Why is Communism bad?

[medicineman]

The colony immediately began to prosper. It prospered because each individual directly benefited by his labour and knew that he would also bear the full consequences of any reduction in output. Private ownership and capitalism worked Here I see what privatization has done, Kudos. The Capitilization aspect is not present though as capitalism is using capital to enslave others @ a minimum wage to maximum your output and hence your profit. The whole concept of capitalization is to make a slave class to work for a ruling class, hence the system we have in place here today. The plutocrats not only control the work force but also the government. A classic case of the few ruling the many. The only way you move up the ladder is by: A; being related to a ruling member, B; sucking ruling members asses(this will only move you so far, not to the top), C; Have the personality and drive("A" personality) to excell in every endeavor and have a rich benefactor. Outside of winning the Lottery, your chances of attaining wealth under any other circumstances are from very slim to none!

 

[420penguin]

ey penguin, whats ur definition of human nature?

Things that people do. Especially things that they do without any incentive. Things like this Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[themaritimer]

Unfortunately, regardless of the type of society, there are always those who "rule" and as the expression goes........ "absolute power corrupts absolutely"

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

Things that people do. Especially things that they do without any incentive. Things like this Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Im aware of the stanford prison experiment, and it exposes the social patterns of the subjects on a cultural level, not biological. the problem w/ communism isn't the system, its the peoples willingness to stick to the plan. if our culture didnt revolve around material possessions, people would be more apt to supporting a communist system. i dont think its unreasonable to believe its possible to change ourselves to do this.

weve heard "money doesnt buy happiness", and weve seen countless celebrities bitch and moan about how hard their lives are, dispite being filthy rich. yet most of us choose to be in denial, too stubborn to "give up" on this endless rat race.

 

[420penguin]

just because they're a celebrity doesn't mean that they're rich. for that matter the thing that's driving them to be a celebrity is the thing that's forcing them to never be happy. they don't appreciate themselves. instead their self-worth is vested in other's opinions.

anyhow, proof that communism can't succeed due to human nature regardless of culture is clearly evident from history. I won't cite all the nations as they've already been mentioned. A critical study of any of the communist histories will reveal that a stratification of classes immediately emerged. Most of them created one huge lower class and then promised them lots of free services. But that rarely worked. Heating in Russia was frequently turned off for days or weeks in the winter. Millions died in hospitals due to poor sanitary conditions. Millions drank themselves to death due to a live where everything was pre-determined. Where no matter their desires or talent they would be forced into one job that they most appropriately fit into. Do you realize that washing machines in Russia were smuggled across the German border for decades because they were considered anti-Communist? I'm not religious, but I would never want to live where people were forced to smuggle in their bibles or korans.

And finally....drugs. drugs were 100% dead ass forbidden in every communist nation.

Look, I realize it sounds all neat and shit. Everyone will just sit back, smoke dope, love each other, not struggle so hard in this life. But it's been tried and it sucked. It sucked really really bad. Imagine being sick with no access to medicine. Yes, I realize that health care is expensive in the US. But imagine a system where there just flat out wasn't even a single MRI machine in your city. But you fell and have glass shards shoved into your brain?

 

[medicineman]

Yes, I realize that health care is expensive in the US. But imagine a system where there just flat out wasn't even a single MRI machine in your city. But you fell and have glass shards shoved into your brain? Geeze, I have enough to worry about without worrying about falling and getting glass shards in my brain

 

[420penguin]

ok, I presented about 5 arguments. you're arguing about one of them.

how about you

a) answer the other arguments

or

b) argue about how human beings never get hurt and about how they're treated equally or better in a communist system

 

[Wordz]

Don't you all see how great communism works. Think about it wouldn't it be great if our internet was filtered to go to propaganda sites whenever you want to look at something that the people just don't agree with. It would also end the obesity problems and kill of excess population at the same time. I personally hate to think for myself and would much rather have my choices made for me.



long live the motherland

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

anyhow, proof that communism can't succeed due to human nature regardless of culture is clearly evident from history.

Thats not proof. if we were to have a government modeled after russias, itd be easy to assume that it wouldnt succeed. obvioussly that would be a bad idea.

i asked before, but i may have worded it wrong, what do you think human nature is? are you actually trying to say that greediness is somehow encrypted into our dna? most people have an inherit desire to improve themselves, but buying shit shouldnt be the standard way of doing so.

 

[krime13]

actually russia,cuba,china and the rest were all socialist,and as far as setellers it wasnt true comunism- the survivors were obviously holding out and stealing from common pot (if I was starving I would-human nature) and now the real reason why capitalism work so well...It is not because the majority of us are materialists,but no matter how pure we try to make our selves they still get us through our kids they destroyed the education sistem so you HAVE to pay for private,they destroyed publick healthcare so you have to pay for private,dentist-private,in sociallist russia the religion was never banned ,it was fround upon and severed from the state,unlike in US where christian conservatives pass more untidrug laws and start more wars than any other political body.
I belive that comunism can hapen, all we need is an allien envasion once 70% of our species are dead, the remaining 30 % will have to overcome greed, racism,religious biggotry,nationalism, overcome or DIE!!!

 

[Wavels]

Good points, well made, 420penguin!



"Human Nature" is hard wired into the human genome. It cannot be modified in any way....Communism/ Socialism, in order to exist, has to squelch the majority of our predilection for freedom.
Communism/Socialism by definition deprives humanity of freedom.
This is why it will always fail so spectacularly!

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

Maybe i should word it this way. what is the nature of being human? what are the actual characteristics that clash so badly w/ communism?

"Communism/Socialism by definition deprives humanity of freedom. This is why it will always fail so spectacularly!"

i think this is where people are misunderstanding each other. dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism : two accepted definitions are atop the list.

"a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state."

and

"(often initial capital letter

) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party."

nobody in their right mind would want to submit themselves to a totalitarian system. (atleast no one in america) when i say "communist pollicies" i am most definitely referring to the shared ownership of national wealth.

to assume such a system must be supported by an oppressive government is simply ignorant.

 

[420penguin]

Thats not proof. if we were to have a government modeled after russias, itd be easy to assume that it wouldnt succeed. obvioussly that would be a bad idea.

You neglected to quote the section where I stated that the failure of ALL attempted communist states are utter failures. You're correct, we'd fail if we modeled ourselves after communist Russia.

Now please explain which communist stucture would work for us. You're the afficionado of the idea, please present the ideal communist state or even solvent communist state that we should model ourselves after.

i asked before, but i may have worded it wrong, what do you think human nature is? are you actually trying to say that greediness is somehow encrypted into our dna? most people have an inherit desire to improve themselves, but buying shit shouldnt be the standard way of doing so.

Remember when the taught us about cavemen? The first step for the change was what? Hunter/gatherers. It is in our innate nature to take up as much resources as we can. With domestication/training/explanation that tendency can be tamed but in the end most people who are honest to themselves understand that any gain in this world is at the inherent loss to another.

Finally, if communism is such a good idea, how come non-state entities such as communes are usually such complete failures?

 

[420penguin]

actually russia,cuba,china and the rest were all socialist

Another clue that communism doesn't work. Despite many attempts in different cultures and locations, the original idea always mutated to something else.

they destroyed the education sistem so you HAVE to pay for private,they destroyed publick healthcare so you have to pay for private,dentist-private,

not true. Those services are free in many nations. They are just hard to emigrate to and demand enormously high tax rates.

in sociallist russia the religion was never banned ,it was fround upon and severed from the state,

I've been polite up until now, but I must now call unequivocal BULLSHIT on this one. I'm not kidding you that people literally had to smuggle in bibles from Germany to Russia. Even today Russia supresses new religions such as the Mormons.

Again, I'm not religious so I have no stakes in that but you're just flat fucking wrong on this count.

unlike in US where christian conservatives pass more untidrug laws and start more wars than any other political body.

Right, well you're back around to a similarity between Capitalism and Communism/Socialism. They both banned most drugs. But in Russia there is no concept of soft/hard drugs. You sell weed? You are going to jail for a very very long time in absolutely horrid conditions.

I belive that comunism can hapen, all we need is an allien envasion once 70% of our species are dead, the remaining 30 % will have to overcome greed, racism,religious biggotry,nationalism, overcome or DIE!!!

Pretty much the truth.

 

[420penguin]

"a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state."

But the people are the state. So some group of the people will have to manage that property. And they will inevitably do it to their own benefit.

"(often initial capital letter

) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party."

nobody in their right mind would want to submit themselves to a totalitarian system. (atleast no one in america) when i say "communist pollicies" i am most definitely referring to the shared ownership of national wealth.

to assume such a system must be supported by an oppressive government is simply ignorant.

"repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results." is the definition of insanity. Communism's been tried. It didn't work.

So, according to you, I'm dumb and, according to me, you're nuts. Nice to meetcha.

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

But the people are the state. So some group of the people will have to manage that property. And they will inevitably do it to their own benefit./quote]

You dont know that. have responsible people manage the property n ur straight.

"please present the ideal communist state or even solvent communist state that we should model ourselves after." (previous post)

wow, you must really think im stupid (or crazy). why would i advocate modeling ourselves after a system that doesnt work? learn from their mistakes and make something better. easy.

 

[420penguin]

But the people are the state. So some group of the people will have to manage that property. And they will inevitably do it to their own benefit./quote]

You dont know that. have responsible people manage the property n ur straight.

Please explain how the responsible people will be chosen. When those people die, please explain how they will be replaced. If the responsible people come down with dementia/depression/etc, please explain how the people will remove the previously "responsible" person from responsibility.

"please present the ideal communist state or even solvent communist state that we should model ourselves after." (previous post)

wow, you must really think im stupid (or crazy). why would i advocate modeling ourselves after a system that doesnt work? learn from their mistakes and make something better. easy.

Sure, it's easy. But I'm ignorant. Please explain what this new better than communist state is.

This is a great opportunity in this argument. If you define a new form of government you even get to name it for yourself!

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

"Please explain how the responsible people will be chosen. When those people die, please explain how they will be replaced. If the responsible people come down with dementia/depression/etc, please explain how the people will remove the previously "responsible" person from responsibility."

Voting! it would have to happen quite often, say every 3 months. every adult (18+) will get 1 vote. no electoral college bs. voting fraud/ id fraud may be a problem. in 2008 national ids will be mandatory, i hear. people would use these for voting. cell phones could be used so lazy people dont have to bitch about their precious time being "wasted". with the internet, possible candidates could be researched easily (on government-sponsored sites or privately owned.) a mandatory voting law could be passed. to receive your check your records must show that you have voted in the previous election. (youd have to actually spell their chosen candidates name, so people cant just check the top name on the ballot to get paid. this should help a little, but obviously its hard to force people to make a decision, especially if they make the decision to not make one.)

"Sure, it's easy. But I'm ignorant. Please explain what this new better than communist state is."

wow ur witty. it would still be communism, just not a bad model, like the ones tried before. and if you really expect me to outline an entire imaginary government, ur more naive than u perceive me to b.

 

[krime13]

hey penguin the bullshit is all yours for I myself been to a humangous church in Ukraine in1986 Still part of ussr, not only there were regular services but you should have seen them celebrate othodox easter,there must have been thousands of people...And this was one of many churches that functioned on daily bases in the city of a million and a half people. What about catholic monasteries west of Kiev and in the city it self (where you could purchase your very own bible) I mean theese guys stayed in buisness even through Stallin era...

 

[krime13]

Here are some Ideas taken from Communism that will do wonders for a capitallist society :
Every personruning for office must eccept a life long wealth cap ,the higher the office the lower the cap ,this will eliminate bribes corruption and special interest groups...I'll add the rest later, gotta go...