Questions on Advanced Nutrients

[couchlock907]

First of any person who knows anything about chemsitry or fertilizers should know that acalcium carbonate insoluble . Based upon that fact alone it is hard to make sence why I should naswer to anything else you might write. Secondly iI have no idea why AN cant put out a consistent product nor can I explain why their maxi bllom which is supposed to be one o part Floramicro and one part Flora bloom contains Calcium, but the analysis gurantee they themselves submitted for resitering their product does not list soluble calcium in Floranmicro nor do I know why it was not in the sample the submitted for testing nor do I know why it was not in the sample I tested. I can assure yout that it is very doubtful that three state testing labs, my university lab and my labortaory test equipment in my own home als showed no soluble calcium. For all I know they change things at will and make mistakes readily and/or often. I know that calcium carbonate if a orgainicmedia is available to the plany ts but calcium carbonate is not water soluable in inert media or aeroponics.

Here is a link to the California state test results. http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/fert2.asp?ID=5452 I really don't think they have anything to gain giving false test analysis reports nordo they gain in holding up AN registration on MicroBloom and its many other products until the gurantees stated, the gurantees on there few laebels that contain them and the test results match. The other manfacturers seem capable of accomplishing that and obtaining registrations. Maybe one day AN will be ethical and honest enough to get a few more of ther products registered. They wont accept the excuse it't proprietary information. they just wont allow it to be sold or distributed in their states. Simple enough.

I just checked Washington states Department of Agricultures lastest posting and they show Micro as containining 5.4% calcium. The AN Micro I tested about 18 months ago tested at 5.1%. I don't consider AN reliable, ethical or even near the best nutrient supplier. Of the major retailers I fing GH about the most honest marketers and their products the most consistent and reliable. They are also way to expensive but at least they are cheaper than AN. That and they don't put out all the trash formulations and supplements such as put out by AN. AN definitely does not have a good reputation amongst horticultural reasearchers in academia research labs or any state agricultural departments that I know of.

wll i was using nsr green leaves swithed to FF everything and got an extra 6 ozs same 18 plants same strain Oasis from DPassion!

 

[anhedonia]

FF soils are organic. Big Bloom is an all organic fertilizer. Grow Big, Tiger Bloom and the solubles are not organic. They all contain organic stuff like worm castings and kelp but there fertilizers are not 100% organic except for Big Bloom.

See, thats what I have always understood. Theyre organically based which doesnt mean organic per se....But this guy fatman is going to enlighten us with his inside information on what organic REALLY is. Go ahead fatman, rewrite the books...Go start your own company with your own research. Hell, shit the bed. Maby you could grow herb for monsanto.

 

[tilemaster]

ive been using sunshine or FFOF and used the FF grow big/tiger bloom on both soils succesfully, and ive used the an 3 part system succesfully. and now ive been using the sensi grow / sensi bloom a and b's... and its working in conjuction with micro on FFOF just fine. plants seem to be loving it. i agree very pricy, but if the results be there then it doesnt even cross my mind as far as expense..

 

[fatman7574]

See, thats what I have always understood. Theyre organically based which doesnt mean organic per se....But this guy fatman is going to enlighten us with his inside information on what organic REALLY is. Go ahead fatman, rewrite the books...Go start your own company with your own research. Hell, shit the bed. Maby you could grow herb for monsanto.

Don't have to rewrite the books as the books say just what I wrote. Do you not understand the term definition. I posted widely known and acceo pted definitions. That is hardly rewriting a book. As far as the definition of Organic though, that book has been rewritten many times.

I have grown more herb in my life than you will like ever see in your life chump.

 

[anhedonia]

WOW! You are a champion! I think your so cool and intelligent now that you've said that.

 

[doc111]

Dude!!!!!!!!! Get over it. To begin with saying organic officially doesn't mean squat as there are as many defintions for organic as there are snake oil products so by nutrient manafacurers. Evertime some one sneezes another product is prodi uced ab nd the term orgainic is used in a different fashion. Oraginic in one ins dustry or scientific disciplines is different than in a nother. In the fruit and vegetable industry say to be organic no chemical fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides were used in its groth. By that definition Fox Farm's nutrients are chiefly organic. In the chemsitry fiek ld if the compound has carbon hydrogen chains it is organic whether of natural origins or man made. That maens ptroleum vby definition is organic. In the biblical sense if it is of this earth it is earth organic.

Your entire argument is moot unless you provide a definition for organic upon which to base an argument. Fox Fram repeatedly says they make fertilizers and soil prepartions with orgainic based substances and mineral powders. Mineral powders by neraly evryone are considered organic. A ground up rock is about as natural as you can get. your focusing on a definition for organic apparentlly but you have not defined what you consider i is organic.

Typically in the nutrient industry if it is entirely of systrehesis and refined minerals, acids, hydroxides etc it is considered a chemical fertilizer, other wise it is typically classified as organic, regardless of waht orgainic might actually be defined as in other areas of industry or commerce.

Because of silly arguments such as yours and the misuse and abuse of the term organic and allatural for by manaafcturers and retailers the trade commission, the U.S. Department of Agriculture and most governing agencies that regulate industries etc where that term may be used have tried to control or eliminate it's used in advertising. As such it is easy to see why Fox Farm. Which solubles are you saying or arguing are not organic and again, what do you think organic means. For example is H2O organic? Is CO2 organic? Is methane gas (CH4) organic. Is ammoni organic (NH3).

1)An 'organic compound' refers to any member of a large class of chemical compounds whose molecules contain carbon, with exception of carbides, carbonates and carbon oxides.

3) Organic food raised without chemicals and processed without additives. Under standards adopted by the U.S. Agriculture Dept. (USDA) in 2000 and fully effective in 2002, synthetic fertilizers and pesticides and antibiotics may not be used in raising organic foods, and the use of irradiation, biotechnology, and sewer-sludge fertilizer is also banned. Food whose ingredients are at least 95% organic by weight may carry the "USDA ORGANIC" label; products containing only organic ingredients are labeled 100% organic.

2) the chemistry of compounds that contain both carbon and hydrogen

95% of the compounds that have isolated from natural sources or synthesized in the laboratory are organic by this definition.

Most compounds extracted from living organisms contain carbon. It is therefore tempting to identify organic chemistry as the chemistry of carbon. But this definition would include compounds such as calcium carbonate (CaCO3), as well as the elemental forms of carbon - diamond and graphite - that are clearly inorganic as they contain no hydrogen.

Basically your argument is moot as you haven't even absed your argument on a definition of organic.

First off DUDE, I know what organic means. It is a carbon based molecule. Simple. When it comes to fertilizers we usually refer to them as organic or chemical/synthetic. It CLEARLY states on FF FAQ's that they use synthetic components as well as organic ones in their fertilizers (with the exception of Big Bloom). You are trying to say that they were organic. If I misunderstood what you were trying to say then I apologize. If you are wrong and simply can't admit it then I apologize for you! Once again I will stand by my previous statement.....FF fertilizers are not 100% organic except for Big Bloom! That doesn't mean that they are bad, it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with them. Hell, I use FF fertilizers........the whole lineup! I also use their soils. I think they are great products..........but they are not 100% organic. Get over it DUDE!

BTW Fatdude, I have a master's degree in chemistry, but thanks for the lesson.

 

[fatman7574]

First off DUDE, I know what organic means. It is a carbon based molecule. Simple. When it comes to fertilizers we usually refer to them as organic or chemical/synthetic. It CLEARLY states on FF FAQ's that they use synthetic components as well as organic ones in their fertilizers (with the exception of Big Bloom). You are trying to say that they were organic. If I misunderstood what you were trying to say then I apologize. If you are wrong and simply can't admit it then I apologize for you! Once again I will stand by my previous statement.....FF fertilizers are not 100% organic except for Big Bloom! That doesn't mean that they are bad, it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with them. Hell, I use FF fertilizers........the whole lineup! I also use their soils. I think they are great products..........but they are not 100% organic. Get over it DUDE!

BTW Fatdude, I have a master's degree in chemistry, but thanks for the lesson.

Listen Dim wit. With a masters degree (I highly doubt it) in chemistry then you should no using the definition of organic for a fertilizer really does not mean jack. For a child claiming to have a masters degree in chemistry you can't even seem to come up with a real definition for organic. A carbon based molecule. Not even close. Crabonates are carbon based they are not organic. A diamond is about as pure a carbon based molecule as you can get. It even originated from an organic, but it is not organic. These simple things through a huge doubt to your claim of having a master degree in Chemistry or any other science. You are obviously sitting on the only head you think with you BS'er.

Fox Fire is known for its use of orgainic ingres dians and natural mineral powders etc. Does it also sell other formulations yes. Few ever buy them, but many buy their organic formulas and soils.

 

[doc111]

Listen Dim wit. With a masters degree (I highly doubt it) in chemistry then you should no using the definition of organic for a fertilizer really does not mean jack. For a child claiming to have a masters degree in chemistry you can't even seem to come up with a real definition for organic. A carbon based molecule. Not even close. Crabonates are carbon based they are not organic. A diamond is about as pure a carbon based molecule as you can get. It even originated from an organic, but it is not organic. These simple things through a huge doubt to your claim of having a master degree in Chemistry or any other science. You are obviously sitting on the only head you think with you BS'er.

Fox Fire is known for its use of orgainic ingres dians and natural mineral powders etc. Does it also sell other formulations yes. Few ever buy them, but many buy their organic formulas and soils.

Yes I realize that carbonates (you can't spell worth a shit BTW) are not considered organic. I didn't want to get into an organic chemistry lecture here. Doubt whatever you want. I am not getting into a technical discussion. Commonly speaking terms for fertilizers are organic and chemical/synthetic. I'm not talking about technical definitions (I realize that the term organic can be misleading) I'm talking about worm castings vs. ammonium nitrate. Organic-synthetic. I realize that many of the so-called chemical fertilizers are naturally derived. I even provided a link for you which tells you almost verbatim that they do use synthetic chemicals in their formulations. They do use a lot of natural/organic ingredients but they also use synthetic components. If you would like rational discussion to descend into an all out shit slinging contest then so be it. That's not what I'm about. I don't like it when certain people (like yourself) are giving out bad info. I corrected you (you're welcome) and you come back at me with insults. You have shown your level of intelligence and I believe that the readers of these posts will be able to decide for themselves who is correct. Good day to you sir!

 

[doc111]

Here is a link that I think most of the growers out there (who don't already know it all) may find helpful.
Organic vs. chemical fertilizers
http://www.dannylipford.com/diy-home-improvement/lawn-and-gardening/debate-over-organic-chemical-fertilizers/

 

[greenyield]

Listen Dim wit. With a masters degree (I highly doubt it) in chemistry then you should no using the definition of organic for a fertilizer really does not mean jack. For a child claiming to have a masters degree in chemistry you can't even seem to come up with a real definition for organic. A carbon based molecule. Not even close. Crabonates are carbon based they are not organic. A diamond is about as pure a carbon based molecule as you can get. It even originated from an organic, but it is not organic. These simple things through a huge doubt to your claim of having a master degree in Chemistry or any other science. You are obviously sitting on the only head you think with you BS'er.

Fox Fire is known for its use of orgainic ingres dians and natural mineral powders etc. Does it also sell other formulations yes. Few ever buy them, but many buy their organic formulas and soils.

FATMAN, every time i read a post on this site that could be of use to me or others, i find you in there creating an argument.
try to wind your head back in a little bit bro and have some respect for other people that want to learn how to get the best from their grow.

 

[greenyield]

i am interested in advanced nutrients and have asked questions on other sites.
their 3 part nutrients-grow bloom and micro contain chelated nutrients which means that they have been bonded to an ion and are much easier for the plants to absorb more quickly. i wanted to know more about advanced nutrients connoisseur as it costs £60 for a litre of two part fert A and B which is used in the bloom phase.

i like to get advice from people who have done actual grows using the products that are being discussed and what their experience with them has taught them.

 

[doc111]

i am interested in advanced nutrients and have asked questions on other sites.
their 3 part nutrients-grow bloom and micro contain chelated nutrients which means that they have been bonded to an ion and are much easier for the plants to absorb more quickly. i wanted to know more about advanced nutrients connoisseur as it costs £60 for a litre of two part fert A and B which is used in the bloom phase.

i like to get advice from people who have done actual grows using the products that are being discussed and what their experience with them has taught them.

I've never used advanced nutrients. I either hear that they are the best thing in the world or that they are shit and not worth the money. You could ask Fatman.........he has ALL the answers.

 

[d.c. beard]

Damn Gina! Calm down peeps, it's just a forum. 'Discussion' is the key word here!

But to throw in my 2 cents and prob piss off FatMan the only nute Fox Farm puts out that's organic (unless they just came out with something new, tis the season...) is Big Bloom. It says 'organic' on the bottle. Notice how none of the others do? Hmmmmmmm, maybe there's something to that.... You can also tell it's organic by looking at the stength of the NPK, which is 0.X on all accounts for Big Bloom. All the others are like 6-2-2 or 2-8-4 or something. No organic ferts that Im aware of go this high, which is why organics often tend to yeild less.

In this day and age, if something is organically made it's sure as hell gonna sport that fact on it's packaging. How else would they justify charging us double for it? ; )

 

[d.c. beard]

OH - and I had a friend who had been growing for years with Advanced switch over to Fox Farm after seeing my results. If that means anything to ya.

 

[fatman7574]

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_pom1.html

Now you can all piss, whine and moan that they are not nutrients because they are not hydroponic or aeroponic liquid nutrients but are just orgainic fertilizers. Have fun!!!

Chelates are to make the metals available for plant uptake. There are not needed in soil nutrients or with organic nutrients as the natural enzmes and bacteria serve the same function.. Thypically they add chelated iron and that provides more than enough chelates to take care of the sulfate ions such as manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate and copper sulfate.. If there is no chealted iron then one of the sulfates must be replaced with a chelated metal i.e. mangnese EDTA. There is no reason to add each as as a chelated metal. If one is a chelated metal it will have adequate chelates for the rest. The chelates are typically EDTA or EPTA .

 

[fatman7574]

FATMAN, every time i read a post on this site that could be of use to me or others, i find you in there creating an argument.
try to wind your head back in a little bit bro and have some respect for other people that want to learn how to get the best from their grow.

When people have to start sling poop because they can not read a simple add from a retaliers who goes out of their way to be try to be considered a retailer of organic products primarily by saying wrongly that they only sell one organic nutrient it is them who need to draw them selves in. They sell three or four organic fertlizers plus or ganic soil mixs, nut just Big Blom as the only organic nutrient. Here are three of the organic fertilizers everyone seems to insist they do not make.

 

[fatman7574]

Damn Gina! Calm down peeps, it's just a forum. 'Discussion' is the key word here!

But to throw in my 2 cents and prob piss off FatMan the only nute Fox Farm puts out that's organic (unless they just came out with something new, tis the season...) is Big Bloom. It says 'organic' on the bottle. Notice how none of the others do? Hmmmmmmm, maybe there's something to that.... You can also tell it's organic by looking at the stength of the NPK, which is 0.X on all accounts for Big Bloom. All the others are like 6-2-2 or 2-8-4 or something. No organic ferts that Im aware of go this high, which is why organics often tend to yeild less.

In this day and age, if something is organically made it's sure as hell gonna sport that fact on it's packaging. How else would they justify charging us double for it? ; )

Are you talking purely liquid nutrients or any organic nutrients? Blood meal is about 13-0-0, bone meal is 9-11-1, granite dust is 5% pottasium, fish meal is 6-3-3, rock phosphate is 30% phosphorus and wood ash is 12% pottasium. I was a organic green house gardener in the 1970's.

 

[doc111]

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_pom1.html

Now you can all piss, whine and moan that they are not nutrients because they are not hydroponic or aeroponic liquid nutrients but are just orgainic fertilizers. Have fun!!!

Chelates are to make the metals available for plant uptake. There are not needed in soil nutrients or with organic nutrients as the natural enzmes and bacteria serve the same function.. Thypically they add chelated iron and that provides more than enough chelates to take care of the sulfate ions such as manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate and copper sulfate.. If there is no chealted iron then one of the sulfates must be replaced with a chelated metal i.e. mangnese EDTA. There is no reason to add each as as a chelated metal. If one is a chelated metal it will have adequate chelates for the rest. The chelates are typically EDTA or EPTA .

Get over it dude. You were shown to be wrong by more than one person. Nobody said that FF products were bad or that anything was wrong with them. In plain English it says that they use synthetic ingredients in their fertilizers (except Big Bloom). And I said that they had other organic stuff like their soils and some of their non-mj related growing products. Thanks for the info though.

 

[d.c. beard]

Hey FatMan is right though about the FF dry nutes I think, I believe some of them are organic. But they still make plenty of synthetic nutes as well though.

Happy Thanksgiving all!

 

[ledgrowing]

Check out my grow if u like. Love to have ya. Imo the very best u can do for ur plants is swithch to an. If u want a very solid lineup that will give you unforgettable results as well as TOTAL plant heal I would reccommend

Sensigrow a and b
Sensibloom a and b
Micro
B-52
Voodoo juice
Rhinoskin
Bud candy
And flush with final phase...

your forgetting bud ignitior bud factor x and also overdrive thats my line up also sensizyme add those u will be rockin hard big big big buds