Would You Be An Insurgent?

[PadawanBater]

Still none of those who think we should pull out have explained what would then happen to Afghanistan and why that would be a good thing for anyone.

It's not really our business to say what is good or bad for Afghanistan. That's the point.

If that was your policy, why don't you care about Sudan, Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam... I could sit here and list dozens of different countries where the people there are either just as well off as the people of Afghanistan or worse. Why don't we have troops on the ground doing the same jobs in all those countries? What makes Afghanistan so special?

 

[Mindmelted]

most countries don't want our money. our money is like the mob, you take it and you owe us one. not to mention, you say no and watch your back. some places state one million dead iraqis and afghans since 2001. not many here care! blood is on our hands, murder by silence.

You are full of shit.
Most countries take are money as fast as it is handed to them.

 

[ruderalis88]

couple of questions, theyre not loaded with opinion theyre just straight questions so please treat them as such:

1 - who would refer to the patriots of America who fought off the English (who'd been there for a long time) during the war of independence as insurgents or terrorists?

2 - what is being reported about all these military expeditions from the west is biased, and propaganda and spin (that is what is being reported by like 98% of the media in the USA and the UK, indisputably) who thinks that if they were getting the honest straight facts about all areas of this stuff they would have a different opinion?

i'm just curious.

 

[TheBlazehero]

You are full of shit.
Most countries take are money as fast as it is handed to them.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/190375
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html
http://www.nrc.nl/international/Features/article2172883.ece/Stop_giving_aid_to_Africa._Its_just_not_working

 

[CrackerJax]

Afghanistan is where Al Queda and the Taliban are.

There is a most naive concept that seems to be percolating here.

We retract and they calm down.

That my friends is NAIVE thinking.

 

[Spoc]

Yes I would be an "Insurgent" if the US was occupied by the Iraq or Afganastan military..If they had one. Were fighting religious zealots from stone throwing countries all over the globe. These countries can not be salvaged by the American way. The Russians lost a stalemate war with Afganastan that spanned a century. I agree with the previous post that were fighting these wars for our own interests....lets be honest.

It's a simple concept...If you come into my home...and occupy it. I'm gonna come at you with a full personal arsenal.

 

[Rob Roy]

The Taliban "insurgency" is about a lot more than western troops being there. it is about overthrowing the government and taking over the country again which they would quickly do. Anyone in favor of our withdrawal is pro-Taliban because they want the same things the Taliban wants.

If not, then please explain to us what future situation you do advocate in Afghanistan and how it should be achieved.

"Anyone in favor of our withdrawal is pro-Taliban because they want the same things the Taliban wants. " Nope. I don't want the same things the Taliban want. They are Muslim extremists. I could give a flying fuck about Islam, or using religion to control others. I want to leave others alone.

The Taliban and The USA's foreign policy might want the same things though...both seem intent on controlling others through force.

I'll agree the Taliban aren't very nice, neither was Sadaam. They like to run other people's lives. Is it our job to be the world police and "nation builders"? Can you show me where this is allowed in the Constitution?

The "situation" in Afghanistan is simple, the USA has occupied yet another country and another Viet Nam has been created. Innocent people will be killed, Politicans will lie, people will profit from the war, fools will think they are protecting our freedom by going to some shitty backwater country and killing others.

I advocate bringing everybody home. I advocate if there is solid evidence Bin Laden's a bad guy, get him, waste him and move on. Occupying other countries is a bad idea, it is costly and will have unintended consequences. How many 9/11 bad guys were Afghani again? None?

 

[Big P]

if you want to be honest with your poll it should be asked acuratly like this



if George w bush, proclaimed himself dictater of the USA and began rounding up any high ranking opposition and putting them to death and he oppressed the american people

and china (which for this purpose is a flourishing democrcy who has freed nations before)

becomes convinced to come and kill bush and his regiem and reinstall democracy to our land through military force


would you be an insurgent against the chinese people trying to free and you and instead fight on the side of bush and his totalitarian regiem??

EXACTLY, you would never fight for a country that doesnt fight for you


this is how and the only way how you can take over a huge country like that within 3 weeks. its because thier government was thier enemy

and the only thing keeping them in line is the sword at thier neck from thier government abusers



we did a great thing in iraq, and now they have a bright future instead of a bleak and violent existance


if we had done this 10 years earlier we would have saved about 1 million iraqi lives


we saved more lives with war than without.

 

[CrackerJax]

This thread shows the blinders well.

The general population of Afghanistan is being held hostage by the Taliban and Al Queda.

What they want is to be sure of is that we won't just come in, stir things up and then leave them to be punished later. Terrorists don't have prisons....they don't take prisoners, except for hostage.

Setting up a EXIT TIME TABLE is the surest way to erode the native populations support.

 

[biggun]

Here's the deal most of the Insurgents are uneducated and brainwashed and see no other hope but to fight, die and go to the afterlife... EWhat a disappointment they are in for....

 

[Big P]

yea think about it we / all of us are ignorent here and there and we have infinate information at our fingertips from tv and internet

in my life i have thought stupid things,


they dont even have tv many of them, lucky if a radio, then lucky to get some battaries

im geussing they are going to have a lot of misinformed in thier population



just a guess based on our peoples ignorence regardless of the wealth of information we have

but jax you make are sad but good point, no one will want to help the guy that beats up the bully if he just said he had to leave at six to go eat dinner

and leaves you there with the bully who now has a bloody nose


i think obams base should not be so hard on him so he wont give liberals exit dates to appease them and hurt our mission in afghanistan

 

[CrackerJax]

His base has no clue about winning wars. They believe the world thinks like them

Uhhh .... WRONG.

But the world is MORE than willing to manipulate that attitude to their advantage.

 

[RickWhite]

Afghanistan is NOT an Arab Country. The Taliban do NOT represent the Afghan people. The Taliban are an occupying force in Afghanistan and they have never been welcome there.

The radicals in Iraq are not "insurgents." Insurgents are citizens fighting an occupying force. Most of the attacks in Iraq are coming from foreign radicals illegally crossing into Iraq from Iran with heavy Iranian weapons. The press calls them "insurgents" for lack of a better term. We should have responded to Iran's numerous acts of war long ago but all the pissing and moaning from Liberals here at home hamstrung our efforts costing many American lives. Well done guys.

I can see here that many of those posting in this thread have no idea what is really going on. They just think it is cool and makes them sound smart to be anti-US so they spew ignorant nonsense. Damn near everyone posting thinks we are at war with the Afghanistan and not the occupying Taliban. If you are that clueless about current events, don't discuss them.

Also, understand that freedom, by definition, can not be imposed on people. Most people in the Middle East have never known freedom save as an impossible pipe dream. It is understandable that they are less enthusiastic about it than we would like. But never the less, we have a monumental problem in the form of an up and coming threat from radical Islam. This ideology could potentially destroy not only our way of life but freedom everywhere. And we must also understand that free democracies seldom if ever go to war against each other. It is only when totalitarian Countries are involved that we see war. Every Muslim Country on Earth is currently at war with their neighbors - we can only expect them to grow stronger as time goes by and we can not expect them to stop for no reason. Radical Muslims will not stop until they establish a global Caliphate. There is estimated to be over 100 million of them world wide and they are prepared to fight for thousands of years if necessary. Doing nothing simply is not an option. Either we eliminate this threat now or we face a much larger one in the future.

Without question, radical Islam must be defeated soon, before nuclear weapons are acquired. The best plan we have at this time is to plant the seed of Democracy and hope that it will flourish and replace despair and war with prosperity and peace.

In the words of one Marine I was speaking with - "either we open their eyes or we close them."

 

[medicineman]

This thread shows the blinders well.

The general population of Afghanistan is being held hostage by the Taliban and Al Queda.

What they want is to be sure of is that we won't just come in, stir things up and then leave them to be punished later. Terrorists don't have prisons....they don't take prisoners, except for hostage.

Setting up a EXIT TIME TABLE is the surest way to erode the native populations support.

I'm sorry man but I'm afraid it is you that wears the blinders. We, the US government, is in Afghanistan, and Iraq for monetary reasons, not ideaology. These two wars have made many people rich as fuck, war contractors, weapons and munitions manufacturers, politicians that award contracts, etc. We have this giant propaganda machine pumping out terrorists this, terrorists that, when it was 19 Saudis that attacked us, or so they say. There are a lot of "what happened" unanswered with the whole terrorist bullshit theme. A few hundred al-queda, most that have been killed, is keeping hundreds of thousands of our soldiers (Military) and private fighting in these two countries while no-one is even investigating Saudi Arabia or the contacts there? I wonder why? could it be for monetary reasons? Well Yes it is. When will the American people wake the fuck up and finally realize that we are controlled by corporations. They call the shots. They say when and where we put troops and when and where we go to war. Wake up people, before it is too late and we are another Nazi-Germany type country. It is not that far off. BTW, it really doesn't matter what party is in power. Obama has made that clear when he allowed that prick lieberman to torpedo health care without nary a consequence. In a word, we are fucked.

 

[PadawanBater]

OK, you said that most of the attacks are coming from "foreign radicals illegally crossing into Iraq from Iran with heavy Iranian weapons." - first, I'd like you to provide a source for that statement, that weapons being used to attack American soldiers are Iranian made. I couldn't find much about where the weapons are coming from that are killing American soldiers. But what are you implying with that statement, that Iran is supplying the weapons these radicals are using to kill American soldiers? The Iranian government using some sort of proxy tactic, like we did with the Northern Alliance against the Soviets? Doesn't the "illegally" in your statement mean without Iranian permission?

"We should have responded to Iran's numerous acts of war long ago but all the pissing and moaning from Liberals here at home hamstrung our efforts costing many American lives. Well done guys." Sure, go waste another TRILLION dollars on a pointless war that makes rich people richer and kills the lowly surfs that don't matter... Violence is always the solution to the problem...

They are insurgents fighting for their freedom from occupation. Just like I would, just like you would (even though you won't admit it).

Oh man, it's so cool to fight against authority Rick! Holy cow! I feel like such a bad ass! lmfao..

Yeah, we're fighting a "war on terrorism", which cannot be won, no matter how much money or American lives you pump into the system. Terrorism will always exist, and you and the policies you support ensure that fact. Exactly how the "war on drugs" will never be won, no matter how many DEA agents exist or how much of our money they spend, drugs will always exist.

Also, understand that freedom, by definition, can not be imposed on people. Most people in the Middle East have never known freedom save as an impossible pipe dream. It is understandable that they are less enthusiastic about it than we would like. But never the less, we have a monumental problem in the form of an up and coming threat from radical Islam. This ideology could potentially destroy not only our way of life but freedom everywhere. And we must also understand that free democracies seldom if ever go to war against each other. It is only when totalitarian Countries are involved that we see war. Every Muslim Country on Earth is currently at war with their neighbors - we can only expect them to grow stronger as time goes by and we can not expect them to stop for no reason. Radical Muslims will not stop until they establish a global Caliphate. There is estimated to be over 100 million of them world wide and they are prepared to fight for thousands of years if necessary. Doing nothing simply is not an option. Either we eliminate this threat now or we face a much larger one in the future.

And I'm the bigot? Explain to me why it's totally OK for you to advocate "eliminating" radical Islam, but not OK for me to advocate "eliminating" fundamentalist Christianity (which I don't)? Oh oh, because you don't view it as a serious threat to the progression of humanity... I see...

"Every Muslim Country on Earth is currently at war with their neighbors" - Blatant lie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_nations

Without question, radical Islam must be defeated soon, before nuclear weapons are acquired. The best plan we have at this time is to plant the seed of Democracy and hope that it will flourish and replace despair and war with prosperity and peace.

I learned "you can't spread Democracy through the barrel of a gun" in GRADESCHOOL Rick. Not to mention all the other complicated issues involved with "planting the seed of Democracy"...

 

[RickWhite]

OK, you said that most of the attacks are coming from "foreign radicals illegally crossing into Iraq from Iran with heavy Iranian weapons." - first, I'd like you to provide a source for that statement, that weapons being used to attack American soldiers are Iranian made. I couldn't find much about where the weapons are coming from that are killing American soldiers. But what are you implying with that statement, that Iran is supplying the weapons these radicals are using to kill American soldiers? The Iranian government using some sort of proxy tactic, like we did with the Northern Alliance against the Soviets? Doesn't the "illegally" in your statement mean without Iranian permission?

"We should have responded to Iran's numerous acts of war long ago but all the pissing and moaning from Liberals here at home hamstrung our efforts costing many American lives. Well done guys." Sure, go waste another TRILLION dollars on a pointless war that makes rich people richer and kills the lowly surfs that don't matter... Violence is always the solution to the problem...

They are insurgents fighting for their freedom from occupation. Just like I would, just like you would (even though you won't admit it).

Oh man, it's so cool to fight against authority Rick! Holy cow! I feel like such a bad ass! lmfao..

Yeah, we're fighting a "war on terrorism", which cannot be won, no matter how much money or American lives you pump into the system. Terrorism will always exist, and you and the policies you support ensure that fact. Exactly how the "war on drugs" will never be won, no matter how many DEA agents exist or how much of our money they spend, drugs will always exist.

Also, understand that freedom, by definition, can not be imposed on people. Most people in the Middle East have never known freedom save as an impossible pipe dream. It is understandable that they are less enthusiastic about it than we would like. But never the less, we have a monumental problem in the form of an up and coming threat from radical Islam. This ideology could potentially destroy not only our way of life but freedom everywhere. And we must also understand that free democracies seldom if ever go to war against each other. It is only when totalitarian Countries are involved that we see war. Every Muslim Country on Earth is currently at war with their neighbors - we can only expect them to grow stronger as time goes by and we can not expect them to stop for no reason. Radical Muslims will not stop until they establish a global Caliphate. There is estimated to be over 100 million of them world wide and they are prepared to fight for thousands of years if necessary. Doing nothing simply is not an option. Either we eliminate this threat now or we face a much larger one in the future.

And I'm the bigot? Explain to me why it's totally OK for you to advocate "eliminating" radical Islam, but not OK for me to advocate "eliminating" fundamentalist Christianity (which I don't)? Oh oh, because you don't view it as a serious threat to the progression of humanity... I see...

"Every Muslim Country on Earth is currently at war with their neighbors" - Blatant lie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_nations

Without question, radical Islam must be defeated soon, before nuclear weapons are acquired. The best plan we have at this time is to plant the seed of Democracy and hope that it will flourish and replace despair and war with prosperity and peace.

I learned "you can't spread Democracy through the barrel of a gun" in GRADESCHOOL Rick. Not to mention all the other complicated issues involved with "planting the seed of Democracy"...

You know absolutely nothing about this subject. War brought Democracy to both Germany and Japan did it not? And how much better off are they now?

You don't know about the weapons and fighters flooding into Iraq from Iran. If you don't know the facts, why are you discussing this?

Your obsession with comparing radical Islam to Christianity is just plain asinine and only demonstrates that you are a sick little boy in need of counseling. Why don't you stop trolling on the internet and seek professional help.

You constantly argue about subjects of which you are woefully uninformed and you clearly harbor a disturbing level of hostility toward Christians. Perhaps you should consider converting to Islam, that is if you are not currently a Muslim, and flying to the middle east to help your brothers as a "freedom fighter."

While you are there, maybe you should tell them that if they stop fighting for a while our troops will leave. According to your brilliant theories they haven't figured this out because they are fighting to get their country back.

 

[PadawanBater]

You know absolutely nothing about this subject. War brought Democracy to both Germany and Japan did it not? And how much better off are they now?

You don't know about the weapons and fighters flooding into Iraq from Iran. If you don't know the facts, why are you discussing this?

Your obsession with comparing radical Islam to Christianity is just plain asinine and only demonstrates that you are a sick little boy in need of counseling. Why don't you stop trolling on the internet and seek professional help.

You constantly argue about subjects of which you are woefully uninformed and you clearly harbor a disturbing level of hostility toward Christians. Perhaps you should consider converting to Islam, that is if you are not currently a Muslim, and flying to the middle east to help your brothers as a "freedom fighter."

While you are there, maybe you should tell them that if they stop fighting for a while our troops will leave. According to your brilliant theories they haven't figured this out because they are fighting to get their country back.

No. Democracy was an inevitable consequence of both of those nations. Especially with American influence. With or without WW2, both Germany and Japan would have enacted Democracy, as all other western nations without the use of war have.

How much better off are they? Again, it depends on perspective. Who are you asking? The world doesn't revolve around America.

No, I do not know about your made up lies. It would be as simple as leaving a link to a place explaining it... but you never do. Why is that? Do you expect me to just take your word for it? (just like you do with the US gov.?)

Christianity brainwashes young children into believing if they don't accept some ancient zombie Jew as their one and only God, they deserve to burn in Hell for ETERNITY. You are an idiot if you don't think telling a young child some insane shit like that is dangerous. Furthermore, you're ignorant to the indirect after effects that ripple through society by brainwashing our youth. It's as clear as day for Islam, but you put the blinders on for Christianity. Whose the one in need of help?

I think I'll stick with logic and reason. They seem to be doing a great job so far. You don't have to believe in some form of BULLSHIT. It's all the same to me, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, all of them are equally as wrong, useless and detremental to the progression of humanity.

According to my poll, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about Rick. Take notice, maybe that'll teach ya something... (I won't hold my breath)

 

[CrackerJax]

Wrong Paddy, quite wrong.

Europe has no experience with democracies ... kind of why the founding fathers were the FIRST to do it.

Med man... ur insane.

 

[PadawanBater]

Wrong Paddy, quite wrong.

Europe has no experience with democracies ... kind of why the founding fathers were the FIRST to do it.

Med man... ur insane.

Are you serious?

Do you think America was the first Democracy?

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes I do. First true democracy founded by the people. I can swing partially with ancient Greece, but only partially.

You post that democracies in Germany and Japan was inevitable ... that's incorrect.

Certainly Japan was never remotely experimenting with Democracy. Democracies tend NOT to have emperors.... that's a tip off.

Germany was coming off of a Monarch history and veered straight into Nazism, thanks to WWI. Hardly a democracy. Hardly a path to Democracy.

We did nation build both of them. We did a great job of it too.