Two Obamas?

ViRedd

New Member
So, I guess if it blows in your favor there is no arguement than:confused:
As long as Obama, or any other politician in either party remains a statist, then their "wind" is not blowing in my favor.

Now then, if Obama would stand up and say something like: "I have come to the conclusion that there are powers that have undermined liberty in this country over the past 100 years. Because I have come to that conclusion, I will be taking a different tack with my administration. From this day forward, until the end of my term, I, and my administration will be working to abolish the federal income tax, abolish all federal departments, programs and cabinets that do not comply with the Constitution, and I will dedicate myself to restoring liberty to the people of this great country." Then, I would be in support of Obama. In fact, I'd be turning cartwheels.
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
Just so you don't accuse me of dodging the rest of your post, I will simply say I don't really have anything to say. I see no need to defend Obama. I don't consider myself a liberal. I have no problem accepting the liberal label because I am a liberal to people like you. But issue by issue I consider myself perhaps slightly conservative. Im pro 2nd amendment and an NRA member. I am very much against cap and trade. Im not positive global warming is man made. Im also against things like affirmative action. Im pro death penalty. I oppose long term welfare for those capable of work. Does that sound liberal to you?
But Im pro choice and for many of the things Dems wanted in healthcare reform like the public option AND conservative ideas like tort reform. That right there makes me a Liberal to people like you so I will go with it. Doesn't bother me at all. Im not scared of a label.

Anyway, didn't mean to get off subject. So your premise is Obama isn't sticking to his message from the campaign. Imagine that! A politician doesn't keep his word. Didn't Bush run as a conservative? We see how well that worked out.

I don't know why you are complaining anyway. Much of the Obama administration foreign policy involving terrorism and the middle east is in line with the status quo laid out by Bush/Cheney.
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Be afraid, be very afraid.
I think doc111 is spot on. With that said, I don't think anyone should start playing the blame game even though the right wing is on stand by to do just that if ever given the chance. I didn't blame Bush for 9/11. I don't blame Obama for the underpants bomber. I am afraid to say it will happen though. Maybe not tomorrow, next month, or next year. Maybe not even under Obamas administration. But there will always be islamic extremists like those who attacked us on 9/11 hell bent on doing it again. Even in what may seem to be the most decisive one sided fight, if your opponent never gives up and keeps swinging, chances are good they will eventually land a punch.
 

jeff f

New Member
I Even in what may seem to be the most decisive one sided fight, if your opponent never gives up and keeps swinging, chances are good they will eventually land a punch.
not if he is dead or shackled in a prison.

good thing we dont let organized crime fighting up to libs. they would throw their hands in the air and give up. not an option!
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
not if he is dead or shackled in a prison.

good thing we dont let organized crime fighting up to libs. they would throw their hands in the air and give up. not an option!
What does that even mean? What I said was a simple allegory. The US could invade every country in the world with a mission to kill every muslim it finds on the spot. You will never ever get all of them. There will always be islamic extremists out to get us. The odds are in their favor that they will get a sucker punch of sorts in on us again one day.
 

abe23

Active Member
It's really pathetic how people want to give up all their freedoms for a little bit of false security. You guys are cowards....if this were the 1950s you would probably have supported the mccarthy hearings.

As for Obama, afpak policy is actually one of the issues that he's doing exactly what he said he would. Kinda funny that out of all the issues he's vulnerable on for not living up to his word (think transparency in the healthcare negotiations for example), you pick the one he's actually been very consistent on...
 

jeff f

New Member
It's really pathetic how people want to give up all their freedoms for a little bit of false security. You guys are cowards....if this were the 1950s you would probably have supported the mccarthy hearings.

As for Obama, afpak policy is actually one of the issues that he's doing exactly what he said he would. Kinda funny that out of all the issues he's vulnerable on for not living up to his word (think transparency in the healthcare negotiations for example), you pick the one he's actually been very consistent on...
so explain to me how launhing rockets into jihadists offices and training camps is affecting my freedom negatively? cant wait for this one.

when i get to the airport to take a flight and have to wait four hours so they can check joan rivers underwear for skidmarks, i can show you how that affects my freedom.

blowing up fuckpots in yemen...not so much.

you act as if these guys are difficult to find. they arent. it takes some work but they arent that hard to find. so killem were they stand. nobody, especially not me, want to invade another country. these fucking scumbags arent worth american blood but they add a special value to a lazer guided missile to the tailpipe of their nissan pathfinder.

stop being a bunch of pussies and fight these fuckers....mean and nasty till they are either not bombing us or dead.
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
you act as if these guys are difficult to find. they arent. it takes some work but they arent that hard to find. so killem were they stand. nobody, especially not me, want to invade another country. these fucking scumbags arent worth american blood but they add a special value to a lazer guided missile to the tailpipe of their nissan pathfinder.

stop being a bunch of pussies and fight these fuckers....mean and nasty till they are either not bombing us or dead.
Who do you even address this to? Because last I checked even under Dick "fight these fuckers" Cheney we still never got to Osama Bin Laden.
 

jeff f

New Member
Who do you even address this to? Because last I checked even under Dick "fight these fuckers" Cheney we still never got to Osama Bin Laden.
no unfortunately we havent. and he is very good at hiding as are some of his main guys. but the camps arent hard to find. we just choose not to bomb them in countries because we show respect for their soveriegnty. i think that should change.
 

abe23

Active Member
so explain to me how launhing rockets into jihadists offices and training camps is affecting my freedom negatively? cant wait for this one.

when i get to the airport to take a flight and have to wait four hours so they can check joan rivers underwear for skidmarks, i can show you how that affects my freedom.

blowing up fuckpots in yemen...not so much.

you act as if these guys are difficult to find. they arent. it takes some work but they arent that hard to find. so killem were they stand. nobody, especially not me, want to invade another country. these fucking scumbags arent worth american blood but they add a special value to a lazer guided missile to the tailpipe of their nissan pathfinder.

stop being a bunch of pussies and fight these fuckers....mean and nasty till they are either not bombing us or dead.
Yea, bombing and invading arab countries has worked out really well for us recently. And if you're so eager to go fight it out, you should go for it. I'm not talking about enlisting; just go grab your arsenal of freedom weapons and go duke it out with the other medieval morons over there but just leave me the fuck out of it. We need to think carefully about where we want to apply violence...

And the comment about your freedom was more about your idiotic suggestion to strip search all 'muslims' on airplanes but you're still a fool if you think bombs and bullets and can do the job alone. Show me one violent insurgency or political movement that was defeated by force alone. Extremist islam feeds on grievances that are very real to get recruits and support. And before you even start with your knee-jerk bs, i'll just go ahead and say it: no, i don't think we are to blame for al-quaeda. It's just that some of our decisions have made the problem worse. Like invading iraq, for instance.

If you knew anything about yemen, you would understand that the US shooting missles at pathfinders there would do far more harm than good, but I guess ignorance isn't really a problem when you have a big mouth, lots of opinion and the analytical skills of a can of tuna. Perhaps you should spend more time reading/thinking about these things and a little bit less time pontificating.
 

jeff f

New Member
Show me one violent insurgency or political movement that was defeated by force alone. .

.
aaahhh, mr smarty pants, how about japan, ummm, germany, aahhhhhh ever heard of russia.....duuhhhh...the confederacy....duh, ummm duhh how about the spanish, duh , how about the british, you know...you may have heard of "dont shoot till ya see the whites of their eyes" duuhhh thats were that sayin came from. italy, ummm the romans duhh i could name about a hundred other wars but i am getting cramps in my fingers...

NEXT
 

jeff f

New Member
If you knew anything about yemen, you would understand that the US shooting missles at pathfinders there would do far more harm than good, but I guess ignorance isn't really a problem when you have a big mouth, lots of opinion and the analytical skills of a can of tuna. Perhaps you should spend more time reading/thinking about these things and a little bit less time pontificating.

oh, and i forgot to address this beauty. hey smart guy, read a fucking paper. the yemen govt begged your boy obama to fire those missiles. you dont think he thought of that himself do ya. only took him a week to respond to their requests. he was probably stalling to give the badguys a head start.

go clean your room simpleton.
 

abe23

Active Member
aaahhh, mr smarty pants, how about japan, ummm, germany, aahhhhhh ever heard of russia.....duuhhhh...the confederacy....duh, ummm duhh how about the spanish, duh , how about the british, you know...you may have heard of "dont shoot till ya see the whites of their eyes" duuhhh thats were that sayin came from. italy, ummm the romans duhh i could name about a hundred other wars but i am getting cramps in my fingers...

NEXT
Ok, dummy....I guess I counted on you reading my question correctly, which is obviously too much for you. Those are all interstate conflicts, including the civil war in many ways. I was talking about domestic insurgencies and political movements. Again, name one domestic insurgency that was dealt with once and for all through violence alone. I didn't ask you to name any war, but well done, jeff. You are obviously a very intelligent guy....

And your second post kindof confirms my point. We can do things to prop up the yemeni government and help it fight off the houthis and do what needs to be done against al quaeda. When you're stupid about these things and don't think about the consequences of military action, you end up having a lot of problems. Go ask george dubya.

And stop with the insults, jeff. You're not very funny or clever at them to begin with and it just makes you look like a fool, especially next to your weaksauce attempts at logic. Clean my room, really? Is that the best we can do, jeff? What the fuck is that even supposed to mean? Try again, jeffrey...
 

Bucket head

Well-Known Member
Ok, dummy....I guess I counted on you reading my question correctly, which is obviously too much for you. Those are all interstate conflicts, including the civil war in many ways. I was talking about domestic insurgencies and political movements. Again, name one domestic insurgency that was dealt with once and for all through violence alone. I didn't ask you to name any war, but well done, jeff. You are obviously a very intelligent guy....

And your second post kindof confirms my point. We can do things to prop up the yemeni government and help it fight off the houthis and do what needs to be done against al quaeda. When you're stupid about these things and don't think about the consequences of military action, you end up having a lot of problems. Go ask george dubya.

And stop with the insults, jeff. You're not very funny or clever at them to begin with and it just makes you look like a fool, especially next to your weaksauce attempts at logic. Clean my room, really? Is that the best we can do, jeff? What the fuck is that even supposed to mean? Try again, jeffrey...



couldn't have said it any better myself...bongsmilie
 

figtree

Active Member
More security means less freedom. do we want to give up our freedoms to be more secure? Why dont we just build a big wall with bars in the windows to keep us safe.......... oh wait sounds kinda like a jail doesnt it?
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Ok, dummy....I guess I counted on you reading my question correctly, which is obviously too much for you. Those are all interstate conflicts, including the civil war in many ways. I was talking about domestic insurgencies and political movements. Again, name one domestic insurgency that was dealt with once and for all through violence alone. I didn't ask you to name any war, but well done, jeff. You are obviously a very intelligent guy....

And your second post kindof confirms my point. We can do things to prop up the yemeni government and help it fight off the houthis and do what needs to be done against al quaeda. When you're stupid about these things and don't think about the consequences of military action, you end up having a lot of problems. Go ask george dubya.

And stop with the insults, jeff. You're not very funny or clever at them to begin with and it just makes you look like a fool, especially next to your weaksauce attempts at logic. Clean my room, really? Is that the best we can do, jeff? What the fuck is that even supposed to mean? Try again, jeffrey...
Well, I would say Iraq is an example of triumph over an insurgency but the fighters in Iraq were not insurgents - most were foreign fighters crossing the border from Iran and elsewhere and the rest were jihadists, not patriots defending their country. If one is a big fan of the Liberal main stream media it is easy to overlook the fact that we actually won in Iraq because like all news they don't like it is swept under the rug. But I digress.

The fact is, Muslim extremists are engaged in a jihad to destroy "the great Satan" (us) and take over the world. They are prepared to fight for thousands of years if necessary and their entire culture is built around this one purpose.

The best plan we have at the moment is to choose strategic locations in which to sow the seeds of Democracy and hope the domino effect works as well as it has in the past (you should Google that term - you would learn something). In fact, it is primarily the spread of Western ways (sex) that is enraging them. (read Bernard Lewis)

The war we fought in Iraq was a success. Though much was done wrong, we learned a great many things from it - hopefully. One of our biggest problems is that we have idiotic rules of engagement that really hamper our troops while the enemy violates every law in the Geneva Convention.

Now, your boy Obama wants to hamstring us even further by giving enemy combatants trials and by bringing legal charges against the very men who are protecting us.

The Liberal media is one of the most dangerous enemies we have. They act as an intelligence source and a propaganda arm for the jihadists. They sensationalized the hazing at Ahbu-Grab making more of it than it was, they leaked critical intelligence information regarding our techniques that should have remained secret to the public and our enemies and they failed to report anything positive that was happening in Iraq, the list goes on and on.

In the end, the jihadists are at war with us and this will remain so until we destroy them or they destroy us. We do not have the ability to unilaterally decide to "end the war." All we have the power to do is to stop fighting back and that isn't a good strategy.

So, we have two choices, we either remain on the offense and take the fight to them, or we try to play defense and get picked apart a bit at a time. I vote for offense.

But getting back to the actual point of the thread; what happened to the wide spread Liberal belief that there is no war on terror? What happened to talking to our enemies and finding common ground? All you Liberals were so sure of your opinions just a few months ago - what happened?
 

yellowrain53

Well-Known Member
Well, I would say Iraq is an example of triumph over an insurgency but the fighters in Iraq were not insurgents - most were foreign fighters crossing the border from Iran and elsewhere and the rest were jihadists, not patriots defending their country. If one is a big fan of the Liberal main stream media it is easy to overlook the fact that we actually won in Iraq because like all news they don't like it is swept under the rug. But I digress.

The fact is, Muslim extremists are engaged in a jihad to destroy "the great Satan" (us) and take over the world. They are prepared to fight for thousands of years if necessary and their entire culture is built around this one purpose.

The best plan we have at the moment is to choose strategic locations in which to sow the seeds of Democracy and hope the domino effect works as well as it has in the past (you should Google that term - you would learn something). In fact, it is primarily the spread of Western ways (sex) that is enraging them. (read Bernard Lewis)

The war we fought in Iraq was a success. Though much was done wrong, we learned a great many things from it - hopefully. One of our biggest problems is that we have idiotic rules of engagement that really hamper our troops while the enemy violates every law in the Geneva Convention.

Now, your boy Obama wants to hamstring us even further by giving enemy combatants trials and by bringing legal charges against the very men who are protecting us.

The Liberal media is one of the most dangerous enemies we have. They act as an intelligence source and a propaganda arm for the jihadists. They sensationalized the hazing at Ahbu-Grab making more of it than it was, they leaked critical intelligence information regarding our techniques that should have remained secret to the public and our enemies and they failed to report anything positive that was happening in Iraq, the list goes on and on.

In the end, the jihadists are at war with us and this will remain so until we destroy them or they destroy us. We do not have the ability to unilaterally decide to "end the war." All we have the power to do is to stop fighting back and that isn't a good strategy.

So, we have two choices, we either remain on the offense and take the fight to them, or we try to play defense and get picked apart a bit at a time. I vote for offense.

But getting back to the actual point of the thread; what happened to the wide spread Liberal belief that there is no war on terror? What happened to talking to our enemies and finding common ground? All you Liberals were so sure of your opinions just a few months ago - what happened?


i wouldnt call the war in iraq "a victory". LMAO. last time i was there we werent "winning". we're not "taking the fight to them" were "raping other countries for their resources". if a militant islamic person wants to come to the states to blow some shit up......you really think a war in iraq will stop them? or afghanistan for that matter. we're trying to squash violence with more violence......and unfortunately the enemy isnt the only one on the dangerous end of the gun.......ie WE ARE MAKING MORE ENEMIES EVERY DAY WE ARE OVER THERE. WTF are we still doing in the desert???????? were securing US financial interests......if you think theres more to it i suggest you do more research. a couple decades ago it was "communism"......but we've already milked that one for all its worth."terrorism".....its just the new "ism". fire away fellas!:fire:
 
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