

[ilkhan]

Most of us here support some form of government.
Unless your an anarchist you do.
What is really at question is what is the proper role of government.
Also what is the proper role of the Federal Government,
State Governments, and Local Governments.

The more power a government has over your life the closer it should be to you, IMO.
That is why things like schools should be handled locally.
Things like highways are a state matter
and things like the navy are Federal.

I have very little to say about the Navy
save I think it shouldn't be involved in wars for democracy.
I don't know the first thing about it and it effects my life very little.

I drive highways from time to time I am happy to pay my gas tax to cover wear and tear.
I am effected by highways to some extent as I get my food from trucks that run on them.
This is closer to me then the Navy and so I want a greater say in how they are run.
That makes them a state job.

I have three small kids.
They go to school.
My kids are the most important thing in my life
and so their education is important to me.
I want schools responding to me not to some functionary in D.C.

You see how this works.
The Federal governments roll in our lives should be kept to a minimum.
Protecting us from invasion and the like.

States should be doing what the Feds do or nothing at all.

Local Governments should run schools, police, fire dept and so on.
It is when The Feds meddle in things they know nothing about (our lives) that things go wrong.

I and most people on this sight are not anarchists.
So stop trying to imply we are.
Many are however minanachists or classical liberals
and we don't want to put up with the federal government involved with everything.
Or even anything not layed out for it in the Constitution.

 

[maxamus1]

When the Continental Congress named Benjamin Franklin the first Postmaster General in 1775, the United States was a weak confederation of colonies scattered along the eastern seaboard. The postal system that the Congress created helped bind the new nation together, support the growth of commerce, and ensure a free flow of ideas and information. In the more than two centuries since, the United States and the Postal Service have grown and changed together. Today, the Postal Service fuels the nation's economy and delivers hundreds of millions of messages and billions of dollars in financial transactions each day to eight million businesses and 250 million Americans. The Postal Service is making history, too, as it helps lead the way in making the federal government more businesslike and responsive to customer needs.

do your own homework next time

exactly he was the first. who did it before him? it was privately run.

 

[londonfog]

You forget one thing Ilkhan..State , Local, City, County...they all get money from the Federal Government