Thrips, Mites, or Both. +rep for help

[DannyGreenEyes]

I just got rid of thrips a couple of weeks ago and haven't seen any signs of them since.

I've been seeing some leaf damage that I thought was from a UVB burn. The leaves are also dry. While doing research I read for the first time that mites can cause deformations which got me a little concerned. (twisty leaves)

Today when I was taking clones I noticed some of the lower leaves with white dots. When I looked I saw some white-ish bugs/dots. So I'm pretty sure the Thrips either returned or I got them again (still haven't put the right filter in my intake).

I also noticed that dirt and stuff on some of the leaves was kind of sticking like maybe on a tiny web that I couldn't see or something.

I also got 2 small bites on my arm, not sure what that's all about.

I don't see any red rings, and I haven't seen any black dots moving.

I'm about to water & spray, and tommorow I hope to put the lady bugs in there. This should take care of the Thrips.

I'm concerned that I might also have a mite infestation starting because if they nest before the lady bugs are put into play they wont abandon the nest. I think the infestation is small enough for them to handle, but I might have to take further action.

I also haven't seen any mite eggs.

Can anyone tell me what the odds are that I have some mites in there?

Pics are of the recent plant damage. The twisty leaves aren't twisting really, they're just deformed. They're flat beleive it or not.

 

[beardo]

it is hard for me to tell whats going on because you say you had thrips so it could be from that or that and mites im wondering if the leaf curl could be ph? is new growth deformed to? my leaves curled and deformed when i changed ph to fast

 

[DannyGreenEyes]

New growth is coming in normal, they get dry as they get older, real dry but green.

About 3 or 4 weeks ago I change the pH (when I realized that the pH probe don't work in water well). It was about 5.8 or 6.0, and it's now 6.3 to 6.5.

Also when I added nutes for the first time the directions said to pH first, then add nutes and don't pH again. I pH'd before, added 1/3 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom to each gallon, then pH'd again. The nutes had dropped it below 6.0 and I raised it back up to 6.3 - 6.5.

First question, could a small chang in pH cause this? Second, were those directions right, did I mess up by pHing again?

Thanks for the help +rep

 

[beardo]

yeah a jump 5.8 to 6.5 might curl them. allways add nutes stir then ph. your leaves being thin dry might be a nute defincey but probably damage from mites.

 

[doogleef]

I do see some thrip damage but its difficult to tell if its new or old. Some of the leaves are necrotic and that is not from bugs. You mentioned that you fed tiger bloom, is that all? What is the NPK and dosage of all your current nutes?

Always PH adjust after adding nutes not b4. PH swings are blamed for a lot of things but marijuana is generally pretty tolerant of PH unless it is out of whack for a long time.

 

[DannyGreenEyes]

yeah a jump 5.8 to 6.5 might curl them. allways add nutes stir then ph. your leaves being thin dry might be a nute defincey but probably damage from mites.

If those are the only 2 choices then it's gotta be mites. Using FFOF and on a bad piece of advice I added bone & blood meal. The nute minor nute burns just stopped about 2 weeks ago. Added a little more nutes last week.

Do spider mites make small webs under the leaves before flower? And I don't understand why the infestation isn't worse. Could they be something other than spider mites? (some other type of mite)

 

[DannyGreenEyes]

Anyone know if there's a type of mite that makes small webs or cacoons that can't be seen by the human eye that like to bite people as much as plants?

And the white bugs I saw were tiny dots. They could be Thrip young, but does anyone know of a mite that is white?

 

[bobman]

white flies. never had thrips but i have had spider mites. i would rather have mites. white flies r a bitch. if it looks like small white disks on the leafs its white flies. from my experience they r tame until the last few weeks of flower. I HATE THOSE FUCKERS!!!!!!. hard to kill completely. they really become evident those last few weeks. they suck the juice out of the plant then shit all over it. in late bloom the leaves get real sticky. in my experience they do not get out of control until late flower but by then its to late. not sure how much they affect the plant over all. i am pretty drunk but if u r looking for leaf problems look towards the top of the plant. the leafs i see look light bleached.

 

[bobman]

from the picture looks like light bleaching. put up a picture of the plant as a whole. bottom leafs do all kind of weird things.

 

[DannyGreenEyes]

white flies. never had thrips but i have had spider mites. i would rather have mites. white flies r a bitch. if it looks like small white disks on the leafs its white flies. from my experience they r tame until the last few weeks of flower. I HATE THOSE FUCKERS!!!!!!. hard to kill completely. they really become evident those last few weeks. they suck the juice out of the plant then shit all over it. in late bloom the leaves get real sticky. in my experience they do not get out of control until late flower but by then its to late. not sure how much they affect the plant over all. i am pretty drunk but if u r looking for leaf problems look towards the top of the plant. the leafs i see look light bleached.

Thanks for your help. +rep

They look like white dots, and they seem to move faster than the thrips I've run across. And they bite, I got two bites watering & spraying. Do white flies bite?

The leaves with white dots from damage are at the bottom of the plant though, right where you'd expect them if they were mites or thrips.

Taking shits on the leaves does sound right though. I've been seeing white specs that come off when I go to inspect. Kind of like small flecs of ash. I've been wondering about that.

I guess I could have thrips and white flies which isn't a bad deal. I'm sure my lady bugs will take care of both.

But that doesn't explain what seem to be tiny webs under the leaves that can't be seen by the human eye. It might be something else there, but some of the junk under the lower leaves (from the dirt) kind of get stuck like their in a web. On one of the leaves I cut I held it up and I actually saw a pice of perlite that seemed to be floating under the leaf. If that's not a web, I don't know what it is.

 

[DannyGreenEyes]

from the picture looks like light bleaching. put up a picture of the plant as a whole. bottom leafs do all kind of weird things.

Thanks for the help. +rep

The three pics of leaves that are cut almost all the way through are from the top of the plant. I really don't notice any color difference

Some of the leaves are kinda shiny, like they have a coat of wax over them or something. That's probably what you see in the pic that looks like it might be bleached.

I really don't want to pull them out to take a pic though. Not that I'm lazy, it's just the only place I can take a pic is right next to rooting station that has some new plants vegging. They're clean of bugs and I don't want to infest them.

Also, I just sprayed them so the leaves are bound to look darker right now

 

[bobman]

i understand. if u think u have a real problem it will manifest. people r always concerned over every little speck. plants r easy after they get bigger. just getting them there can be a journey. u can not be concerned over everything. i do not know ur experience but after a while u will be able to tell the difference between a real problem and just a little leaf spot. i can tell u i hate white flies more than anything.

 

[bobman]

u will be able to become very in tune with ur plant very quickly.

 

[DannyGreenEyes]

i understand. if u think u have a real problem it will manifest. people r always concerned over every little speck. plants r easy after they get bigger. just getting them there can be a journey. u can not be concerned over everything. i do not know ur experience but after a while u will be able to tell the difference between a real problem and just a little leaf spot. i can tell u i hate white flies more than anything.

Dude, there are white dots on some of the lower leaves that don't rub off that look exactly like the ones that the thrips made before I killed them 7 or 9 days ago.

Today when I was looking I saw more young thrips. I also saw 2 white dots on 2 leaves that I assumed were thrips at first, but they moved to fast at their size to be thrips. Thinking back, they definately weren't thrips.

I've only seen 1 adult thrip right before I killed them last week. He moved about as fast as these white dots do.

I have seen some small ash looking stuff on the leaves that appear to be dots at first, but they rub off. I didn't really worry about it till you said something about white flies taking dumps on the leaves. Until then I assumed they were dead thrips or something.

The leaves are very dry and very rough, like fine sand paper. Some of them look waxy as they become bigger & older.

Some of them are also damaged, and I've done a lot of research on plant damage but never seen anything like this. The edges look like they've been chewed on by a catepillar or something. They also form gray spots that grow and become small holes. At first I thought it might be nute burns or a pH fluctuation, but after seeing those white dots I'm starting to think that at least part of it is caused by these little white fuckers. And today I noticed another leaf that was almost split in half being held together by that middle vein, like the 2 in the pics. The difference with this one is the "crack" is wider. There's a whole piece of leaf missing if you can picture what I mean.

When I sprayed I was bitten twice on the right arm by something that I didn't see or notice when it bit me. I found the bites after.

I know I have thrips, they're no sweat. If the spray didn't kill them the lady bugs will finish the job once I set them free in there.

Those two white dots that moved quickly is a concern. I'm sure they're a parasite of some kind, just don't know what. And it would be a lot easier to fight it if I knew what it was.

The lady bugs might kill them if I'm lucky, but I'm not usually that lucky. If they're some sort of mite they might reproduce faster than the lady bugs can eat them. If that's the case I would use neem oil before releasing the lady bugs. So I'm trying to figure out what they are if I can before tommorow.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[bobman]

how does the plant look overall. never had thrips. white disks on the plant sound like white fly larvae.

I have seen some small ash looking stuff on the leaves that appear to be dots at first, but they rub off. I didn't really worry about it till you said something about white flies taking dumps on the leaves. Until then I assumed they were dead thrips or something.

sounds like white flies larvae. if the plant looks healthy overall just relax. white flies do not do real damage until there is a real infestation(and will not kill it just reduce yield) and that usually occurs late in flower. if ur plant looks good overall do not freak out. plants r tough look at the big picture. if the plant looks good do not worry. these plants r not going to look perfect all the time. this must be ur first grow(not trying talk down to u). after a while u will learn not to sweat the small stuff and learn what a real problem is.

 

[DannyGreenEyes]

how does the plant look overall. never had thrips. white disks on the plant sound like white fly larvae.

I have seen some small ash looking stuff on the leaves that appear to be dots at first, but they rub off. I didn't really worry about it till you said something about white flies taking dumps on the leaves. Until then I assumed they were dead thrips or something.

sounds like white flies larvae. if the plant looks healthy overall just relax. white flies do not do real damage until there is a real infestation(and will not kill it just reduce yield) and that usually occurs late in flower. if ur plant looks good overall do not freak out. plants r tough look at the big picture. if the plant looks good do not worry. these plants r not going to look perfect all the time. this must be ur first grow(not trying talk down to u). after a while u will learn not to sweat the small stuff and learn what a real problem is.

Some of the leaves are damaged, but not enough of them to be a real big deal. What's worrying me is the dryness of the leaves. And my plants seem to need a lot more water all of a sudden. I was watering each with 6 cups of water every 4 or 5 days. I just watered 2 days ago and they needed water already.

Other than the dryness and a little leaf damage they don't really look bad.

The main thing I think is knowing that they're something the lady bugs will kill off for me. If not then I have to treat with a pesticide which I would want to do before releasing the lady bugs, which I've been trying to do for 4 days now (taking longer than I thought to get the room set up)

If they're white flies then I'm golden. I'm sure the lady bugs will feast on them. But if they're mites of some kind, then they might reproduce too fast for the lady bugs to handle.

Do white flies bite people? (either to eat or to protect their territory). Because if they do, I think I can safely assume that's what they are.

 

[bobman]

if they need more water it is usually a sign of the plant staring to outgrow the container or temps. white flies do not bite. gnats do come in the soil and i guess could bite u but do no damage to the plants. in my opinion mites r easy to take care with no pest strips but u may want to check health safty issues with them. usually mites r carried in during the summer. from my experience once u take care of mites u never see them again unless u bring in something that has been laying outside. white flies r a pain. totally different story.

 

[bobman]

in my experience white flies r way worse than mites. but they usually do not overwhelm u until late flower. do not sweat it everything will be fine.

 

[DannyGreenEyes]

if they need more water it is usually a sign of the plant staring to outgrow the container or temps. white flies do not bite. gnats do come in the soil and i guess could bite u but do no damage to the plants. in my opinion mites r easy to take care with no pest strips but u may want to check health safty issues with them. usually mites r carried in during the summer. from my experience once u take care of mites u never see them again unless u bring in something that has been laying outside. white flies r a pain. totally different story.

Well the plants have been getting bigger of course, they're about a ft now and full, but I have them in 5 gallon pots so I kinda doubt if they've overgrown them yet.

The heat today was 90, but that's only because the outside temp went up to 50 today. I have a portable A/C that takes air from the outside, which is how I got the thrips. And there's snow on the ground so I'm not gonna assume that mites wont come in the same way. I normally keep it at 80 in the room though.

These aren't gnats, I thought they might be because of the leaf damage. But by now I'd be seeing some flyers which I haven't. Plus these are no gnat bites, I used to get gnat bites when I lived in NY, they would swarm sometimes. These bites look like 2 very small white heads, except they're red instead of white and they wont pop.

You might have gotten rid of mites with pest strips once or twice, but eventually you're gonna get some mites that it doesn't work on. Normally (from what I read) it takes more than one method of killing them to get rid of an infestation.

That's why I got the lady bugs. It's 20% humidity here so if I don't have them now, then it's just a matter of time before I do. But they wont nest when predators are present, it's something they can't become immune to, it's just how they are. BUT, if they already have a nest going when you introduce the predator, they wont abandon the nest. And if the lady bugs can't eat as fast as they reproduce....... you get infested and you don't want to use pesticides because then you have 1,500 lady bugs to clean up. lol

I think they might be white flies by what you've told me. I still don't know what bit me, maybe there was a small spider or something in there that I didn't see. Or maybe I got them when I was out and just didn't realize it. Anyway I'll get the lady bugs in there tommorow and hope for the best. I gotta get a shower & some sleep.

Thanks for your help.