My Current set up: journal?

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Are you saying 26.5 lb's isn't possible under 2 flashlights?
He is being sarcastic as all hell, but in good taste. At the time we had several newbies that were going to tear the world a new ass. He wanted to show them how extreme you could get, at least that was how I interpreted it. Sometimes you just gotta be there when it happens in order to get it. And now you knowm. VV
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Yes skunk I saw the thread and read parts of it. It's just beyond the scope of my current knowledge base. I have only been growing for about 1 1/2 years with a very limited budget, at least what I call limited. I'm sure if I were to gather all the receipts for everything I have done its probably $5000. or maybe a little more. But that does include the necessary adjustments in the electric service and other constrution. Those are Capitol in nature and will stay with the house, so they aren't really a part of the 'costs of growing'. I had done these kinds of things before, operating with small budgets and trying to stay in business sucks, this is the first time I have done it for 'myself'. To me that includes my family, for they are certainly a part of 'myself' although not by blood.
I do have a fair understanding of the physical plant, I haven't had to 'hire' anyone, I was able to do it all myself.
My goal was to produce the income necessary for me to do nothing but this consistantly. I have been fortunate this year, my wife has won a few fair amounts of money. This allowed me to make the investment necessary without producing the income while I was learning. Now I know where I am at, I know I can produce enough with what I have in place. The next area I have to improve in is knowledge of the plants. I want to know why SeeMoreBuds Roots look better then mine, so I know if it matters, maybe its just my hydro compared with his soil. This picture is of two plants, grown for the same amount of time under the exact same conditions. I want to be able to identify the one on the right and get rid of the smaller ones before they get to this point. Learning these types of things is what it is about now.
And doesn't that bud grown under the floros look ok. That is the first crop to be under 1/2 red, 1/2 blue. They already look like they have as much bud on them as the ones I am harvesting and they have four weks to go. I expect the next harvest to be bigger and better than this one. I want to constantly improve. Happiness is a Journey not a destination. VV
 

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VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Soo.... spent Saturday and part of Sunday harvesting the first plants that were under the t-5's for eight weeks. That is before I checked farther and started mixing 1/2 red, 1/2 blue. 15 plants and it looks like I am short of my goal again. I may meet one goal, 1 0z/Plant. If i did this correctly, here is how it lays out. 1335 wet grams/4 (you will normally lose 75% of weight during the drying and curing process) leaves 444 grams. dry weight. That is just short of a pound from fifteen plants grown with rh in the 70's and temps low 80's for almost two weeks. Its real close to an oz / plant. If you count the oz as 28.8grams and thats what it really is, its just short. I weigh mine out at 28.4. If any one needs close ups to check my trim please just ask. It did overfill my bud dryer just a little. Guess if I improve I'll have to make a bigger one, oh pity me? VV:hump:
 

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skunkman98536

Well-Known Member
thanks for the info victor! ill just go to lowes and make a lil room i have a huge spair bedroom i use for my guitar playing and ganja growing haha thanks bro!
 

REAPER

Active Member
nah you wanna usa both t5'd and a mh WEEDISCOOL because they each put out different light spectrums! just got my computer working again so ill be getting my pics up soon. for now im using my nintendo wii!
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
nah you wanna usa both t5'd and a mh WEEDISCOOL because they each put out different light spectrums! just got my computer working again so ill be getting my pics up soon. for now im using my nintendo wii!
I disagree. You want a mh and a hps...:mrgreen:
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
nah you wanna usa both t5'd and a mh WEEDISCOOL because they each put out different light spectrums!
You have simple missed one of the key features of the T-5 lights. I USE RED SPECTRUM AND BLUE SPECTRUM IN THE SAME FIXTURE. NO SEPARATE LIGHT IS REQUIRED.:blsmoke:
just got my computer working again so ill be getting my pics up soon. for now im using my nintendo wii!
Sounds good. Put them in a journal. I'll come look at them.

The T-5 can put out both light spectrums. The MH only does one and the HPS only does one. I do know you can get switchable Ballast and combinations. If 1355 'wet' grams doesn't establish the credability of the T-5's nothing I can say will either.
Think about this for just a minute. Lets pretend you are a new grower. You can buy a mh light and all the stuff you need with it and then within four weeks do it again with another light fixture and all the stuff that goes with it OR you can buy a T-5, MIX THE BULBS, and have all the best.
To start with you can turn on just 1/2 the fixture so you would have 220 watts of power being used instead of 400 watts. 20,000 lumens right on top of the plants spread out evenly OR 43,000 lumens two feet away from the plants with a separate ballast. Just the logistics makes it the right thing to do.
I haven't heard anyone say the T-5's aren't at least good for vegging so your risk is zero. If you are not happy with the results by all means buy the 400 watt hps furnace for flowering instead of another T-5. All the benefits will be apparent to you IF you have ever used the 400watt hps lights. I HAVE. That cola is a picture I posted here. It should have as much to say as my 1000 word answers do. Here is what it looks like with vegging plants. VV
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
That is the reason to get the T-5, you want a mh and an hps, this is how you get it and now you knowm. Thanx Skunk. VV:hump:
I've been thinking for a while about adding some blue to the flowering area... i used to rotate the bulbs on other grows as my fixtures can take both. i could do it now too, only I have to climb and crawl around in a tiny loft area to work with my plants in flower... good job I'm flexible... so it's easier to do it automatically. But, some side lighting maybe, would be a good idea. I'll be saying the same thing next week.:mrgreen::peace:
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Its amazing. All the reasons the T-5's are better for new growers are the drawbacks from the hid lights. Look, I have 10' high ceilings in my flowering area, I can put a ladder between the tables and change light bulbs. Why would I want to. In his excellent book, "Integral Hydroponics" Edition 2, G. Low makes a statement I try to remember. The paragraph has its own sub-title one we all recognize: KISS-KEEP IT SIMPLE.
He lists the seven things all plants need to have, the FACT that they MUST BE IN BALANCE. The last sentence in the second paragraph says, "Get all of them right and you are 99.9% on the way to being a very successful indoor gardener. "
I figured that meant the light wouldn't matter much if I couldn't control temperature and humidity. So I bought what I thought, and still do was the most light I could afford to buy three of, and concentrated on trying to get the other things done right. I figured if I could use 3-400 watt hps lights, with out having to cool them separate from the rest of the air handling system, when I could afford the 600watts with air cooling I would be fine. I could have bought two 600watthps that operate off 1 ballast, flanges attached ready to air cool for $650.00. When we discussed it further I chose the T-5's. Same results, less hassle, better light. I figured when the owners son was willing to stake his reputation on them, I would be willing to try them. I am not sorry that I did. The results, from a new grower, speak for themselves and the pictures shout it out. VV
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
I'm not sure VV... I'd have to grow more plants to get a similar yield. The T5 fixtures would cover my loft area... they need to be kept too close to the plants... there's a few things I don't like about them.
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure VV... I'd have to grow more plants to get a similar yield.
NOt sure what you mean. If you would have to grow more plants to get a similar yeild then the ballgame should be over. If you mean you would have to grow more plants that get a similar yeild in order to be satisfied that they work, stick around
The T5 fixtures would cover my loft area... they need to be kept too close to the plants... there's a few things I don't like about them.
This is just plain wrong skunk, They don't have to be kept too close to the plants, they can be kept closer to the plants. That is the reason 3-600 watt hid's is better than 2-1000watt lights. Because they can be kept closer to the plants they give more lumens to the plants because of the inverse square rule. I loaned out My Marijuana Growers Bible or I'd qoute Jorge on it.
The 400watt hid's put out 3000 more lumens than the t-5's. Since they have to be further away from the plants they don't get as much usable light, particularly the ones that are farthest from the light which causes that canopy effect.
Even if you were to raise the t-5 to the same height as you have to keep the 400 watt, they would still perform better. Both Spectrums of light spread over all the plants with less heat issues.
Look, my grow area doesn't have the problems a closet grow does. I have a fair size room for a one person grow op, over 100 plants in there, and I still have room for a fireplace,chair and computer. I don't have to air cool the 400 watt light, I have the space. It came with the house I didn't build it.
Folks growing in closets will have to air cool the light. From 250watthid's up, they will need at least a 4" duct, fan, inlet and outlet, there goes the stealth. It will give them one advantage. They will learn how to be contortionist trying to move around in there to make adjustment, maybe you can show them how.

And then we come to the issue of height. How can anyone wanting to get any kind of yeild give up two feet of plant height ?? Why make it necessary for a new grower to learn LST, FIM or topping, super croppin or lollipopping, no wonder they don't have time to find out about SOG AND SCROG.

I went through it first, I didn't start with the T-5's, I should have. And any new grower should? Yes, if they have the room for one they should. If they don't they will be using 'compact florescent lights'. Not a thing wrong with that, I have a book that shows how the author grew 8oz of dry bud with 8-42 watt cfl's and three plants. CFL's work. And his total investment was less than $100.

Remember I am not an experienced grower. My clones are not ready to go in flowering 2 weeks after I cut them, I only know about the physical plant. You have to have space for the physical plant. Why take it up with a light you need to air cool?? Because it sounds cool and thats what everyone uses?? Why create a problem when you could get more usable light for less?

I remember when I planned my air handling system. I spent a couple hundred on it, figuring by going to the 8", I would be able to just hook the lights to it when I could afford the 600watt lights. Wrong! I would have to install another 8" line for those lights separate from the exhaust and intake. Since I have the room to do this its not a big problem. Spending the extra $200.00 for a $150.00 inline fan and some ducting doesn't appeal to me now. I could use that money to get a dehumidifier or air conditioner. Either one would have given me more yeild on this crop. 10% improvment would have put me above goal, 1 oz per plant SOG grow. That is a twelve week flowering cycle not 8 so its not great, it ain't bad either.:hump:

Then there is the issue of the separate ballast, I know I have mentioned it, lets talk about that. What does that require? Well, it is heavy, and loud and hot. Most of them provide you with a cord that is too short, either from the plug to the ballast or from the ballast to the light. The cords won't be in the way if you just run them over to the wall and up the wall and across the ceiling and down to the light. But that ballast has to go somewhere doesn't it. Of course it is a part of the t-5 fixture, and the fifteen foot cord plugs in to the closest duplex, done. Figure out where to put the ballast? Don't let it get wet, and don't let a drop of water hit the bulb. Oh thats right we have a shield on it so we can air cool it. Maybe if we put it on something it will deaden the sound, no that would just make it viberate through the house.
Well, we can think about that one while we whack a hole in the ceiling and floor so we can cool this goddam 600watt furnace.

And none of that adresses the Stealth issue. Now get this, I live about 35' from the road. There is a window in my grow room that can be seen from the road. I have it covered with a mini blind. The t-5 light comes on in that area at 5:00 am and goes out at 11:00 pm. NO worry's. It looks like I have a Flourescent light on in my garage. Try that, or opening the closet door while some one else is in the house, with an hid.

There is one thing I don't like about the T-5 Light fixture. Because its as long as my table, I often bumb my head on the damn thing when I bend over to look at a plant. Sometimes you have get hit in the head so you'll pay attention next time I suppose. But, I haven't burned my hand, I'd rather not get burned. VV:blsmoke:
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
Well I have built in ballasts in my HID lamps... makes the light heavier, but it's tucked away nicely... and I have 800w of HPS (2x400) in the flowering area, and it doesn't get that hot. I can get my plants to around 8" below the bulbs... and after this experiment is over I will go into SOG growing.

The light from a HPS merely diminishes by half 2ft down... so from a 400w, 2ft below will register like a 200w. What stops light from reaching down there is bushiness, which is why we trim all dead leaves. The real reason we don't get much bud that low down is because the buds branches are shaded by branches above. regular trimming can help ensure better light access to branches lower down the plant. If that's what you want. Trimming the lower branches merely puts growth into the upper branches.

I know you've done both VV, but did you really give HPS a chance?

For me it has nothing to do with cool. If you're confident that you can achieve the same results with fluoro's as you can a HID, then I hope you succeed... but I will need more convincing.

Babygro used to say much the same as you... then he disappeared before he could back up his claims with evidence. I'd love for you to be right though, just need more convincing.

How long do you veg' your clones for? So, you're getting a dry oz per plant in soil, from seed? After 4 weeks veg'?
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
know the feeling buddy... 6,000 words gone just like that. Makes me feel like bursting into tears sometimes... can't bear to look at the thing for a while.

Which allows me time to add something else that i thought of.

Fluoro's may have the right spectrum, but do they have the right INTENSITY that makes potent trichomes?

Trichomes, particularly potent ones, are a plants defence mechanism against light intensity... fluoro's do not offer any real intensity. If they did, they would be hotter. Just a thought. maybe enough to kick start you into rewriting that reply.:mrgreen:
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Well I have built in ballasts in my HID lamps... makes the light heavier, but it's tucked away nicely... and I have 800w of HPS (2x400) in the flowering area, and it doesn't get that hot. I can get my plants to around 8" below the bulbs... and after this experiment is over I will go into SOG growing.
I hung mine from the ceiling, thats where I had the space and heat rises. I have 1320. I can get mine within 2" without burning them. And the SOG grow just means your plants are about the same height and you trim the bottom. That is what this one was.


The light from a HPS merely diminishes by half 2ft down... so from a 400w, 2ft below will register like a 200w. What stops light from reaching down there is bushiness, which is why we trim all dead leaves. The real reason we don't get much bud that low down is because the buds branches are shaded by branches above. regular trimming can help ensure better light access to branches lower down the plant. If that's what you want. Trimming the lower branches merely puts growth into the upper branches.

I know you've done both VV, but did you really give HPS a chance?
No I did not really give the hps lights a chance. I never got to the point were I could put 2 week old clones under those light and flower the plants for just 8 weeks. I only used them for a year before buying the first t-5. I am not obligated to 'give them a chance'. They have served my purpose. I bought them becasue they were cheap, I felt like I could learn what I was doing, grow some plants and start to get an enviroment that I can keep in balance. The product from those hid's payed for the t-5 lights. I sold two of them to other people for 1/2 of what they cost me and the bulbs were a year old. Both of them knew that when the bought them. I never said they are crappy and you can't use them. I said if you can the best investment is the t-5's.

For me it has nothing to do with cool. If you're confident that you can achieve the same results with fluoro's as you can a HID, then I hope you succeed... but I will need more convincing.
I believe all of that.:blsmoke:


Babygro used to say much the same as you... then he disappeared before he could back up his claims with evidence. I'd love for you to be right though, just need more convincing.
I know he did, didn't follow his threads much, not my style. I'm more like a crescent roll. And I debated for three years in high school. Even though that was over fourty years ago, its kinda like makin luv, once you learn it, you never forget it. I won't defend a position unless I know that I know.

How long do you veg' your clones for?
I veg them until I have room to move them into flowering. When I harvest I move the 20 healthiest looking clones into flowering. Didn't care how long, why rush them? Remember I started planning based on four tables in flowering 8 weeks and done harvest every two weeks. The widow won't fit that cycle, it takes 12 weeks to flower, so I have had enough clones.

So, you're getting a dry oz per plant in soil, from seed? After 4 weeks veg'?
Not quite. Depending on how it dries. I'm not using soil, I have some in rockwool some in coco, and five flood and drain tables including the mother and clone table. For the ones that are going to be in the next harvest that is correct. For the next ones to go in flowering it will be longer than that. Keep in mind until two weeks ago my clones were under t-12 floro's. Now they will spend at least the first two weeks in the clone stand under t-8's for now.
Since I could put 60 clones in it at any given time I don't care how long they veg, I just want the healthiest ones. You can just maintain plants you don't have to rush grow them. Outdoors they may veg for a few months??

None of what I do matters, except the physical plant. I don't have the knowledge of the plants that others have. I know that doing what I'm doing with what I'm using will allow me to grow a pound of premium every month. Any improvements I make in learning and caring for the plants will just make the yeild higher
That last harvest I had five plants that had yeild under 100 grams wet with a low of 46 grams, hardly worth it. THe highest was 180 grams. Plenty of room for improvment. Imagine if the 180 was an average. Not too shabby. VV
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
You would have to judge the product for your self. Stop by any time you are in the neighborhood. I will be in Florida the first week of January, and then Jamaca for a day or so before flying back so skip that time frame. LOL VV
 
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