Was Jesus for war? Can followers of Jesus also be war supporters?

[7xstall]

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." John 13:34

Jesus gave us a very simple command. Paul later wrote that Jesus "abolished the law" of the traditional Jews with his flesh, by offering himself to God on that cross. the direct descendant of master warriors, Jesus took our responsibility for waging war away, he won everything for the true Believer.

it is not an easy task to love people who kill thousands of innocent people, as Bush and Bin Laden have but that's what we're told to do.

the truth is, humans are spiritual beings in a physical body. we live in a physical world that we can touch and see but the spiritual remains apart from our perception most of the time. sometimes we catch a glimpse but most people brush it aside. when our faith is weak we rely on the effect we can have on the physical world, with results that we can count and display. our need for validation holds us prisoner to our physically tethered ego. this is why Christians have war, for a split second we forget the magnificence and power that we are part of and we act apart from it, we act without faith.

the other side is that there is evil in the world. there are people who enjoy killing and murdering. islam is made out of lust for destruction and Death. some of those people are reprobate and resigned to eternity apart from God - they embrace the prospect of hell because they think they will get the best room when they arrive there - no one would rightfully expect the Almighty God to have to entertain them with 72 virgins once they are in His presence! they KNOW they are not going to be with God for eternity. that makes it impossible to reach them with our love so there is no reason to allow them to cause us harm. there is no reason to allow them to cut another's life short.






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[ViRedd]

7x sez ...

"the truth is, humans are spiritual beings in a physical body. we live in a physical world that we can touch and see but the spiritual remains apart from our perception most of the time. sometimes we catch a glimpse but most people brush it aside. when our faith is weak we rely on the effect we can have on the physical world, with results that we can count and display. our need for validation holds us prisoner to our physically tethered ego. this is why Christians have war, for a split second we forget the magnificence and power that we are part of and we act apart from it, we act without faith."

Excellent! If only the majority of people understood what you wrote above, the world would be a much better place.

Vi

 

[Garden Knowm]

it is not an easy task to love people who kill thousands of innocent people, as Bush and Bin Laden have but that's what we're told to do.






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I had no idea that bush killed anybody? Nor do I have any evidence that bin laden killed anybody...

Maybe airplane manufactures and the wright brothers should also be blamed for 9-11.. And maybe the people who were on the plane should be blamed... since it was THEIR desire that put them on that plane... maybe it is the people who built the TRADE CENTER who should be blamed..

maybe this is all Adams fault for shagging EVE..... there is never an end to the blame game.. there is never a solution in the blame game.. there is NEVER truth in the blame game...

iloveyou

 

[Garden Knowm]

the truth is, humans are spiritual beings in a physical body. we live in a physical world that we can touch and see but the spiritual remains apart from our perception most of the time. sometimes we catch a glimpse but most people brush it aside. when our faith is weak we rely on the effect we can have on the physical world, with results that we can count and display. our need for validation holds us prisoner to our physically tethered ego. this is why Christians have war, for a split second we forget the magnificence and power that we are part of and we act apart from it, we act without faith.

the other side is that there is evil in the world. there are people who enjoy killing and murdering. islam is made out of lust for destruction and Death. some of those people are reprobate and resigned to eternity apart from God - they embrace the prospect of hell because they think they will get the best room when they arrive there - no one would rightfully expect the Almighty God to have to entertain them with 72 virgins once they are in His presence! they KNOW they are not going to be with God for eternity. that makes it impossible to reach them with our love so there is no reason to allow them to cause us harm. there is no reason to allow them to cut another's life short.






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nobody enjoys killing and murdering...

there is no difference between the spiritual and the physical realms... it is just ONE realm.... it is all HERE... NOW...

The distinction between the spiritual and the physical is an illusion....

as you mentioned "for a split second we forget the magnificence and power that we are part of and we act apart from it, we act without faith".


most people NEVER KNOW.... they only believe... and believing in god is the same as killing your neighbor... IT is one's belief that seprates them from KNOWING an unknowable GOD.. there is nothing to believe... there is only LIFE

iloveyou

 

[undertheice]

What happened to love thine enemies, or turn the other cheek. I believe Jesus was the epitome of anti-war. Jesus came to forgive and change the premise of the old testament, an eye for an eye bullshit.

the words say peace, but there is always that underlying disgust for all that is other. keep in mind that all who do not believe as the chosen do are damned for all eternity, the believers never forget it. this is the ultimate example of the ultimate hate. it's not just a matter of "believe as i do or i'll kill you", this is a hatred that spans all time. cloaked in words of love, the faithful see all others as undeserving of paradise and doomed to the pit forever. where is the love in that?

islam is made out of lust for destruction and Death. some of those people are reprobate and resigned to eternity apart from God - they embrace the prospect of hell because they think they will get the best room when they arrive there - no one would rightfully expect the Almighty God to have to entertain them with 72 virgins once they are in His presence! they KNOW they are not going to be with God for eternity. that makes it impossible to reach....

you've just given me the perfect example. from you post i take you for a christian and here you are damning an entire group for the actions of the few who have chosen to base their faith on the worst instructions from their sacred writings. members of all religions choose those parts of scripture which they will take to heart, usually based on personal preference or the demands of their particular sect. there are muslims who espouse the tenets of peace to be found within the qur'an and yet you damn them all in one fell swoop. not only are they damned, but you see them as evil incarnate and incapable of redemption without accepting your view of eternity. is this an example of the love and forgiveness christians are so famous for?

 

[7xstall]

you've just given me the perfect example. from you post i take youfor a christian and here you are damning an entire group for theactions of the few who have chosen to base their faith on the worstinstructions from their sacred writings. members of all religionschoose those parts of scripture which they will take to heart, usuallybased on personal preference or the demands of their particular sect.there are muslims who espouse the tenets of peace to be found withinthe qur'an and yet you damn them all in one fell swoop. not only arethey damned, but you see them as evil incarnate and incapable ofredemption without accepting your view of eternity. is this an exampleof the love and forgiveness christians are so famous for?

you need to understand that i don't damn them, they damn themselves and i owe it to them to be honest about this. acceptance is available to everyone who choses it, i'm not better than them or you or anyone else. however, many of those people are reprobate, they have closed their heart to the point that no light may enter, they are just passing time here on earth before passing to hell. other muslims are not so hardened and i didn't say they are all "evil incarnate".



islam is a political system built on violence and death, plain and simple. i made athread about it and if you want to contribute something to that discussion please do. exposing islam isn't relevant to the current thread and i was just using the extremists as an example of when spiritual things can be out of our hands. a man can give up his soul while he's still alive and the body that lives on is like an animal with no conscience and no hope for salvation. there is no reasoning with them. there is no love that will appeal to them, death is their only joy.



https://www.rollitup.org/politics/9376-freedom-religion-freedom-hate.html












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[7xstall]

I had no idea that bush killed anybody? Nor do I have any evidence that bin laden killed anybody...

Maybe airplane manufactures and the wright brothers should also be blamed for 9-11.. And maybe the people who were on the plane should be blamed... since it was THEIR desire that put them on that plane... maybe it is the people who built the TRADE CENTER who should be blamed..

maybe this is all Adams fault for shagging EVE..... there is never an end to the blame game.. there is never a solution in the blame game.. there is NEVER truth in the blame game...

iloveyou

Christians are commanded to love, with no conditions. that's what i meant. we can't make excuses about how terrible people are or how mean they are or any of that.






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[iblazethatkush]

the words say peace, but there is always that underlying disgust for all that is other. keep in mind that all who do not believe as the chosen do are damned for all eternity, the believers never forget it. this is the ultimate example of the ultimate hate. it's not just a matter of "believe as i do or i'll kill you", this is a hatred that spans all time. cloaked in words of love, the faithful see all others as undeserving of paradise and doomed to the pit forever. where is the love in that?

That is not what christianity is about at all. The men who say they are christians, perhaps. But not the religion itself. Jesus told us to love and accept all and let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You should really read the bible before you going talking that nonsense. The overall message of the New Testament is to love everyone and not to judge other people, it is all about peace and not war. A true Christian would not have 'an underlying disgust for all that is other.'

 

[7xstall]

nobody enjoys killing and murdering...

there is no difference between the spiritual and the physical realms... it is just ONE realm.... it is all HERE... NOW...

The distinction between the spiritual and the physical is an illusion....

as you mentioned "for a split second we forget the magnificence and power that we are part of and we act apart from it, we act without faith".


most people NEVER KNOW.... they only believe... and believing in god is the same as killing your neighbor... IT is one's belief that seprates them from KNOWING an unknowable GOD.. there is nothing to believe... there is only LIFE

iloveyou

i agree, the spiritual and physical is in one "envelope" but it takes a different awareness to experience the spiritual aspects.

knowing is the goal but it takes faith to know anything. the knowledge that comes will confirm the faith that sought it. right?






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[iblazethatkush]

I had no idea that bush killed anybody? Nor do I have any evidence that bin laden killed anybody...

Maybe airplane manufactures and the wright brothers should also be blamed for 9-11.. And maybe the people who were on the plane should be blamed... since it was THEIR desire that put them on that plane... maybe it is the people who built the TRADE CENTER who should be blamed..

maybe this is all Adams fault for shagging EVE..... there is never an end to the blame game.. there is never a solution in the blame game.. there is NEVER truth in the blame game...

iloveyou

What the hell does this even mean? ...Seriously?...But anyways Bush and Cheney have murdered thousands of people and continue to do so on a daily basis. Should a murderer not be 'blamed' for their crimes and be held accountable? I don't understand your reasoning. But what 7x said was dead right. Jesus tells us we should even love those douches

 

[7xstall]

That is not what christianity is about at all. The men who say they are christians, perhaps. But not the religion itself. Jesus told us to love and accept all and let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You should really read the bible before you going talking that nonsense. The overall message of the New Testament is to love everyone and not to judge other people, it is all about peace and not war. A true Christian would not have 'an underlying disgust for all that is other.'

well said, there is no "chosen" - there are believers and unbelievers. none is "better" than the other, we're all offered the same gift with the same terms. there is only one way, it's for everyone willing to accept the gift.





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[iblazethatkush]

well said, there is no "chosen" - there are believers and unbelievers. none is "better" than the other, we're all offered the same gift with the same terms. there is only one way, it's for everyone willing to accept the gift.





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Definitely. Even better said-lol. No one is better than anyone else. "there is only one way, it's for everyone willing to accept the gift." Amen to that brother

 

[closet.cult]

Well culte your a little off as he didnt take on all terroist on all fronts he went to Afghanastan and Iraq the 2 strong holds for trainging al queida so he went after 1 or 2 groups all related to each others causes.This triggered supporters of the al quieda groups to join forces to help thier crazy ass brothers.

i am not a little off. let's describe what happened...

in responce to al queda attaching us on 9/11 the president started a war on TERRORISM. (that is, he made ALL TERRORISTS our enemy) he took on afghanastan and iraq FIRST. and now he has his sights set on iran and probably syria next.

this hunting down ALL terrorist for what ONE group did, (which BTW was in response to what WE did to THEM) is what makes him a warmonger. 9/11 was bush's good excuse for a big war.

 

[closet.cult]

....and how, exactly, do you go about killing the hydra? if one head bites you do you cut it off, allowing it to grow two more it its place? this is the first instance of a war waged against an enemy which has no particular home and, as such, there are no precedents to follow. it's probably a war that should have taken place covertly, but that's a big no-no these days.

simple response: direct your retaliation toward ONLY THOSE who attacked you. the idea of shifting the attention to ALL terrorist was just a good excuse for war. this is very simple.

but back to the question at hand:

if christianity can be considered an offshoot of judaism (which it quite obviously is), then jesus would have to be as pro-war as his warrior predecessors. the abrahamic creeds all share a peculiar lust for conquest and expansion and have seldom shied from bloodshed to attain their goals. though the gospels may pay lip service to the ideals of peace and forgiveness, there is always an underlying theme of intolerance toward unbelievers and an attitude of elitism that inevitably leads to considering those of other faiths to be slightly beneath the conventions of behavior followed within the society of the faithful.

no disagreement. this is why ALL organized religion is bullshit and wrong and is a catalyst for oppression and ultimately war. the blatent contradictions of god, and his followers blindly following not HIM but his religious leaders here on earth is maybe the bigest problem with our planet today.

warmongers, for any reason (money, god, power) is the next biggest.

 

[closet.cult]

I had no idea that bush killed anybody? Nor do I have any evidence that bin laden killed anybody...

Maybe airplane manufactures and the wright brothers should also be blamed for 9-11.. And maybe the people who were on the plane should be blamed... since it was THEIR desire that put them on that plane... maybe it is the people who built the TRADE CENTER who should be blamed..

maybe this is all Adams fault for shagging EVE..... there is never an end to the blame game.. there is never a solution in the blame game.. there is NEVER truth in the blame game...

iloveyou

jesus christ. there is no rationality in your arguments. just word games.

and maybe this post isn't in response to what you wrote. it's my mom's fault for giving birth to me and teaching me about consequences. or it's the lords fault for creating the universe.

 

[wax1]

great question!!!

a warmonger is a redundant term...

anybody who is for WAR.... supports war... encourages war.. promotes war...

Its redundant cause all supporters of war are war mongers....

People who believe they need war because they can't find anything inside themselves EXCEPT me me me me me me me.. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

iloveyou

Dude...Sorry to say this but not everyone for war is a war monger. That's just nuts. I support the war but don't go around drumming for war all across the world. Bin Ladin is a war monger. Hitler was a war monger. I'm sure you hate Bush but he is far from a war monger! If he was, we would be taking over countries left and right. And not just invading them but wiping them out! Most war mongers today you don't even hear about because the media is so liberal and wants to portray America, as a whole, as the war mongral and Arab countries as the mercinaries. That's crazy.

 

[surfpunk]

I think his point was: "There is no fault, shit happens ,we are only can be responsible for our own actions..." I can be wrong of corse...

 

[ViRedd]

"Dude...Sorry to say this but not everyone for war is a war monger. That's just nuts. I support the war but don't go around drumming for war all across the world. Bin Ladin is a war monger. Hitler was a war monger. I'm sure you hate Bush but he is far from a war monger! If he was, we would be taking over countries left and right. And not just invading them but wiping them out! Most war mongers today you don't even hear about because the media is so liberal and wants to portray America, as a whole, as the war mongral and Arab countries as the mercinaries. That's crazy."

^^^ Amen to that! ^^^

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[closet.cult]

Dude...Sorry to say this but not everyone for war is a war monger. That's just nuts. I support the war but don't go around drumming for war all across the world. Bin Ladin is a war monger. Hitler was a war monger. I'm sure you hate Bush but he is far from a war monger! If he was, we would be taking over countries left and right. And not just invading them but wiping them out! Most war mongers today you don't even hear about because the media is so liberal and wants to portray America, as a whole, as the war mongral and Arab countries as the mercinaries. That's crazy.

bullshit. you are so wrong. this war is an act of aggression against a country with absolutely no deffences against a power like the U.S. And the same can be said for Afghanastan. Next on the list is Iran and Syria. This administration is looking for new war targets for geopolitical control over that region of the globe.

if the terrorists were waring to control regions for their ideological reasons, wouldn't they be considered warmongers? how can you not see bush's excuses for war, as part of the PNACs ideological plan of global domination, as warmongering?

in any case, war and violence are not the answer to peace! war should be a nessasary evil, used as retailiation for the attacks on us. an 'operation: eradicate al queda' should have taken place, and ended there. expanding the operation to include ALL terrorists shows this administrations war-like attitude.

 

[wax1]

bullshit. you are so wrong. this war is an act of aggression against a country with absolutely no deffences against a power like the U.S. And the same can be said for Afghanastan. Next on the list is Iran and Syria. This administration is looking for new war targets for geopolitical control over that region of the globe.

if the terrorists were waring to control regions for their ideological reasons, wouldn't they be considered warmongers? how can you not see bush's excuses for war, as part of the PNACs ideological plan of global domination, as warmongering?

in any case, war and violence are not the answer to peace! war should be a nessasary evil, used as retailiation for the attacks on us. an 'operation: eradicate al queda' should have taken place, and ended there. expanding the operation to include ALL terrorists shows this administrations war-like attitude.

Ok man first of all I'm glad you get so excited about all of this but the fact remains that terrorists exist in alot of other places around the world. Now if that means that we go after these people around the world, should that make us evil war mongers? According to you yes. Peace does NOT work in certain situations. You should be smart enough to know that. Do ya watch football dude? How many teams do you see win with no offense? There has to be a equal balance. If people like yourself ran our country, we might as well give up all our freedoms and let you take care of it right? I think not. I'm sure you are a very smart guy but maybe think a bit before you speak.