dduo420
Well-Known Member
hahahahahaha
Who wants bigger gov't??? Please help me understand liberals.
- Thread starter kappainf
- Start date
Hydrolicious
Member
Here you have it....
http://www.willamette.edu/~fthompso/MgmtCon/Henry_Ford.html
Why men should be allowed to persue wealth and power...
...and why men should not ever be allowed to obtain too much wealth and power.
The progressive tax is a good thing, people...
http://www.willamette.edu/%7Efthompso/MgmtCon/Henry_Ford.html
http://www.willamette.edu/~fthompso/MgmtCon/Henry_Ford.html
Why men should be allowed to persue wealth and power...
...and why men should not ever be allowed to obtain too much wealth and power.
The progressive tax is a good thing, people...
http://www.willamette.edu/%7Efthompso/MgmtCon/Henry_Ford.html
ancap
Active Member
Did you direct me to the correct page? I read on anticipating a turn in the story that would attempt to justify your skepticism of capitalism. Maybe we didn't read the same story. The one I read was truly miraculous and an example of one of the most important advancements in human history.
CrackerJax
New Member
I read the article and am dumbfounded how Hydro pulled that bit of advice from it.... 
I'll go with one of Ford's quotes which seems to elude Hydro...
[SIZE=-1]"The Depression is good for the country. The only problem is that it might not last long enough in which case people might not learn enough from it."[/SIZE]
Obviously it did NOT last long enough.... Hydro wishes to repeat it.
I'll go with one of Ford's quotes which seems to elude Hydro...
[SIZE=-1]"The Depression is good for the country. The only problem is that it might not last long enough in which case people might not learn enough from it."[/SIZE]
Obviously it did NOT last long enough.... Hydro wishes to repeat it.
Hydrolicious
Member
I read the article and am dumbfounded how Hydro pulled that bit of advice from it....
I'll go with one of Ford's quotes which seems to elude Hydro...
[SIZE=-1]"The Depression is good for the country. The only problem is that it might not last long enough in which case people might not learn enough from it."[/SIZE]
Obviously it did NOT last long enough.... Hydro wishes to repeat it.
[SIZE=-1]Ford's Sociology Department: a spying dept that fired employees if they had union sympathies, had personal problems in finance or health, gambled, got drunk.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1922: high point for Ford's sales.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1. stagnant technology: refusal to change basic Model T technology until too late. Model A introduced 1927.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]2. poor management: the practioner of social darwinism; no standardized accounting system; contempt for workers. Hosti[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]3. cronyism & gangsterism: association with dubious "yes-men." Harry Bennett's truncheons and guns.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]4. Soressen joins GM. Edsel Ford undermined.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]5. Increasing eccentricity.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]6. Plant floor run by intimidation not cooperation[/SIZE]
Hydrolicious
Member
Ford's success went to his head, and he systematically abused his employees- who would not have depended on him for employment if he hadn't so suddenly rendered obsolete the livelihood of the many (farming).
Once they needed him for employment, he abused that position and meddled into the personal lives of his employees.
If you were discovered at a bar after work HE WOULD FIRE YOU.
If you were discovered to be a Jew, HE WOULD FIRE YOU.
Its amazing to me how you can ignore obvious violations of the personal liberties of his employees...
Someone should have stepped in and told him he cant use race or religion as a factor in hiring employees... that he cant tell you that you cant drink (or smoke, hehe) when you are not at work...
Only government can stop it. Well, unions did in this case, but I'm guessing you are probably against those too....
Its Liberals who have fought to prevent wealthy industrious people from violating your liberties.
How can you ignore this and still think the "invisible hand" is going to save you? If its because you envision yourself at as an entrepreneur(as we both are) rather than an employee, then you should expand your scope and see the whole picture...
This is where the slippery slope of "less government" will lead...
CrackerJax
New Member
So, let me get this straight, the guy that made the industrial revolution possible, was anti union. SO WHAT???
Unions have run their course in todays world. There is no such thing as a worker not having representation today. Throw a rock and hit a lawyer.
The fact that you need to go back 90 years is a hoot though.
Unions have run their course in todays world. There is no such thing as a worker not having representation today. Throw a rock and hit a lawyer.
The fact that you need to go back 90 years is a hoot though.
Hydrolicious
Member
The industrial revolution would have happened anyways... he just accelerated the change... which arguably built the bubble that started the great depression...
The only reason lawyers are effective are due to regulations placed on business by govt. Without the law in place, the worker has no case to hire a lawyer for... Once again if the law is unjust lets improve it...
Repealing laws as a pure ideology is just foolish...
Also, the majority of workers cannot afford a lawyer to stand for them, so lawyers are not a substitute for unions. unions do still have a place in society. I'm sure there are many examples of unions "overstepping their bounds" so to speak, so I would certainly entertain discussion about reforming unions... but I think eliminating them altogether is taking things too far.
No, whats a hoot is the fact that you don't think it can happen again.
ancap
Active Member
Ford's innovation changed the economic landscape and paved the way for an industry that would revolutionize the world and employ millions of people. This is hardly abuse.
I am perfectly happy with Ford's freedom to NOT hire Jewish people if he doesn't like them. Same with black people. Same with tall people, short people, or handicap people. If I don't want to hire Asian people, I should be free to discriminate against ALL Asians. I should also be free to accept the consequences of such a bigoted public display.
Give me an example of Ford abusing his employees (not saying examples don't exist, I would just like to learn your definition of abuse). Thank goodness small businesses still have the freedom to meddle into the lives of their employees and demand certain prerequisites for employment which should purely be at the descretion of the employer.
Only a government or gangster with a gun can deny personal liberties, not a business in the free market. Abuse isn't a sustainable business model.
As far as unions go, I'm all for the voluntary organization of workers in an industry as long as there is not a government enforcement arm or government subsidies.
CrackerJax
New Member
It was Ford's idea that made the industrial revolution happen. You can't simply dismiss his contribution by saying it would have happened anyway. Like saying without Hitler WW2 would have happened anyway....
The laws are in place however...unions are now redundant layering which strangles the competitiveness of the any afflicted industry.
Anyone with a righteous grievance can find representation today....no communal socialist bargaining entity is needed or desired. Your living in the past.
Like I said, ur living in the past. If anything it is the left which is choking the life from the American worker. Ur very support of unions is proof enough of that. Wanna kill jobs? Vote union...
londonfog
Well-Known Member
so unions are not needed today ????? you can't be serious ...
CrackerJax
New Member
I'm absolutely serious. they're are no longer needed. They only harm the country as a whole. Just a cursory look at how Obama has blown free trade agreements (at the behest of unions), which have already cost the USA thousands of jobs. With unemployment over 10% now.... how is that smart policy?
Unions are damaging/have damaged our country.
Fastest growing sector of unions? The government.... nuff said.
Unions are damaging/have damaged our country.
Fastest growing sector of unions? The government.... nuff said.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
and on all this we can agree....I find it funny that with most people on this site I can find something that we can agree on...Heck I even find some who admit when they are wrong ( self being included )..but that Cracker that guy is a piece of work..... Unions are very much needed in this country.... I myself have never belong to one, but do see how they help out the workers...I have seen first hand how management would have stuck some of the aircraft workers had it not been for UAW....they also help to assure a safe work environment...Once again Cracker has allowed $hit to drop out his mouth to see how many flies he can get to come to it or he just likes the taste of bull$hit...
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Are you implying that public libraries don't cost anythingand that the books, shelves, heat, repairs, librarian salaries etc. don't exist? How do these things get paid for?If private sector took over the library they would charge you to enter it...then charge you to "rent" the book...Cracker are you really that dumb..or are you just really old...I can forgive you if you are an old senile man
CrackerJax
New Member
London can't see the real costs of the library system.
Any govt. operation can be done more efficiently by the private sector.
ANY program..... period.
Any govt. operation can be done more efficiently by the private sector.
ANY program..... period.
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
With the exception of the military and some infrastructure I agree, government is useless. By the way, my PhD is in labor economics and I despise unions. I will never buy a union made car or anything else I can avoid.
doc111
Well-Known Member
I used to be a member of a union. I can say from my experience that unions are all about the $$. I had some legal issues and was supposed to be represented by a union attorney and was denied because of lack of funds in the union coffers. I had paid all of my union dues on time and was a member in good standing. I saw at that point that the only thing the union was concerned about was making money and not about the members at all. Unions are more concerned about getting there membership numbers up so that they can collect dues....that's it!
CrackerJax
New Member
Unions take away individual achievement. You can be a stellar employee, but can advance no further than ur brother, who does the minimum.
The other thing about unions which actually kill jobs is their methodology for MAKING jobs.
If you work on machine "A" and you of course know that machine better than most...if Machine A breaks down, you may not touch it. Only some one specifically hired to fix machine A is allowed to. So while everyone waits for the specified mechanic to show up (even though you could have fixed it uself easily), production stops and profits plummet.
The mindset of a union is not profitable to the employer. In the end it harms the very ppl it is designed to protect.
Unions are leeches upon our society.
The other thing about unions which actually kill jobs is their methodology for MAKING jobs.
If you work on machine "A" and you of course know that machine better than most...if Machine A breaks down, you may not touch it. Only some one specifically hired to fix machine A is allowed to. So while everyone waits for the specified mechanic to show up (even though you could have fixed it uself easily), production stops and profits plummet.
The mindset of a union is not profitable to the employer. In the end it harms the very ppl it is designed to protect.
Unions are leeches upon our society.
kronic1989
Well-Known Member
F&@% Unions. Its not for the people. Its for the $$$$$.