The Stockmarket!

redivider

Well-Known Member
here's how the stock market works:

there's a type of company called a PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY.

this type of company's ownership is divided into what is known as stocks. a stock is an intangible asset to you, but to the company it is a part of the EQUITY section of the balance sheet.

when you buy a stock, you are buying into the ownership of a company, the more stock you own, the more you control of the company.

the stocks are divided into two categories: preferred and common.

preferred stocks have a guaranteed amount of dividends, and in case the company becomes insolvent and tries to liquidate, they get their share of the spoils first. (in general).

common stock has no guaranteed dividend, and only share in the spoils after the preferred stockowners have gotten their money back.

companies choose to "go public", when they have an operation they believe can grow and expand enough to attract investors, without having to have a personal relationship with them. they raise capital by going public. we call "raising capital" to raise money.

stocks have a "par" value. this is the face value of the stock. normally 1 dollar, or so. some stocks are no par stock, which have no value. When they are sold at more than their par value, the company raises capital. the accounting to achieve this says that you raise the balance of cash, raise the balance of the Common stock account, and raise the value of PAID IN CAPITAL IN EXCESS OF PAR VALUE. that excess of par value, is the extra capital they raise by selling stock.

the value of stock goes up and down depending on how the company performs. this is because a company that performs well, pay more in dividends. DIVIDENDS are a share of net income that goes back to the investors that bought those stocks. see, cuz the company can't expect people to buy the stock, to receive nothing in return. the return they receive is the dividends they give out.

the dividends are normally a cash payment, but can also be additional stock, or other forms of payment.

there's people that buy on speculation. which is to buy low, sell high. that's what happens in the stock exchanges in the U.S. where all the guys are running around with papers, and phones, and screaming.

if you choose to buy stocks, look up and memorize these three terms:

Return on Investment
Return on Assets
Return on Equity
Quick Ratio

^^ these numbers are calculated using the Financial statements of corporations. corporations are required to give financials at least once a year, to let investors know about the company's performance. normally they hand out Quarterly financials too, if they are publicly traded (quaterly's are not as accurate as others, because they are "thrown together", i've taken corporate accounting, and calculating Minority interest (another part of Equity) when dealing with parent-subsidiary relationships is extremely time consuming, and complicated).

they also give out memo's, letters to shareholders, etc. that let them know about the future plans the corporation has. nothing beats the financial statements though.

hope this cleared it up....
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
Additional things to know about stcks is whether or not they have voting power. voting power means you get to vote on the general direction of the company. THis is done by voting for the Board of Trustees. This includes the CEO, CFO, etc. These positions are typically held by people with high amounts of voting stocks in the particular company. For example, if I own 51% of a company, i decide what happens, because no matter what everybody else wants, I get majority voting power always.

common stock almost always gets voting power. Preferred stock doesn't get voting power.

and if you own stock, you should actively engage in voting when the company asks it's investors to do so. it is responsible stock ownership. even though chances are you're vote will count for less than 1% of voting power.......

if investors would've kept their CEO's in check, this disaster happening now could've been averted.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Uhhhh, not all actually understand what they write. It's a public thread, you'll have to winnow the wheat from the chafe urself.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
what didn't you understand??

you buy stocks, you buy ownership interest in a company.

company sells stock to raise money. they raise money by offering stock at zero value or 1 dollar etc..., when it's traded at 9 bux or 20 bux or whatever, that additional money goes to the company, as PAID IN CAPITAL IN EXCESS OF PAR VALUE.

the company can't expect you to give them your money for the hell of it. so to get you to invest they give out DIVIDENDS. that means a share of the NET INCOME of the company goes to the stock owners. this dividend is either cash, more stock, or other method of payment. a company is not required to give out a dividend, the "board members" or the "suits" decide how much dividend, if any will be given out. Generally speaking, companies that do good, give out more dividends, which makes their stock value go up.

as a stock owner you have a right to help decide where the company is headed. you do this by VOTING for a board of trustees, which will manage the corporation.

stock is divided into two classes: PREFERRED and COMMON

PREFERRED STOCK: get a share of the spoils should the company liquidate (they get their par-value back first), they also have first right to dividends.

Common Stock: has voting power, gets dividends after preferred stock, get their share of the spoils only if there is enough cash at liquidation to cover the par-value of the preferred stock.

Par-value is a value assigned to the stock by the company. Normally 1 dollar or so, sometimes stock has zero-par value.

For example:

Case A)
A company declares a dividend of 100,000 dollars. This company differs unpaid dividends due to preferred stockholders.

The bylaws state that preferred stockholders are guaranteed a dividend of $50,000 each time a dividend is declared, the rest going to the common stockowners.

In this case the preferred stock owners get 50,000. The common stock owners get the other 50,000.

Case B)
The same company declares a 30,000 dollar dividend.

In this case the preferred stock holders get 30,000 dollars, the common stock holders get nothing. The preferred stock holders also get the difference "differed".

6 months later the Company declares a 100,000 dividend. The preferred stock holders get the 20,000 dollars they were owed from the previous dividend declaration (50,000-30,000), plus 50,000 they are guaranteed. With the remainder (100,000-[50,000+20,000) = 30,000) going to common stock holders.


get it now???

if not, i don't know how to better explain it.. that's almost exactly copy/pasted from my BASIC ACCOUNTING BOOK, second chapter....
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
what didn't you understand??

you buy stocks, you buy ownership interest in a company.

company sells stock to raise money. they raise money by offering stock at zero value, when it's traded at 9 bux or 20 bux or whatever, that additional money goes to the company, as PAID IN CAPITAL IN EXCESS OF PAR VALUE.

the company can't expect you to give them your money for the hell of it. so to get you to invest they give out DIVIDENDS. that means a share of the NET INCOME of the company goes to the stock owners. this dividend is either cash, more stock, or other method of payment. a company is not required to give out a dividend, the "board members" or the "suits" decide how much dividend, if any will be given out. Generally speaking, companies that do good, give out more dividends, which makes their stock value go up.

as a stock owner you have a right to help decide where the company is headed. you do this by VOTING for a board of trustees, which will manage the corporation.

stock is divided into two classes: PREFERRED and COMMON

PREFERRED STOCK: get a share of the spoils should the company liquidate (they get their par-value back first), they also have first right to dividends.

For example:

Case A)
A company declares a dividend of 100,000 dollars. This company differs unpaid dividends due to preferred stockholders.

The bylaws state that preferred stockholders are guaranteed a dividend of $50,000 each time a dividend is declared, the rest going to the common stockowners.

In this case the preferred stock owners get 50,000. The common stock owners get the other 50,000.

Case B)
The same company declares a 30,000 dollar dividend.

In this case the preferred stock holders get 30,000 dollars, the common stock holders get nothing. The preferred stock holders also get the difference "differed".

6 months later the Company declares a 100,000 dividend. The preferred stock holders get the 20,000 dollars they were owed from the previous dividend declaration (50,000-30,000), plus 50,000 they are guaranteed. With the remainder (100,000-[50,000+20,000) = 30,000) going to common stock holders.


get it now???


cracker, explain it to all of them, who don't know how it works....
the value, or price you are willing to pay for the stock, is based on the perceived monetary return, through dividends (a share of NET INCOME), that the company will give it's investors.

i want to note that there is a difference in time from when dividends are DECLARED and when dividends are PAID. Companies declare dividends to keep the investors interested, and may choose to pay them off as they wish. Just because a company declares a 3million dollar dividend, that 3 million dollars doesn't get dispursed right away. Normally companies do not exceed more than 6 months from when a dividend is DECLARED to when it is PAID.

i think that's pretty clear....
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
if you're calling me OP, i'm 75% CPA, i know how the markets work, and now how the financials work too...

which is why i dont invest in the stock market. might as well throw my money away.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Heheheheh.... good one red.




Red said:
which is why i dont invest in the stock market. might as well throw my money away.


I think that says it all. Lawdy.
 

TheBlazehero

Active Member
he's asking how the stock market works though, i think? it's hard to tell what you really want to know. private companies offer partial ownership of their company in return for capital. a stock market is just a collection of these companies based on standards set by whatever body is hosting (couldn't find the word) the company. Dow Jones, NASDAQ and S&P all have different requirements for a company to be listed with them.

stock markets work just like any other market, price is the place where supply meets demand. the price of a company's stock is what the cumulative investor (the market) believes it to be now (current value) along with the expectations of what it should be in the future (future value). when a stock becomes overvalued (overbought) the price of the stock is pushed higher than what the value should be based on the best possible ROI compared to securities with similar risk levels and similar market conditions. please don't ask what risk is. the stock gets sold until the price comes back down to equilibrium. when a company's stock is undervalued buyers will recognize the deficiency and buy more shares, pushing the price back up to equilibrium. this is why it is helpful to break the stock market down into different industries, because for the most part, the securities in a given industry will follow a trend. well managed, profitable companies should outperform poorly managed, less profitable companies. this is where reading financial statements and comparing ratios may come in handy.

does the market actually work perfectly like this? no, but there are many reasons for that, the federal reserve probably being the biggest one.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
We could all yammer threads out all day long with charts and graphs, but once given the general sense (achieved), the best way to proceed is to build a foundational knowledge by reading the daily financial papers. Books are fine for overall, but only the daily variables in the financial papers can give you the overall picture as to what's going on, or what will happen in the future.

Once you understand the landscape and can read social events into profitable investments, it all gets very exciting and of course, very very profitable.

Sense where the herd is going and get there first. Always a winning strategy.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
Heheheheh.... good one red.




Red said:
which is why i dont invest in the stock market. might as well throw my money away.


I think that says it all. Lawdy.
have you seen the kind of bullshit that can be pulled off in accounting??

here's an example, since i'm a liberal, i'm gonna choose cheney's halliburton:

halliburton is a huge company, they have civilian and military contracts. government contracts are signed on a cost-plus-profit basis. so no matter how much it costs, you will be guaranteed a profit, usually around 30-40%... this company would allocate costs from it's civilian operations to it's military contracts, therefore inflating the costs, which results in higher profits in both operatinons. In it's civililan operation because costs are understated, therefore profit and ultimately net income OVER STATED, and in its military operation because its costs are overstated, which would make the 30% profit number be larger.

this company was caught, and fined heavily for it's actions, the company in charge with auditing them also suffered.

but this type of crap has happened before, and will happen again.

while the investors are poppin champagne because the company is supposedly doing SUPER AMAZINGLY WELL, the board officers are selling off their stocks, and issuing themselves ridiculous bonuses because of the imperative crash that approaches.

AIG, BofA, Citi, etc. are all prime examples...
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
What's that Jim Carey movie where he's thrown to the wolves as a PR rep while Globodyne tanks? Funny shit... Same deal.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
have you seen the kind of bullshit that can be pulled off in accounting??

here's an example, since i'm a liberal, i'm gonna choose cheney's halliburton:

halliburton is a huge company, they have civilian and military contracts. government contracts are signed on a cost-plus-profit basis. so no matter how much it costs, you will be guaranteed a profit, usually around 30-40%... this company would allocate costs from it's civilian operations to it's military contracts, therefore inflating the costs, which results in higher profits in both operatinons. In it's civililan operation because costs are understated, therefore profit and ultimately net income OVER STATED, and in its military operation because its costs are overstated, which would make the 30% profit number be larger.

this company was caught, and fined heavily for it's actions, the company in charge with auditing them also suffered.

but this type of crap has happened before, and will happen again.

while the investors are poppin champagne because the company is supposedly doing SUPER AMAZINGLY WELL, the board officers are selling off their stocks, and issuing themselves ridiculous bonuses because of the imperative crash that approaches.

AIG, BofA, Citi, etc. are all prime examples...
Ur a glass half empty sort of fellow, as I suspect most liberals are.

The vast, and I do mean vast in the fullest sense, companies are great investments and books are not a concern.

Halliburton has been a stock which has performed STRONGLY over the years, so what are you even saying?

The individual investor has a duty to watch his/her investments. At any time they think their portfolio is slipping (for ANY reason), they need only pick up the phone and sell. The Corp.'s know this of course and making mistakes hurts them. This is one way that private investment keeps corp's performing in the right direction.

If you are going to cherry pick problems and then make a generalized statement about the entire scope of stock market investments, the PROBLEM isn't with the stock market ot capitalism, the PROBLEM is with YOU.

Work on it. There are thousands of great performing stocks one can choose from quite safely. Worrying if all the Corp's are "cooking" the books is naive and negative thinking.

negative thinking won't get you very far in life, and if it does, you still won't be a happy person.

You need an attitude adjustment.

You need to have faith in ur fellow man. After reading hundreds of ur posts, that much is not in evidence. You have my sympathy.
 

TheBlazehero

Active Member
yeah, i agree that GAAP allows for too many measures that can either dilute earnings, push them higher or minimize losses or make them larger. Too many one time write offs and other 'creative' accounting to improve the bottom line. Not that I think that 'creative' accounting is anything new. Or that the profits shown on many balance sheets are actually worth as much because of all the money the Fed prints.

i wouldn't invest in Halliburton either, but only because I don't want ownership in a morally bankrupt company. I mean, if Dick Cheney is your CEO....How did those goons get elected twice? Anyway, when government is mixed with business I think it is fair to say that the common investor is not privy to complete information which does lead to market imperfections and mis-valuations. Anyway, what we operate in now is not really capitalism because we don't really have free markets...which is why many of us are on this website!
 

CrackerJax

New Member
If you pick ur investments on moral principles, you are going to end up in the poor house.

Don't get emotional about money. You put it where it is relatively safe and where it will grow. I'm all over the Chinese markets right now. That government, for all of its failings, which are many, is doing everything it can to PROMOTE business and wealth.
The US Govt. is doing the exact opposite. One could easily argue that morally, 99% of US stocks are better than the Chinese stocks. If you wish to tie ur economics to that mast....prepare for a lashing.
Me? I'd rather put my money into favorable markets and direct my personal morals with the incoming profits. Moral investors in the end, just have their words.
I'd rather have both.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
actually, halliburton is a company that has cooked it's books so much it's not even funny.

it's easy to run a company that performs well when the government offers you contracts with 45% return on investment. halliburton operates on government contracts alone, some civilian, some military. so basically, every single business transaction they enter to, they will cut a profit. interestingly enough, they still cook their books, because military contracts pay more. looks like cheney wasn't happy just invading and murdering people, he wants the american tax-payer to pay for his gulfstream too(we do).

i don't believe all companies cook their books, but they sure as shit do if the company's not performing well. i don't think this, i know this. i've been asked to do consulting work at Delloitte and yeah, it doesn't all get published in the news, but accounting fraud is RAMPANT. the thing is that confidentiality agreements can be a bitch.....

and don't talk to me like you know who I am, you don't. and don't pretend like you're wiser than me, you're not.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Ur all doom and gloom, hence the half full comment. First you post about the stockmarket and then say you'd never invest because you don't know if the corp's are cooking the books.

That's a defeatist attitude.

Why play sports? Ur opponent "might" be cheating.

Why go to school? Ur teacher may not be telling you the truth.

That's no way to go through life son.
 
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