CIA takes a hit in Afghanistan

[CrackerJax]

That whole area is a powderkeg ... and nukes are close by. Dang right we better be there.

 

[Rob Roy]

Seriously? How can you justify the targeting of civilians.........women and children? We don't do that. Some would like you to believe that we do but believe me, we don't. I think our foreign policy needs some adjusting but if we pulled out of afghanistan and the middle east altogether they will bring the war to us. If you want to worry if the mall you shop it is going to be bombed or the McDonalds you eat at is going to have a suicide bomber walk in and detonate himself then yeah, let's get out of the middle east. These motherfuckers want you and I dead, end of story. They don't want to negotiate, they don't want money. They want us dead!

Target civilians?
..."we don't do that" ?

I think there are many instances where women and children have died at the hands of men that were wearing the "good guys" uniforms. Here's a sample list...

Trail of Tears - The Cherokee genocide

Wounded Knee Massacre - South Dakota

Hiroshima / Nagasaki, where civilians were vaporized and fried - Japan WWII

My Lai massacre - Viet Nam

How many innocent Iraqi's have died by bombs dropped on them by Allied forces?

I'm not excusing either side. Much of war is a construct where people that don't know each other are convinced to go kill each other so some other bastards can benefit.

Bring the war to us? Bomb McDonalds?
Those fuckers better not mess with our Big Macs!

 

[medicineman]

What about this, the real reasons we are in afghanistan??

COINCIDENCE OR CORRUPTION?

There is some evidence that America could have had an economic motive for replacing the government in Afghanistan. Did this influence America's decision to invade Afghanistan and replace the government? The evidence presented below may be sufficient to raise serious questions about the motivations behind U.S. President Bush's decision to invade Afghanistan, especially in light of Bush's substantial links with the oil industry. Furthermore, recent reports indicate that the September the 11th disaster, which triggered the "war on terror" military campaign, could have been prevented. If there is enough public support, we will issue a formal request for a public statement from the American government. In the meantime, we invite you to consider the evidence below and form your own opinions.

IN 1998 AMERICA WANTED NEW GOVERNMENT IN AFGHANISTAN TO ALLOW CONSTRUCTION OF OIL PIPELINE

America has wanted a new government in Afghanistan since at least 1998, three years before the attacks on 11 September 2001. The official report from a meeting of the U.S. Government's foreign policy committee on 12 February 1998, available on the U.S. Government website, confirms that the need for a West-friendly government was recognised long before the War on Terror that followed September 11th:

• "The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...
  The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our
  support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the
  project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any
  governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,
  Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do
  support the project."
  [ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]
  
  
  "The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,
  Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."
  
  [ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]
  
  
  "CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized
  Afghanistan Government is in place."
  [ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]
  

The Afghanistan oil pipeline project was finally able to proceed in May 2002. This could not have happened if America had not taken military action to replace the government in Afghanistan.

THE CONQUEST OF AFGHANISTAN BEGAN BEFORE 9/11
The war on Afghanistan was sold to the public as a reaction to the attacks on 11 September 2001. However, the war was planned before the infamous 9/11 disaster, and the military action began long before the World Trade Center fell.
The conquest of Afghanistan had been planned since at least 12 February 1998, and 9/11 happened just in time to secure public support for the attacks.
TIMELINE
3rd November 1998 - attacks stop US oil pipeline:
Up to 80 cruise missiles were fired at Afghanistan and Sudan in August An American-funded training project in Afghanistan has closed down as a result of the US cruise missile attack on the country in August. The programme was funded by the American oil company, Unocal, which was once hoping to be involved in building a gas pipeline across the country from Turkmenistan to Pakistan.

BBC News, "US attack closes US project", 3 November 1998.
2nd January 1999 - US strikes targets in Afghanistan:
No sooner had the Taleban won a series of victories in the north, than the US launched an attack on camps in Afghanistan run by Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who had allegedly masterminded the bombing of US embassies in East Africa.

BBC News, "Afghanistan: Campaign of conflict", 2 January 1999.
15th March 2001 - allies invade Afghanistan:
India is believed to have joined Russia, the USA and Iran in a concerted front against Afghanistan's Taliban regime.
Military sources in Delhi, claim that the opposition Northern Alliance's capture of the strategic town of Bamiyan, was precipitated by the four countries' collaborative effort.

Janes International Security News, "India joins anti-Taliban coalition", 15 March 2001.
3rd September 2001 - allies deploy huge task-force for “fictional” conflict:
The aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious has sailed from Portsmouth to lead the biggest Royal Navy and Royal Marine deployment since the Falklands.
HMS Illustrious is the flagship of three groups of warships travelling to the Middle East to take part in exercise "Saif Sareea 2".
More than 24 surface ships from Britain, plus two nuclear submarines, will be completing the 13,000 mile round trip.
The operation, costing nearly £100m, will end with a major excercise before Christmas that will also involve the Army, Royal Air Force and Armed Forces of Oman.
The strike force has been put together to take part in a conflict between the fictional forces of the so-called state of 'Alawham' and those of Oman.

BBC News, Carrier heads for the Middle East, 3 September 2001.
11th September 2001 - the war comes home to America:
*** 9/11 ***
16th March 2001 - Bush prepares America to wage war overseas:
“I want to remind the American people that the prime suspect's [Osama Bin Laden] organisation is in a lot of countries,” Mr Bush told reporters on the White House lawn.

BBC News, "America widens 'crusade' on terror", 16 September 2001.
18th September 2001 - diplomat reveals 9/11 “response” began before 9/11:
A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks.
Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.
Mr Naik said US officials told him of the plan at a UN-sponsored international contact group on Afghanistan which took place in Berlin.
...
The wider objective, according to Mr Naik, would be to topple the Taleban regime and install a transitional government of moderate Afghans in its place - possibly under the leadership of the former Afghan King Zahir Shah.
Mr Naik was told that Washington would launch its operation from bases in Tajikistan, where American advisers were already in place.
He was told that Uzbekistan would also participate in the operation and that 17,000 Russian troops were on standby.
Mr Naik was told that if the military action went ahead it would take place before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.
BBC News, "US 'planned attack on Taleban'", 18 September 2001.
Next stop:
*** IRAQ ***
So all this BS about helping Afghans and Iraqis is just that, total Bullshit! It's all about the money, as usual. You cons that can't see this, pull your heads out as you told me. Quit making shit up or following the government talking points. Think for yourselves and investigate the real reasons behind these two wars, it's not about helping anyone but the elites that are war profiteers, wake the fuck up.

 

[PadawanBater]

Of course we're staying for a while. We've already been there for almost 9 years. And if Afghanistan ever does get a working govt. and they want us to leave I'm sure we'll gladly pack up and go. The only intentions that I can see the U.S. and it's allies having is to stop the Taliban from regaining power and preventing al qaeda from setting up shop again. Think about it for a minute before you respond.

Dude, I respect you, you don't flame and you're usually pretty civil and respectful, I appreciate that, but I think this post is just naive. Why would we spend billions on two bases unless there were some sort of strategic advantage to having them? It's exactly the same as the nation if Israel, it's a strategic advantage point to the entire middle east. They're occupying these bases to secure American interests, not protect the Afghan people from the Taliban or AQ.

Whatever puppet gov. we install after this one is gone is going to play the same game. They're going to be put there by American influence, just like Karzai was, then be nothing but that, a puppet for the people, to make them believe they have actual power, while agreeing and siding with whatever American interests become.

It's about money, always has been, not security or safety.

Like I said before, and jeff must have missed the fuck out of, there are equally as terrible regimes, people, warlords, criminals all over the world who are doing much worse shit than the Taliban, yet not a fuckin' PEEP from any American official... Nothing to protect with the red white and blue on it in those countries, so fuck the populations, they couldn't give a damn less.

 

[doc111]

Dude, I respect you, you don't flame and you're usually pretty civil and respectful, I appreciate that, but I think this post is just naive. Why would we spend billions on two bases unless there were some sort of strategic advantage to having them? It's exactly the same as the nation if Israel, it's a strategic advantage point to the entire middle east. They're occupying these bases to secure American interests, not protect the Afghan people from the Taliban or AQ.

Whatever puppet gov. we install after this one is gone is going to play the same game. They're going to be put there by American influence, just like Karzai was, then be nothing but that, a puppet for the people, to make them believe they have actual power, while agreeing and siding with whatever American interests become.

It's about money, always has been, not security or safety.

Like I said before, and jeff must have missed the fuck out of, there are equally as terrible regimes, people, warlords, criminals all over the world who are doing much worse shit than the Taliban, yet not a fuckin' PEEP from any American official... Nothing to protect with the red white and blue on it in those countries, so fuck the populations, they couldn't give a damn less.

A portion of war is about making money. War profiteering is alive and well. Eisenhower warned about the Military Industrial Complex in the early 50's. We didn't just waltz into Afghanistan to liberate their country from an oppressive regime. We were attacked by guys who were trained and given support by said regime. We have to have bases placed strategically around the world in order to protect our's and our allies interests. Is everything we do on the up and up? Surely not. Do I like everything we are doing? No, but war is ugly business and sometimes one must compromise one's own values in order to succeed at this dirty business. Do you think we should just become an isolationist? Why not give up Ipods and TV's because we don't make any of that shit anymore.

 

["SICC"]

its not just a portion, war is nothing more then about making money, like everything else is

 

[Operation 420]

Those 8 were probably up for a raise, so they used them as martyrs to pump up their anti Muslim agenda.

Look at Fox War Channel and how they're trying point out Yemen. Umm, we released prisoners from Gitmo to Saudi Arabia and Yemen, what do they expect? A few of them were released under Bush's watch in 2007, so it's not just Obama.

All these blood thristy mofo's want to do is send our boys and girls over to die for the Zionists. F them!

 

[doc111]

Target civilians?
..."we don't do that" ?

I think there are many instances where women and children have died at the hands of men that were wearing the "good guys" uniforms. Here's a sample list...

Trail of Tears - The Cherokee genocide

Wounded Knee Massacre - South Dakota

Hiroshima / Nagasaki, where civilians were vaporized and fried - Japan WWII

My Lai massacre - Viet Nam

How many innocent Iraqi's have died by bombs dropped on them by Allied forces?

I'm not excusing either side. Much of war is a construct where people that don't know each other are convinced to go kill each other so some other bastards can benefit.

Bring the war to us? Bomb McDonalds?
Those fuckers better not mess with our Big Macs!

So you throw up a few examples of civilians being killed and perhaps even targeted by rogue military leaders. Hiroshima and Nagasaki.................unfortunate and if we could take it back I'm sure we would. I think our leaders felt that they would be saving lives on both sides by doing it and perhaps they did. I was in the military for 8 years bro. Not once was I ever ordered nor did I ever fire or see anybody fire at civilians. Our country doesn't make it a policy to target civilians. It does happen from time to time and it's unfortunate but that doesn't make our entire military or our government a bunch of savages or terrorists going into crowded marketplaces and detonating explosive vests strapped to our teenage bodies. We don't fly our planes into office buildings full of women, children and civilians. Seriously, if you guys all think that we are the bad guys I think you have a moral obligation to get out from behind your computer and start actively protesting and lobbying your congressmen. Well, what are ya waiting for?

 

["SICC"]

hey that's my line, i always tell everyone to go out and actually do something

 

[doc111]

[QUOTE="SICC";3618669]its not just a portion, war is nothing more then about making money, like everything else is[/QUOTE]
I take issue with that man. I served in the first gulf war and Somalia. I feel pretty good about what I did over there even though I didnt' like everything I saw. We guarded food shipments and food distribution centers which were attacked by warlords almost daily so we could feed those starving people in Somalia. I personally vaccinated over a thousand children while I was there so please don't act like it's all about money 'cause it ain't.

 

[Operation 420]

Seriously, if you guys all think that we are the bad guys I think you have a moral obligation to get out from behind your computer and start actively protesting and lobbying your congressmen. Well, what are ya waiting for?

Oh, you mean like Tea Party protests and the Health Care debates where the public was ignored?

Kinda hard to have your voice heard when nobody wants to listen.

 

[Operation 420]

I take issue with that man. I served in the first gulf war and Somalia. I feel pretty good about what I did over there even though I didnt' like everything I saw. We guarded food shipments and food distribution centers which were attacked by warlords almost daily so we could feed those starving people in Somalia. I personally vaccinated over a thousand children while I was there so please don't act like it's all about money 'cause it ain't.

Somalia and the First Iraq war were different. Iraq invaded Kuwait, so we responded. Warlords took over Somalia, so we responded.

Now. The current war in Iraq, well, we sold them those weapons of mass destruction during the Iran war, so we knew they had them. Look at the awesome picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam after the arms deal was negotiated.

So where are we at now. We sell WMD's to a country, then attack them for it. Then we release prisoners from Gitmo to Yemen, and are about to attack them for it. See a trend?

If we as a Nation were so willing to help those in need, we should have troops in Darfur helping save those people.

 

[doc111]

Oh, you mean like Tea Party protests and the Health Care debates where the public was ignored?

Kinda hard to have your voice heard when nobody wants to listen.

I agree, but what other option do we have other than violent uprising?

Somalia and the First Iraq war were different. Iraq invaded Kuwait, so we responded. Warlords took over Somalia, so we responded.

Now. The current war in Iraq, well, we sold them those weapons of mass destruction during the Iran war, so we knew they had them. Look at the awesome picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam after the arms deal was negotiated.

So where are we at now. We sell WMD's to a country, then attack them for it. Then we release prisoners from Gitmo to Yemen, and are about to attack them for it. See a trend?

I don't give a shit about Iraq. Sadam needed to go, he's gone, it was a fucked up war and a lot of people died but it's coming to an end and they have a democracy, end of story. As for Afghanistan..........why are we even making parallels to Afghanistan. It's a just war even if you don't like everything that goes on. It's war! Bad shit always happens and will continue as long as wars are fought. They aren't supposed to be fun or pretty.

 

["SICC"]

I take issue with that man. I served in the first gulf war and Somalia. I feel pretty good about what I did over there even though I didnt' like everything I saw. We guarded food shipments and food distribution centers which were attacked by warlords almost daily so we could feed those starving people in Somalia. I personally vaccinated over a thousand children while I was there so please don't act like it's all about money 'cause it ain't.

Im not questioning your service, what you did was wonderful, but it only happened because some one was making money off of it

you basically got used for some one else's plans and survived, like any one who enlists into anything

 

[Operation 420]

I agree, but what other option do we have other than violent uprising?

I don't give a shit about Iraq. Sadam needed to go, he's gone, it was a fucked up war and a lot of people died but it's coming to an end and they have a democracy, end of story. As for Afghanistan..........why are we even making parallels to Afghanistan. It's a just war even if you don't like everything that goes on. It's war! Bad shit always happens and will continue as long as wars are fought. They aren't supposed to be fun or pretty.

Look up the countries that don't have their currency controlled by the World Bank. Hmm, seems to match our list of enemies doesn't it?

It's all about money and power. Like I said, if it wasn't, we would be in Darfur right now. How many people have died in that genocide?

and bro, I appreciate your service and this isn't a bash on fellow service men/women. (Ooh Rah!) This is a bash on the governments that are using our boys and girls like cattle.
/salute

 

[doc111]

[QUOTE="SICC";3618813]Im not questioning your service, what you did was wonderful, but it only happened because some one was making money off of it

you basically got used for some one else's plans and survived, like any one who enlists into anything[/QUOTE]
But you're saying that's all it's about and it's not. Good things come from war. To name some examples:

Civil War--Slaves freed
WW2--Nazis prevented from taking over the world and exterminating the Jews
First gulf war--Sadam ousted from Kuwait
Somalia--Hungry people fed and given medical assistance
Afghanistan--brutal islamic regime ousted and democracy brought to a country which has never had a real govt.
2nd gulf war--Sadam is gone from power and no longer able to murder and brutalize the Kurds or Shiites.


Now maybe these are the fortunate side effects of going to war but at least something good usually comes from the wars we fight (I'm sure I've left out many examples). So it can't just all be about $$.

 

[doc111]

Look up the countries that don't have their currency controlled by the World Bank. Hmm, seems to match our list of enemies doesn't it?

It's all about money and power. Like I said, if it wasn't, we would be in Darfur right now. How many people have died in that genocide?

and bro, I appreciate your service and this isn't a bash on fellow service men/women. (Ooh Rah!) This is a bash on the governments that are using our boys and girls like cattle.
/salute

I don't like the governmental exploitation of it's citizens either............but it's probably not ever going to change. Somebody's got to do the dirty work in the world. And of course we spend our money and commit our troops where our interests are. Almost all countries do the same thing (although to a lesser degree) and have done the same thing throughout history. I don't like it either but like I keep saying, "It's a sad reality of life."

 

[Operation 420]

But you're saying that's all it's about and it's not. Good things come from war. To name some examples:

Civil War--Slaves freed
WW2--Nazis prevented from taking over the world and exterminating the Jews
First gulf war--Sadam ousted from Kuwait
Somalia--Hungry people fed and given medical assistance
Afghanistan--brutal islamic regime ousted and democracy brought to a country which has never had a real govt.
2nd gulf war--Sadam is gone from power and no longer able to murder and brutalize the Kurds or Shiites.


Now maybe these are the fortunate side effects of going to war but at least something good usually comes from the wars we fight (I'm sure I've left out many examples). So it can't just all be about $$.

Bro, I'm not sure if you know this, but Karzai is a criminal and he appoints druglords to his cabinet. His brother controls southern Afghanistan and is one of the biggest druglords in the country.

How is that bringing democracy to Afghanistan bro?

 

[PadawanBater]

Our country doesn't make it a policy to target civilians. It does happen from time to time and it's unfortunate but that doesn't make our entire military or our government a bunch of savages or terrorists going into crowded marketplaces and detonating explosive vests strapped to our teenage bodies. We don't fly our planes into office buildings full of women, children and civilians. Seriously, if you guys all think that we are the bad guys I think you have a moral obligation to get out from behind your computer and start actively protesting and lobbying your congressmen. Well, what are ya waiting for?

I refuse to believe it's just a bunch of idiots at the top who honestly have our best interest at heart. There is no way our system could produce the worst people to be the leader, the system is designed to keep the people with power in power, and everything else is an illusion to make all of us believe we have some sort of choice in the matter, that our votes actually count towards something. The thing about that is, if all the people, from each party, are running the exact same scam, whoever gets elected from either side doesn't matter to the power and control structure, no policies change, nothing changes except the people "in charge". That's why when people play partisan politics, I feel like slapping them in the face because they're so goddamn stupid and don't see the obvious scam going on right in front of their face. I'm not alluding to some shadow government with a select group of people in control of the world like Alex Jones spouts off, I'm talking realistic, logically supported motivations for these people to take the money over what's best for America, and we're all susceptible to the same thing, greed. It's imprinted on us as human beings. We're monkeys who have figured out how to use money. The basic animal instincts are always going to be there. Am I saying all politicans are this way? Of course not, that's absurd. I'm sure some of them are honest people who do have Americas best interest at heart, but there's not enough of them. The corrupt ones far outweigh the honest ones.

This same structure works for the military. I bet almost all of the people in the military are honest people just trying to do their job and support their country the best way they know how. But they've been misled, lied to, misinformed, and fed propaganda their entire life as a consequence of the way we live in America. I experienced it myself, I was planning on joining the Airforce for at least 5 years as a kid, going through till about 11th or 12th grade. The propaganda machine did a pretty good job on me for a while, and actually got quite a bit of my friends to sign up. They tell you you're fighting for freedom, you grow up thinking it's honorable to fight for your country, without ever really considering who you might be fighting or why. And there's always an "enemy" to go defend our freedom from. Which is kind of ironic in a sick kind of way...

Why don't I actively protest this? Honestly, because most people don't believe it. Most people are under that exact same propaganda machine, still, as adults. The majority of the American public is not educated past a high school level.

/rant

A portion of war is about making money. War profiteering is alive and well. Eisenhower warned about the Military Industrial Complex in the early 50's. We didn't just waltz into Afghanistan to liberate their country from an oppressive regime. We were attacked by guys who were trained and given support by said regime. We have to have bases placed strategically around the world in order to protect our's and our allies interests. Is everything we do on the up and up? Surely not. Do I like everything we are doing? No, but war is ugly business and sometimes one must compromise one's own values in order to succeed at this dirty business. Do you think we should just become an isolationist? Why not give up Ipods and TV's because we don't make any of that shit anymore.

We can't morally support this system when we know this stuff. I can't anyway. War should be unacceptable to any rational persons mind. Essentially what it comes down to is you support killing another human being because of a disagreement. When you're face to face with that realization it's a little different right, but when you're thousands of miles from home "just following orders" from a guy who gets his foreign policy advice from a page in genesis, somehow it's OK, because war is an ugly business? Nah man.. not in my book. In my opinion, anyone who makes a profit from human suffering, which doesn't only apply to fighting a war, is sick.

I take issue with that man. I served in the first gulf war and Somalia. I feel pretty good about what I did over there even though I didnt' like everything I saw. We guarded food shipments and food distribution centers which were attacked by warlords almost daily so we could feed those starving people in Somalia. I personally vaccinated over a thousand children while I was there so please don't act like it's all about money 'cause it ain't.

Excellent example of the good the soldiers can do in the world.

 

[doc111]

Bro, I'm not sure if you know this, but Karzai is a criminal and he appoints druglords to his cabinet. His brother controls southern Afghanistan and is one of the biggest druglords in the country.

How is that bringing democracy to Afghanistan bro?

I don't know him personally but I've heard this before. The opium trade is the only real economy that country has. And yes, corruption is rampant. We aren't going to change these people's way of life overnight. And personally, I don't want to. Let them grow poppies and make all the smack they want. I think drugs should be legal no matter how bad they are for you. It should be a fundamental right for anybody to put whatever they want in their body, as long as they aren't harming anyone else of course.