Stop blaming "issues" on pH people! aka "ah cant take no mo'!

[sir rance alot]

One more last little thing.... My water is 6.8 going in and runoff is 4.6.....Yet all the plants look great except the one on the floor... Never really sweated about the ph but this has me stumped..

 

[Uncle Ben]

One more last little thing.... My water is 6.8 going in and runoff is 4.6.....Yet all the plants look great except the one on the floor... Never really sweated about the ph but this has me stumped..

This is my drill on measuring pH. First, a accurate pH pen (I use Hanna) that is calibrated before use. For checking what I perceive the plant "sees", I water until the rootball is saturated, let set occasionally tipping the pot to drain excess water and when the runoff turns to a few drops, collect and measure in a clean vessel.

For measuring pH of soil, take any amount of soil, put into a clean jar, add de-ionized laboratory grade water, shake well, let it settle a bit and then stick your probe in.

 

[Uncle Ben]

One more last little thing.... My water is 6.8 going in and runoff is 4.6.....Yet all the plants look great except the one on the floor... Never really sweated about the ph but this has me stumped..

Sounds like your soil is peat based, or you're using an acid forming food, or.....

 

[sir rance alot]

I apologize Uncle ben, I do realize you are one of the busiest people on here but I was wondering....Could you look at my earlier post before the one you responded to...Im not too concerned about Ph unless I figure out if temperature has anything to do with it.. Thanks in advance..

 

[sir rance alot]

I am using Miraclegrow Organic potting soil... Botanicare pure blend 1-4-5 for soil...Im in 4th week of flower. Just real concerned about my hard water and low soil temps.

 

[mygirls]

you really know when your ph is way off during flower when the buds just don't do what there supposed to do. and when you harvest your plant and see that the stock is not hollow. a stock that is soild and not hollow is a sioghn of fucked up ph. just my 2 penny's worth. but yes soil is a good buffer thats one reason why i grow in such large pots. i never have a ph problem, nor do i ever have to flush threw my grows. only harvest time.

 

[unity]

I see it all the time, the first thing out of an in-experienced's grower's mouth is "have you checked the pH?" when it comes to a plant problem. If you don't know what the member's problem is, the forum favorite remedy - pH, is not going to help, nor make you look any smarter to the masses. pH adjusted water, especially using organic acids such as citric, will not have any long term corrective affect on most soils - soil is a powerful buffer.

Then it's the old "add epsom salts"....another forum paradigm that won't go away. Most folks only want to help and that's OK, but you can actually do more harm than good if the grower takes advice that is not correct.

pH - Cannabis is quite pH tolerant, it's a nutrient elemental uptake issue (not leaf cupping, wilt, lack of buds, etc.) and as long as the pH of the soil is not totally wacked out i.e. 5.0 or 8.6, you're OK. Hydro is different, a lower pH is usually recommended depending on foods used, type of medium, etc.

Get rid of the cheap moisture and pH meters - they do more harm than good.

Epsom Salts additions - Sorry folks, it's not a magic cure-all as you would like to believe. Since folks provide Mg in some form or fashion to their faves, Mg deficiencies are actually quite rare. An Mg deficiency will show up in the lower to mid level leaves as a chlorosis, a pale yellow or whitish-yellow background in the leaf with green veins. DO NOT OVER CORRECT with 2 tblsp./gallon if you are sure there is indeed a Mg deficiency. By over-correcting, you're gonna be doing another "aw shit" by inducing a deficiency of another element, say..... calcium. The concept is called nutrient antagonism. http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Good luck,
UB

Cheers UB I'm sorry brother but PH may not be as important in organic soil grows but as it relates to hydro it is rather crucial in my opinion and the uptake window is a lot smaller then in soil. I'm sorry if this has been stated, I only read the first post

 

[Uncle Ben]

I am using Miraclegrow Organic potting soil... Botanicare pure blend 1-4-5 for soil...Im in 4th week of flower. Just real concerned about my hard water and low soil temps.

I wouldn't worry about either. My concern is with that 1-4-5. You keep using that stuff and you can expect to lose most of your leaves by harvest. Collect rainwater. You can lightly water your pots with tap water and then finish them off with another flush of rainwater, food mixed in if the plants need it.

 

[NavySupra]

You know, of everything I've read on the forums, UB's has made the most sense and I found it curious when I use his suggested methods... they work.

Using information in the Plant moisture stress thread I was able to identify that my plants were being slightly over fed. I've been easing them back just with water and they are starting to repair themselves.

Promix/Hydroton under 400w CMH. 18/6. No pictures yet, my phone gets far to freaked out by the light.

 

[jawbrodt]

The PH looks off in that plant pictured in Uncle Bens' avatar, and I'm betting that a handful of epsom salts will fit it right up.


Sorry, I had to.

 

[Uncle Ben]

You know, of everything I've read on the forums, UB's has made the most sense and I found it curious when I use his suggested methods... they work.

Using information in the Plant moisture stress thread I was able to identify that my plants were being slightly over fed. I've been easing them back just with water and they are starting to repair themselves.

Promix/Hydroton under 400w CMH. 18/6. No pictures yet, my phone gets far to freaked out by the light.

It's just common (botanical) sense. Glad you're enjoying it.

The PH looks off in that plant pictured in Uncle Bens' avatar, and I'm betting that a handful of epsom salts will fit it right up.

Sorry, I had to.

It really took off when I hung the confederate flag on one of the reflecting walls.

 

[Tokey21]

Uncle Ben, I have followed many of your threads and have learned more from a few of your posts than I have in years. Looking back, your experience could have saved me, and I'm sure countless others, mucho dinero. Thank you...
That being said I have defiency starting to show at week 5/6, and I am having quite the time diagnosing. It looks like either K, Mg or heat stress. I will break it down. Started with a mix pack Lowrider Autos, using GH 3 Part as nutes, liquid seaweed as foliar (Product of Organic Approach), in an Ebb'n'flow system. Week 1 no nutes. Started 2nd week with 2ml/Gal of the GH 3part and increased the dosage 2ml/Gal of all three nutes each week, topping out at 10ml/Gal a week at week 6. The light schedule has been 20/4 from day one, starting with 400w MH, changing over to 500w (250MH/250HPS) about three weeks back. The watering cycle has been 3xday for the last three weeks, since changing over the lights. Temps range from 82F day to 76F at night. RH ranges from 27%-33%. Fans circulate sugar/yeast produced CO2 while lights are on, but this is far from an "enclosed" room.
I have tried moving the lights back first, but that did not seem to help. Next I moved the direction of the fan circulating the CO2 thinking this is the first plant to recieve the enriched air. No luck. I then tried the Epsom Salt Foliar @ 2.5cc/qt for about a week, still with no change. The other plants show minor heat stress, but nothing like this.
I know you have stated (probably a million times) worry about the leaves. If your leaves are green and the roots are not dead your'e good, but I still have to worry. They are my babies after all...

 

[Uncle Ben]

Uncle Ben, I have followed many of your threads and have learned more from a few of your posts than I have in years. Looking back, your experience could have saved me, and I'm sure countless others, mucho dinero. Thank you...

Thanks, that's quite a compliment. You're most welcome.

That being said I have defiency starting to show at week 5/6, and I am having quite the time diagnosing. It looks like either K, Mg or heat stress. I will break it down. Started with a mix pack Lowrider Autos, using GH 3 Part as nutes,

Stop right there. I'm not into product names, I'm into NPK values, frequency and application. Having said that, it doesn't look any deficiency to me, the leaf margin burn looks just like that, a salts burn. See my sig link.

Thanks for the detailed post, but it looks like you're trying too hard. You're throwing alot at your plants and not keeping this thing simple. I'm just as confused as you are. You can't go at this thing hit and miss, it doesn't work that way. If you change something, wait long enough (more than 24 hours) for a reaction. That reaction needs to take place on the NEW growth. The damage has been done on the existing stuff.

IOW, don't drive using your rear view mirror.

UB

 

[Tokey21]

Sorry, never really had much of a green thumb. More of a white coat. The waiting part is what kills coming from more of a chemistry background. I will let it ride for the time being unless the plant takes a turn for the worse. Thanks....

 

[snew]

I use to have aquariums. Balanced PH and Chlorine removal were both easily with just a few drops to the water. Fish are extremely sensitive to chlorine and PH imbalance. I simply use cheap produce from Walmart and my PH is 6.5 and the run off is 6.5. Its a dead issue no problems, no worries.

 

[Kriegs]

I use to have aquariums. Balanced PH and Chlorine removal were both easily with just a few drops to the water. Fish are extremely sensitive to chlorine and PH imbalance. I simply use cheap produce from Walmart and my PH is 6.5 and the run off is 6.5. Its a dead issue no problems, no worries.

Nice tip - thanks for sharing that. I forgot all about dechlorinators, and sometimes I find myself short of water...

 

[Kriegs]

Hey, UB and crew... I thought you would enjoy these fun facts about pH and water. Use and distort as you please.

BTW, I'm a Master's degreed professional in geological sciences, and my field thesis studied the interaction of Phosphorous with high carbonate soils. So, I know a little about pH and the natural environment.

Fact: The natural pH of rainwater is 5.7. Oh, yes it is. This is fixed by the equilibrium chemistry of CO2 and H2O. And further, it virtually NEVER EXCEEDS that value in nature.

Fact: World-wide atmospheric pollution has decreased rainfall pH from that 5.7 value across the world, although the amount of decrease varies depending on where you are. The Northeast US and Blue Ridge Mountains see pH's in the high 3.0's due to upwind coal plants. That explains why no one can grow outdoors in those places (knuck, knuck... ).

Fact: The pollution-driven decline in rainwater pH began around 1870, so MJ managed to live with this nasty water for about 100 years before indoor growing came along to save it.

Fact: About the only place in nature you find waters at 6.5 and higher are places where groundwater is discharging. And those places are way too wet for MJ.

Conclusion: MJ has never seen this magical "pH = 6.5" ever. Never in it's existence, until indoor growing came along.


Challenge: Before you're allowed to debate me (UB excluded of course..), you have to describe the equilibrium chemistry of dolomite to the group here, and tell me why the pH of a peat- or wood-based potting soil with dolomite in it, given water at pH 7.0, can never exceed 8.2 no matter how much dolomite you put in it, and why. If you try to cobb shit off the 'net to bluff me, I'll know it in a second.

 

[sir rance alot]

Carbon man......it's gotta be that damn carbon....

Or was it that damn 3rd or 4th indole ring....

Maybe it's Al-Queda.....I'm confused....

 

[wyteboi]

dolomite is a buffer not just a "ph up" and it will not buffer over 8.2. thats just my guess , i did not use google either , now where i got the info from to begin with probably was google
either way good post.

 

[DaveCoulier]

Hey, UB and crew... I thought you would enjoy these fun facts about pH and water. Use and distort as you please.

BTW, I'm a Master's degreed professional in geological sciences, and my field thesis studied the interaction of Phosphorous with high carbonate soils. So, I know a little about pH and the natural environment.

Fact: The natural pH of rainwater is 5.7. Oh, yes it is. This is fixed by the equilibrium chemistry of CO2 and H2O. And further, it virtually NEVER EXCEEDS that value in nature.

Fact: World-wide atmospheric pollution has decreased rainfall pH from that 5.7 value across the world, although the amount of decrease varies depending on where you are. The Northeast US and Blue Ridge Mountains see pH's in the high 3.0's due to upwind coal plants. That explains why no one can grow outdoors in those places (knuck, knuck... ).

Fact: The pollution-driven decline in rainwater pH began around 1870, so MJ managed to live with this nasty water for about 100 years before indoor growing came along to save it.

Fact: About the only place in nature you find waters at 6.5 and higher are places where groundwater is discharging. And those places are way too wet for MJ.

Conclusion: MJ has never seen this magical "pH = 6.5" ever. Never in it's existence, until indoor growing came along.


Challenge: Before you're allowed to debate me (UB excluded of course..), you have to describe the equilibrium chemistry of dolomite to the group here, and tell me why the pH of a peat- or wood-based potting soil with dolomite in it, given water at pH 7.0, can never exceed 8.2 no matter how much dolomite you put in it, and why. If you try to cobb shit off the 'net to bluff me, I'll know it in a second.

This post makes me feel better about not phing my water/feed anymore. My ladies do just fine like this.

I dont think anyone is gonna take you up on the challenge, but Im sure we'd all enjoy knowing why the ph can't go over 8.2.