The argument that convinced my parents

[The Grinch]

When arguing legalization we always seem to use the legality of alcohol and ciggs as a reason for the legalization of cannabis. Many of the ppl, including my parents, that i try to argue against would be happy to see alcohol and ciggs banned along side the green.

It seems that artificial and refined sugars which are found in many of the foods available to ppl of all ages, cause far more debilatiting diseases, physical mental and social, than weed ever could - diabetes, heart diseases, obesity, crohns disease, hyperactivity, depression, anxiety, hypoglycema, and many more. Oh yeah, and its highly addictive.

Many of the people that i deal with are aware of at least some of these side effects - usually heart probs and diabetes - yet still happily partake in foods with high levels of sugar and saturated fats.
Presenting the idea that someone could come in and remove their ability to add a spoon full of sugar to their cereal in the morning because it can cause dangerous health problems, and offers no benefit besides adding a bit of sweetness to your morning (ring a bell) really brings it home.
Sugar is a good one to argue with because there don't seem to be any health benefits to consuming refined sugars beyond those naturally available through other foods (fruit, vegs, honey etc) in order to achieve a balanced intake, really seems to make the argument a little more relatable to people who condemn alcohol ciggarettes or alcohol.
I haven't spoken to any rational person who has had a counter argument, that coudn't be quickly overcome with google, to my sugar view.

Once you have people thinking about this you can start bringing in potential and proven health benefits of cannabis. The fact that it can be consumed via a vaporizor, food or drink and as such no proven adverse side effects - besides the potential mental side effects, which seem to be quite similar to those from sugar - I think the papers on the mental effects are extremely flawed in both methodology and conclusion, but i'm not getting into that now. And unlike with ciggys, no 2nd hand smoke so kinda kills any potential counters.

There are others like saturated fats that you can bring into it as well, but i'm too stoned to think of them at the moment.

This is the argument that won over my parents and a few others who had never thought of its legaltiy and are now asking questions about high effects.

Being well versed in the false , flawed research that is used to demonize mull also helps, because once you've made the problem relatable, people try to distance themselves by attacking cannabis, and being able to argue with scientific reasearch really helps. I wont go into these because they are well documented in many threads.

Anyway I'm pretty smashed and its late so I hope this didn't come out like a bit of mindless rant, but it made sense when I was sober, and has helped me convince a number of people.

Keep it Green
The Grinch

P.S.
Oh yeah, and if sugar was illegal we'd have diabetics running around with medical jelly beans, and people trying to buy off them, or get their doctor to lie about a medical condition so they could buy themselves and not be a criminal - don't you love stoner thoughts

 

[hempcurescancer]

I'm glad I didn't have to convince my parents that the cannabis plant should be legal. They already knew. So sorry you had to live in a biased house, glad you convinced them.

 

[The Grinch]

Thanks mate. It would have been nice to come from such an accepting enviro, especially because my mum, grandma and myself have problems whose symptoms could be seriously eased by cannabis. On the plus side, it was incredibly satisfying to be able to school my fam on mull, just wish I had had a spliff handy so i could have lit up at the end.

 

[BIOHazard87]

Nice idea / argument, but there are people who will say,

"Sugar doesn't impair one's ability to drive for a full 24+ hours like weed does, therefore putting us all in danger"

 

[The Grinch]

Nice idea / argument, but there are people who will say,

"Sugar doesn't impair one's ability to drive for a full 24+ hours like weed does, therefore putting us all in danger"

Hey biohazard. We would have several different responses to this.
Mine would be that we are not after legalisation while driving, and that legalisation could mean better policing of the problem since it would be more focused.

But that aside, many of the side effects of over consumtion of sugar would effect a persons ability to drive, and since there have never been any real tests (that i could find) on the effects of high sugar levels while driving, its not a statement they can make and backup.
It would be easy to make an argument that a sugar rush, or high, can result in increased confidence and misperception of their abilities resulting in impaired judgement.
An increase in anxiety and the need to move around could lead to aggression in certain traffic situations, which could also affect their ability to make a good decision.
I was unable to find any real studies on the effect of driving while experiencing a sugar rush, or low, but their are definate problems to driving with improper sugar/insulin levels if your diabetic, which seems to be on the increase, as a result of our overconsumption of sugar, not marijuana - Bam! Next!

I know the point your making though. If a persons not willing to hear your answers they will always have another question, and when you've answered all of their questions they'll just ask their first 1 again.
Thats when you slap them, give them a joint(one of those disposable portable vaps would be better these days) and walk away.

Grinch Out

 

[Sr. Verde]

Nice idea / argument, but there are people who will say,

"Sugar doesn't impair one's ability to drive for a full 24+ hours like weed does, therefore putting us all in danger"

Then you tell them the stats


I heard something like 17 MJ related accidents in 2005 compared to like 220,000 related to alcohol

Maybe I'm wrong, but I never hear about people crashing their cars

IMO if your too baked to drive, you really probably don't want to drive around anyway


Someone maybe find those statistics? Google doesn't help, mainly stuff like, "Marijuana impairs your ability to drive blah blah blah"

I never had a problem driving and toking, but then again I never smoked more than a gram in the car, its not fun to be super high and drive, its great to be baked with some good tunes going though

 

[thizz13]

I love smokin with my pops!! Good times

 

[Reubs]

I totally agree with The Grinch....I get so pissed off with people who claim MJ is a major source of accidents on the roads - I used to use the caffeine analogy (a good sativa will put ones mind into a hyper-vigilant state, not unlike a good dose of caffeine), but your sugar parallel seems far superior!
I simply cannot comprehend the fact that somebody else can tell me how my body reacts and I have to just accept it.
In NZ they have just introduced a law where you can be randomly drug tested (inc. MJ) whilst driving. . this is bullshit - I know for a fact I am a better driver whilst medicated (as I have heinous diskinesias from past 'big pharma' drugs when I'm not medicated) my medicine enables me to function and I know numerous people who would say the same.

 

[Cherokee Rose]

Hey Grinch and All,

Newbie here. Nice to meet you. Wanted to stop in and say Thanks for the great views and info for the sugar argument. I’m going to remember them the next time someone tries to tell me that “all of us MMJ users are just a bunch of Pot-Heads faking it so we can get away with doing something that is illegal.” And I’m going to see what I can come up with for the Sat Fat aspect of it too. Funny isn’t it, how those are the very people who usually have a medicine cabinet full of all kinds of pharmaceuticals at their fingertips? I’d bet even money that if they had to deal with debilitating Migraines, PTSD, TMJ, Fibro, Insomnia, depression, unpredictable seizures and full blown panic attacks (brain damage - not sugar) on a daily basis that they would have at least one handy dandy little pill for it, but I don’t call them Pill-Poppers. Got scrips for all kinds of stuff that supposedly was going to at least help if not cure the problem - they said - before I got approved and all they did was interact badly, make me nauseous and make me even more non-functional. So given a real choice I chose Mother Nature, not some lab.

Wish Mom and Dad were here to hear your thoughts on the subject, Mom any way. Dad was a ‘good old boy’ who would have probably said “Fire it up!” but Mom was an entirely different story. Probably bought into the propaganda of Reefer Madness or something. The worst she did in the 33 years I knew her before she passed (78 yrs.) was smoked cig’s, drank coffee, ate fried foods and played Bingo once a week. But I’d bet she could write an entire chapter about the effects of sugar and artificial sweeteners, flavorings, and preservatives on ADHD kids for a book on sugar related issues though.

None of us could figure out why my son was such a supercharged holy terror when he came home from spending the night at Gramma’s until I finally had to take him to the Dr. and he was diagnosed as being hyper. Grampa had a wicked sweet-tooth, and of course, he always shared. Thank heaven he was an old fashioned G.P. that agreed with me when I told him that I didn’t want him put on Ritalin and gave me a book on the proper diet for hyper people and told me that if I watched his diet and cut out all the artificial garbage and refined sugar that he would out-grow it, which he did. It just became second nature and I still follow it. So, like you, I get the majority of my sugar from fresh fruits, veggies and a little honey or Sugar In The Raw now and then and use as little salt as possible.

Thanks again for the extra ammo gang. Looking forward to keeping up with this thread. Take care and continue to walk the Right Path. Thanks for the mental image of some scummy guy standing on the corner of the alley whispering "Pssst..... Wanna piece of candy little girl???" LOLOL I needed that. It's been another one of those crappy all nighters and I'm sure that giggle will help carry me through the day!

C R

 

[BIOHazard87]

I know the point your making though. If a persons not willing to hear your answers they will always have another question, and when you've answered all of their questions they'll just ask their first 1 again.
Thats when you slap them, give them a joint(one of those disposable portable vaps would be better these days) and walk away.

Grinch Out

Nice points and thanks for the response, I'm always trying to improve my knowledge level and improve in debates. You're correct though, these people will always come up with a new idea to throw at you, and unless you have instant access to all the facts to disprove them, then normally they will be claimed the winner of a debate and continue to think their ways of supporting prohibition are correct.

Another, VERY common argument that wasn't addressed in this thread yet, is that

"It's a fact Marijuana lowers motivation, etc, it will ruin the society and make everyone lazy/stupid, etc"

I don't have a very good response to that, other than that is not true for a lot of people, and that if it were treated like cigarettes (legal to smoke wherever) , then people who smoke would be more motivated to go out and get jobs as they wouldn't be worried about having to pass a drug test, also they could probably perform better as they're not worried/paranoid as much about what others think, hindering a smokers ability to focus on a task at hand.

I simply cannot comprehend the fact that somebody else can tell me how my body reacts and I have to just accept it.
In NZ they have just introduced a law where you can be randomly drug tested (inc. MJ) whilst driving. . this is bullshit - I know for a fact I am a better driver whilst medicated (as I have heinous diskinesias from past 'big pharma' drugs when I'm not medicated) my medicine enables me to function and I know numerous people who would say the same.

Agreed, but these prohibitionists will say "its factually proven how your body reacts, and it is dangerous" and also that "you are delusional when you're high and just THINK you drive better even though you're actually not (similar to alcohol)"

I have had friends say they believe that I drive better when I'm high. I drive less aggressive, but not overly slow/stupid, and my steering/braking is very smooth.

 

[MaxBet]

Another, VERY common argument that wasn't address in this thread yet, is that

"It's a fact Marijuana lowers motivation, etc, it will ruin the society and make everyone lazy/stupid, etc"

I don't have a very good response to that, other than that is not true for a lot of people, and that if it were treated like cigarettes (legal to smoke wherever) , then people who smoke would be more motivated to go out and get jobs as they wouldn't be worried about having to pass a drug test, also they could probably perform better as they're not worried/paranoid as much about what others think, hindering a smokers ability to focus on a task at hand.

Great points man!!!

Not having to worry about anything/anyone while doing stuff (high) would increase the output (quality & quantity) of people who have jobs that its influence could supplement.

A relaxed work place is a productive workplace.

take Google for example, the atmosphere in their office(s) are chill and chill some more. Pool tables, lounges, and "home" type stuff. Google has Grown to be a huge world company in a relatively short time. Android is amazing aswell!!!

Google knows whats up with MJ!!! haha


BIO HAZ.....yer the man

 

[The Grinch]

Hey Cherokee Rose, glad could help a bit. That image got be pretty laughing as well.

Another, VERY common argument that wasn't address in this thread yet, is that

"It's a fact Marijuana lowers motivation, etc, it will ruin the society and make everyone lazy/stupid, etc"

When people come up with these 'facts' my responses are usually simple. Show me the results of these comprehensive studies that lead to these facts.
People always seem to know someone who knows someone who knows someone whos life was ruined by marijuana. You should let these people know that 1 person isn't anything more than a statistic (a sad 1 if true) and the only evidence they have, if any, is that sometimes lazy and apathetic people are attracted to marijuana. Nothing more, nothing less.
There are other threads which list all the successful people who have contributed a lot to society while smoking - which I will get if you need, but I'm way to stoned to be fucked doing it at the moment (haha).
I try and be honest when I argue, so I let them know that this isn't evidence that it doesn't cause apathy and laziness, just that their is no real evidence of either - all though if you were happy to, knowledge of this board would be provide a good statistical counter.

The stupidity myth is based on poor scientific method in the 70s which was disproved years ago.

"it will ruin society"
It hasn't ruined netherlands, which has less cases of smoking then its neibouring countries.
There have been trials in spain which show that legalization has benefits - again to stoned and lazy to chase them down at the moment, but if anybody struggles with the search function in google i'll put it in.
When they ended alcohol prohibition, their was a reduction in violence and abuse, which, if their statments and beliefs were true, would be impossible, yet its there in the history books for them to read.
So the evidence is quite to the contrary, and it would seem that it would have many positive side effects.

They are using the effects of prohibition as evidence against legalisation, which is just backwards.

 

[ChicoGranjero]

Nice points and thanks for the response, I'm always trying to improve my knowledge level and improve in debates. You're correct though, these people will always come up with a new idea to throw at you, and unless you have instant access to all the facts to disprove them, then normally they will be claimed the winner of a debate and continue to think their ways of supporting prohibition are correct.

Another, VERY common argument that wasn't addressed in this thread yet, is that

"It's a fact Marijuana lowers motivation, etc, it will ruin the society and make everyone lazy/stupid, etc"

I don't have a very good response to that, other than that is not true for a lot of people, and that if it were treated like cigarettes (legal to smoke wherever) , then people who smoke would be more motivated to go out and get jobs as they wouldn't be worried about having to pass a drug test, also they could probably perform better as they're not worried/paranoid as much about what others think, hindering a smokers ability to focus on a task at hand.







Agreed, but these prohibitionists will say "its factually proven how your body reacts, and it is dangerous" and also that "you are delusional when you're high and just THINK you drive better even though you're actually not (similar to alcohol)"

I have had friends say they believe that I drive better when I'm high. I drive less aggressive, but not overly slow/stupid, and my steering/braking is very smooth.

Biohazard, great argument, I just want to elaborate on this and mention that I have been through this discussion many times before about marijuana being a cause for wreckless driving. and my answer is that this is TRUE. I have operated machinery under the influence of marijuana and it CAN inhibit your motor skills when performing daily tasks. Of course, with practice, you learn how to work with this, but IMO no one should perform any tasks that may harm themselves or others when under the influence of ANY medicine or drug.

Now, please note that I said MEDICINE or DRUG... this means that I am 1000% for marijuana but I am not naive. I realize that marijuana, when taken in large doses, can affect my judgement and reactions on the road or anything else I may do JUST LIKE MANY OTHER PRESCRIPTION DRUGS DO. I know better than to pop 2 prescribed pain pills and zip off on a long drive or even drink some nyquil and try to stay awake in class... IT JUST DOESNT WORK... it doesnt necessarily make marijuana bad, its just that it must be taken in MODERATION.

MODERATION is the key. Everyones reaction to any type of drug is different from person to person. Read the fine print on any bottle of medicine and you will see where they constantly advise to gauge your reaction to the medicine and use sound judgement before you perform day to day tasks. Even Advil has a disclaimer!

For all that are so hellbent against marijuana and want to blame it for wreckless driving please keep in mind that DUI's can be issued for any substance that inhibits your ability to drive. Including Soda if its giving you a sugar rush!

Next, I tottally agree with you Biohazard that the government realizes what Marijuana will do to our society when it comes to motivation... do you know how hard it is to convince a stoner to fight a war? Or how about getting a stoner to commit to any malicious acts or violence? Our world is centered around war and violence... it is the basis of our economy... business and countries war every day. You take that motivation away, and the world is forced to change. There have been times when everything in my life seems to have been going south... i smoke a j... and suddenly i dont give a fuck! love and peace... god is good, and thank god he gave us a plant to assist us in slowing our minds and thinking things through. You cannot deny that Marijuana helps you to see the world more clearly... it may take you more time to think things through but when you become clearheaded you never forget what you thought about so intensely!


in conclusion i believe the world fully recognizes the BS propaganda that plagues MJ and yes, our generation will see it legalized within the next decade. One day our children will read about what the DEA Nazis did to something so innocent and beneficial to our society and laugh. Too bad it has taken so long to get there, but the future is bright!

 

[The Grinch]

Hey people.
Read some interesting information about nicotine on wikipedia, which based on the lack of true cannabis research seems relevant.

Recent studies have found that nicotine, a drug with psychoactive properties, also has antipsychotic applications. The interesting part is that people with schizophrenia actually have genetic predisposition towards nicotine. It seems that 75-90% of people with schizophrenia actually smoke.

If that had been a study on cannabis and schizaphrenia the 75-90% would be used as evidence to show that cannabis caused schizaphrenia, as opposed to the possibility that people with these problems are drawn to this and similar products as a means of self medication, either wittingly or not.

Anyway, thats another stoner rant down
Grinch Out

"It has been noted that the majority of people diagnosed with schizophrenia smoke tobacco. Estimates for the number of schizophrenics that smoke range from 75% to 90%. It was recently argued that the increased level of smoking in schizophrenia may be due to a desire to self-medicate with nicotine.[65][66] More recent research has found that mildly-dependent users got some benefit from nicotine, but not those who dependent.[67] All of these studies are based only on observation, and no interventional (randomized) studies have been done. Research on nicotine as administered through a patch or gum is ongoing."

"Additionally, studies have shown that there are genes predisposing people with schizophrenia to nicotine use.[70]
Therefore with these factors taken together the heavy usage of cigarettes and other nicotine related products among people with schizophrenia may be explained and novel antipsychotic agents developed that have these effects in a manner that is not harmful and controlled and is a promising arena of research for schizophrenia."