Apple Tree

[natmoon]

Ive never done that i always grew dried out seeds,best of luck

 

[tusseltussel]

you will not get the same apples as the apple the seed came from which is why grafting is needed in fruit tree production

 

[skunkushybrid]

you will not get the same apples as the apple the seed came from which is why grafting is needed in fruit tree production

Why not? Explain this properly please... if this is the case, how do apple trees do it in the wild?

 

[tusseltussel]

ok seeds of an apple normally will not germ after harvest, a period of after ripening is essential for certain chemical and other changes to take place and start the dormant embryo into growth, usually 70-80 days of 38-50 degrees and kept moist. for after ripening soak dry seeds in water for a few hours and place em in a sealed container with damp peat moss bury the container over winter or other cool sheltered place. keep em moist....apples reproduce themselves by means of seed, but their offspring differ widely; thus, they must be maintained by vegetative propagation. by means of grafting, two distinct parts(the root system and the stem and branch system), which may have very diverse characteristics, are made to grow as one.
rootstock's are raised from seed in most cases, French crab seedlings and domestic seedlings have been commonly used.
apple cultivars have originated as a result of planned breeding, selection and chance seedlings.
the commercial cultivars of today are far removed from the wild apples from which they developed over many centuries. several species may have contributed to the development of the modern apple. for this reason the taxonomy of the apple is sumwhat confused. so you have a tree with a different root system pollinated by a different species tree, in most cases this is required for good production so crab apple rootstock+apple tree+ pollen from another apple tree= who knows could be anything and thats all i got in me right now hope it helps

 

[skunkushybrid]

Kinda. I'm not very scientific. There does seem a lot of maybes.

So, is it merely the fact that the tree may have been fertilised by something else, like a different type of apple tree?

I ate the apple, I got the seeds out of. Green with a slight red blush.

In all honesty though, I just want to grow an apple tree in a small pot. The apples don't really bother me.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Oh right. the genetic diversity. I see that now, makes some kind of sense.

The pip/seed root hasn't moved since yesterday, still around the same size and brown.

Is this right? It's popping out around 2-3mm from the casing.

From what you've said, I'm thinking maybe the root has tried to emerge, but cannot grow because the seed isn't mature enough?

I just put the seed straight out of the apple and onto a germ plate in tissue.

 

[skunkushybrid]

check this out skunk Growing Apple Trees In The Home Garden

Thanks for the link, butterfly'... it was interesting. Although it didn't really say much about growing from seed. Plenty about good genetics, etc... but this experiment of mine isn't really about genetics. 1. I just want to see if I can do it.
2. I want to test root development in an ordinary plant/tree.

I want to learn so much, but there is just so much to learn.

 

[butterflykisses]

yea iknow but root stock is how its done in washington state the apple capital of the world? those seeds most likely will never work u should buy some ready to germ just dont like to see any one waste their time. or maybe u could buy some and try those against yours.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Well, i don't like to give up without trying. So, I'll give it my best shot first.

I like failing, expect to fail... hence just putting the seed straight onto the germ' plate. I'd already read that you shouldn't do this. I've found that this is the best way to learn. Know what the mistakes are, then go ahead and make them... sometimes, you just never know.

 

[natmoon]

Well, i don't like to give up without trying. So, I'll give it my best shot first.

I like failing, expect to fail... hence just putting the seed straight onto the germ' plate. I'd already read that you shouldn't do this. I've found that this is the best way to learn. Know what the mistakes are, then go ahead and make them... sometimes, you just never know.

The apple will grow all of mine did,but they need much more care than MJ do.
I reckon if you dont put them outside i dont reckon that you will have any probs.
As to the grafting and pollinating etc. as far as i know they achieve certain kinds of flavours and colours etc. with this method.
The apple that you grow will not look or taste the same as the apple that you ate previously,but it will grow just fine.
The young apple plants dont seem to like wet/humid conditions at all

 

[skunkushybrid]

I still don't get the genetic part. Cannabis has loads of genetic diversity, certainly different phenotypes are produced in each seed batch, no matter how stable the strain is considered. But the resultant seed plants are very rarely much different to the mom they came from.

Why is it a different principle for an apple tree?

 

[natmoon]

I haven't a clue

 

[skunkushybrid]

Well the one on the germ plate hasn't changed a bit since i first noticed the little brown thingy... so I'm going to write it off. The others have been in the freezer for a few days now, can't remember how long... so i'll defrost them tomorrow. Winter came early for them this year though, as i didn't dry them out properly. So while I'm waiting for this one to fail I may as well do it properly next time.

 

[7xstall]

what's being said here about genetics/seeds does not really add up.

i know for a fact that they use the smaller trees for a root system and graft limbs on but they do this to cut down on the growing room they need on the farms. the root zone is smaller and easier to fertilizer/water. that's it.

grafting does not affect the genetics of the limbs or the flowers/pollen they subsequently produce. there is no genetic "drifting" between the limbs and the roots.

Johnny Appleseed did not go around grafting limbs in Washington state, he planted seeds!






.

 

[skunkushybrid]

the root zone is smaller and easier to fertilizer/water. that's it.

So a small root zone is perfectly capable of sustaining a much larger plant... I knew it. No need to do the experiment then.

 

[tusseltussel]

what's being said here about genetics/seeds does not really add up.

i know for a fact that they use the smaller trees for a root system and graft limbs on but they do this to cut down on the growing room they need on the farms. the root zone is smaller and easier to fertilizer/water. that's it.

grafting does not affect the genetics of the limbs or the flowers/pollen they subsequently produce. there is no genetic "drifting" between the limbs and the roots.

Johnny Appleseed did not go around grafting limbs in Washington state, he planted seeds!






.

johny apple seed did not graft but it is standard practice now and for the reasons i said erlyer, what your saying is how to make dwarf plants which is completly diffrnt do some resurch you will find the reason for grafting just as i said, thats the way it is ask a local nurserymen or do the research because grafting is used for many more reasons than creating dwarf varieties, it is done to get the same results every time, grow from seed you may get somthing edible but probably not. you graft to a rootstock of a smaller tree and you get a smaller tree

 

[skunkushybrid]

you graft to a rootstock of a smaller tree and you get a smaller tree

Now this really doesn't make any sense... what you're saying is that if you grafted a larger apple tree to a smaller apple tree root stock, that the apple tree would shrink?

 

[tusseltussel]

Now this really doesn't make any sense... what you're saying is that if you grafted a larger apple tree to a smaller apple tree root stock, that the apple tree would shrink?

nope . you graft a branch from a standard tree to a rootstock of a smaller tree and that branch will grow smaller than a standard tree , it will grow more to the size of the tree the rootstock was taken frrom. not a younger tree of the same variety but a tree that natruly is a smaller tree. you can get a standard, semi dwarf or dwarf tree. so the reason for a smaller rootball is because the tree the rootstock was taken from was a smaller tree.

 

[tusseltussel]

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/county/cass/horticulture/fruit/graft.htm

 

[skunkushybrid]

nope . you graft a branch from a standard tree to a rootstock of a smaller tree and that branch will grow smaller than a standard tree , it will grow more to the size of the tree the rootstock was taken frrom. not a younger tree of the same variety but a tree that natruly is a smaller tree. you can get a standard, semi dwarf or dwarf tree. so the reason for a smaller rootball is because the tree the rootstock was taken from was a smaller tree.

So the rootstock from the previous tree is pre-programmed ONLY for the previous tree size? So even grafting a larger tree branch to the smaller root stock will result in a smaller tree. Excellent.

So this suggests that roots DO send out feeler roots to 'mark out their territory' which explains why the roots of my plants head to the outside of the pots. They mark it out and then settle down. no root bound (at least not in the sense we all presume), they just mark out how much space they have then settle down to collect what nutrients are present in the area. If there is a limited amount the plant above will not grow very big (referring to growing from seed).

Although grafting a 'larger' tree to a small tree root stock should not result in a 'smaller' tree so long as sufficient nutrients are being fed to it... unless the tree is only fed sufficient nutrients for the smaller tree. More likely, is that the tree is smaller when it starts producing apples, and not generally a smaller tree.

If this pisses you off because I haven't clicked the link, just ignore me... that'll force me to click the link.