Liberals Hate Success

[hanimmal]

Because we are the wealthiest country in the world. So there is very little reason to leave to find a job that will allow you not to have to live in a hut.

No matter how you slice it america is a special country. We have a huge very fertile land that allows us to always have enough clean water, every natural resource, mild climate to allow for a lot of farming, really there is not anything that we don't have better than anywhere else as a whole.

There is virtually zero chance (other than some crazy shift in the earths axis to change the position of us to the sun) that Mexico will ever have the natural resources to dominate the global economy like we do.

That and the fact that we did kick them off their own land in my mind makes it reasonable for them to come here.

Think about how weird it is that we are one of the very few places in the world that the natural indiginous people are being called 'immigrants'.

 

[jrh72582]

Great post Han. These illegals were the rightful owner at one time. What say ye to that? We were the ones who stole it and now clamor about them entering what was theirs. How sick is this? I'm not urging anyone to feel guilty. I'm merely asking you all to recognize the complexity of the situation.

 

[natrone23]

Great post Han. These illegals were the rightful owner at one time. What say ye to that? We were the ones who stole it and now clamor about them entering what was theirs. How sick is this? I'm not urging anyone to feel guilty. I'm merely asking you all to recognize the complexity of the situation.

We never stole any land from the Aztecs sorry, That was the the spanish.


Mexicans are a mixture between the white spainards and natives.

And many many many "spainards' err I mean "Mexicans" never mixed with the natives.

 

[natrone23]

Think about how weird it is that we are one of the very few places in the world that the natural indiginous people are being called 'immigrants'.

None of these "immigrants" have any connection with North America, they are the decendents of the Mayan and Aztecs., or just white guys who are "mexican".

 

[PadawanBater]

Great post Han. These illegals were the rightful owner at one time. What say ye to that? We were the ones who stole it and now clamor about them entering what was theirs. How sick is this? I'm not urging anyone to feel guilty. I'm merely asking you all to recognize the complexity of the situation.

Kinda like the Israel/Palestine conflict...

 

[hanimmal]

How about southern california and texas?

There was a war that took that for the states. And even still, what do you think are the big differences between what we call mexicans today and the native americans that we slaughtered that were in the nevada-westcoast to the south are?

I am talking true native americans that crossed the land bridge. Nationalism for me is somewhat silly. I should not get any more pissed about someone coming from another country to be my neighbor than I should about someone coming from another state. They are both my competition, and they both can benefit me.

The whole idea of a global fence is rediculous. We should appreciate getting the people from other countries that want to work hard and build a better life for themsleves. Because it is that work ethic that has made us a great and thriving country, not alienation and fear.

 

[natrone23]

How about southern california and texas?

There was a war that took that for the states. .

Oh you mean the "white spainard" Santa Anna an his "white spainard" army. Those wern't Indians we were fighting.

 

[PadawanBater]

The whole idea of a global fence is rediculous. We should appreciate getting the people from other countries that want to work hard and build a better life for themsleves. Because it is that work ethic that has made us a great and thriving country, not alienation and fear.

Great quote han.

 

[RickWhite]

Slippery slope. Try again. My contention holds because you failed to address it - stop dropping arguments.

The middle class (as in working, you moron) tend to blame the poor more than rich, when the rich have designed a system to screw the middle class in the ass. Between politicians, corporations, and lobbyists, a system has arisen that fucks everyone but the rich. But yet the middle will blame the poor, assuming they can't get ahead because of illegals and social security, when the real reason is wholly otherwise. Now respond.

Why do you insist on naming logical fallacies that have nothing to do with the discussion?

A slippery slope is committed when one argues that a small step in a given direction will necessarily end with the most extreme case being true.

Example:

If a cops were to give more warnings instead of tickets the roads would be like a no holds barred race tracks.

Or:

If you legalize weed, the next thing you know we will all be hooked on heroin.


Where is the slippery slope in what I said?

And your contention does not hold in any way shape or form. I did address it. You said the middle class blame the poor for their problems when they ought to blame the rich. I said you are wrong and they ought to take responsibility for their own problems instead of blaming them on an one else. Now, how am I wrong? Demonstrate how the rich screw over the middle class and how they are responsible for their problems. The burden of proof lies on you, not me.

 

[RickWhite]

How about southern california and texas?

There was a war that took that for the states. And even still, what do you think are the big differences between what we call mexicans today and the native americans that we slaughtered that were in the nevada-westcoast to the south are?

I am talking true native americans that crossed the land bridge. Nationalism for me is somewhat silly. I should not get any more pissed about someone coming from another country to be my neighbor than I should about someone coming from another state. They are both my competition, and they both can benefit me.

The whole idea of a global fence is rediculous. We should appreciate getting the people from other countries that want to work hard and build a better life for themsleves. Because it is that work ethic that has made us a great and thriving country, not alienation and fear.

I don't know detailed history of who took what from whom regarding our border states. but, I will say that every square inch of land on Earth was taken from someone else by force at one point or another.

And if we think drawing borders is ridiculous, don't we also have to call the notion of collective ownership based on ethnicity ridiculous. How was California stolen from some Mexican when said Mexican is only 20? Half the people here don't believe people should inherit significant wealth and yet they think people naturally inherit countries - how does that make sense?

The only way to deal with boarder questions in a practical manner is to consider who has what established on said land along with history.

Suppose a given wooded lot was purchased by two brothers in 1810 for $3 and the two had a falling out. One brother wound up losing his share in an illegal poker game (or what ever) and his great, great, great grandson builds a two million dollar house on the land. Now the other guy's great, great, great grandson sues to get "his" half of the land back. Clearly, the trial isn't going to focus only on the legitimacy of the poker game and who is the rightful owner of the $3 parcel that is now worth over 2 million based on one man's improvements.

Can you see why the court would have to consider how the land has been improved and who has possession of the land?

The same is true for countries. The fact that Arizona was part of Mexico many years ago has little bearing on to whom it belongs now. It is silly and impractical to ignore who is currently in possession and what has been built on the land.

Now, more specifically to Mexico. Mexico has vast resources. The problem is that they have an oppressive and corrupt government. If we were to give California and Arizona back to Mexico, their poverty would simply cover more land. I have no intention on trying to figure out solutions for Mexico, but us stealing their land or denying them natural resources isn't their problem.

I do not blame the illegals for trying to make a living. And as a guy who owns a business in Detroit where unemployment is in the stratosphere, I can tell you that a great many people in the inner city do not want jobs at all. In fact, even when things are good here, many don't want jobs and will not do work of any kind. If a business owner was foolish enough to let these guys in the door they would be lucky not to be shot dead or at least cleaned out. Often they come in wanting a job and are really just looking to see if the place is worth breaking into. But that is Detroit.

Anyway, while I don't blame the illegals. We do have to be cognizant of the fact that we live in different economies and unless we want to lower our standard of living to match theirs, we will never be able to compete for jobs.

In the end, there is no way around the fact that employing illegals for $5 per hour for a $15 per hour job is exploitative and it does deny Americans who want to compete for that job and equal opportunity when his bills are 10 times that of the Mexican.

While I am a Capitalist, I do believe that every man should be paid a fair wage - one that a person can survive on. So, I do support some form of minimum wage. The trick is to make sure the minimum wage does not have unforeseen negative ramifications on the market. But, unlike important things like the housing market, I think we can tinker and experiment with minimum wage laws without getting ourselves into too much trouble. maybe one wage for teens who flip burgers and another for anyone over 21. but then again, I rarely see anyone working for minimum wage so...

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Mexico held the Southwest for all of fifteen years before the Texas Revolution in 1836.

In 1845, the Republic of Texas agreed to be annexed by the U.S. The Mexican Army responded by invading Texas. This is what started the Mexican-American War.

The American Army beat the Mexicans badly time after time on two separate fronts. We occupied Mexico City. Mexico ceded its territory in the Southwest to entice us to go home. And we paid them for the territory, too.

Was the war one of conquest in an age of Conquest? Yes.

What started out as a relatively minor border dispute a few miles North of the Rio Grande evolved into a struggle to determine which country would dominate the North American continent. Mexico had too much territory to hold so they lost it.

Now they want it back. You don't have to believe me. Check out the National Council of La Raza (The Race). Many Mexicans make no secret that they believe the Southwest was stolen from them and they want it back. And apparently we intend to comply with their wishes because our government refuses to adhere to the Constitution and control our borders.

And Natrone is quite correct in his assertion that many Mexican grievances should be taken up with Spain. It raped and pillaged Mexico, shipped countless tons of treasure and loot back to Spain. But Spain is no longer a world power.

 

[CrackerJax]

Because we are the wealthiest country in the world. So there is very little reason to leave to find a job that will allow you not to have to live in a hut.

No matter how you slice it america is a special country. We have a huge very fertile land that allows us to always have enough clean water, every natural resource, mild climate to allow for a lot of farming, really there is not anything that we don't have better than anywhere else as a whole.

There is virtually zero chance (other than some crazy shift in the earths axis to change the position of us to the sun) that Mexico will ever have the natural resources to dominate the global economy like we do.

That and the fact that we did kick them off their own land in my mind makes it reasonable for them to come here.

Think about how weird it is that we are one of the very few places in the world that the natural indiginous people are being called 'immigrants'.

they're not after wealth, they just want a job ....

 

[jeff f]

Why? Aren't you a capitalist?


Well, I can tell you why, but you never listen. I've asked you to respond to my Maslow argument 4 times now, but you won't. Why?

what about maslows heirarchy of needs? his pyramid isnt static through ones life. you seem to think it is. it varies wildly sometimes daily. its a theory of how you will satisfy your needs. sometimes its applicable sometimes not. i could wax on for hours about it but its boring.

i will say this, you guys on the left are all willing to give your rights/needs to people who are breaking our laws and all against taking rights of people who are actually killing us. that completely turns maslow on its head. basically your arguments are foolish. let me provide an example.

1 you complain when a job gets sent overseas by the person who owns the company. its none of your business where i start or send my business...none. its not yours. the business owner is trying to climb maslow.

2 conversely, when tens of thousands of people are illegally marching across our borders and TAKING jobs that could be done by law abiding citizens, you have no problem.

then you bitch cuz jobs dont pay...you cant have it both ways. in the 1st argument, you are trying to stop someone from moving up maslow. and then in 2 you dont mind pushing yourself down maslow...in other words, nonsensical.

what else do you want to learn?

 

[CrackerJax]

Lib's had their guts kicked out over Vietnam, and haven't found their balls since....

 

[PadawanBater]

Lib's had their guts kicked out over Vietnam, and haven't found their balls since....

You must realize by now how obviously false the left/right dichotomy is.

Yet you still make posts about how the left is always wrong and the right is always right.

I don't get it. I've seen you consciously acknowledge this problem before when you've been called out on it, so what's the deal?

jeff is already too far gone, I don't have hope for that guys progress, but you're smarter than that.

 

[Bucket head]

You must realize by now how obviously false the left/right dichotomy is.

Yet you still make posts about how the left is always wrong and the right is always right.

I don't get it. I've seen you consciously acknowledge this problem before when you've been called out on it, so what's the deal?

jeff is already too far gone, I don't have hope for that guys progress, but you're smarter than that.

I agree, Come on Craker...

 

[CrackerJax]

Well contrary to ur premise, neither party is left/right. It's a mix. When I say liberal, i am not being party specific. I'm being idea specific.

See the difference?

And what I posted is 100% accurate. The liberals blew it in Vietnam, and have never recovered.

The lib's finally have their chance now, and as all can see, it's going straight down the toilet.

 

[hanimmal]

Lib's had their guts kicked out over Vietnam, and haven't found their balls since....

But Libs win with human rights, scientific advancement, and religious issues.

I'll give you all fighting wars. And I will stay a Lib based on the three things I have mentioned.


But to JonnyO I am simply saying this zenophobia that we have as a country is assinine. It may well be able to have the blame put onto spain, because pretty much any country (except us) that has had colonization is a mess to this day. But I mean more the mexicans/native americans are basically the same race, and we did kick the shit out of them and took their land, there is almost zero ways to deny that.

Be that as it is, I would never say we should give anything back, or worry about it more than acknowledging it. If someone wanted their land back bad enough, that is what the free market is for. If I want to go move into the shit house I grew up in (in Detroit over by vernor and dix for you rick). I could simply plop down the $5,000 it is selling for and get it. And if people wanted to get land they can do the same thing, it may cost a lot more, but that is why things have price tags, because it is worth more if more people want it.

Anyway the big thing is, those are jobs that people wish to hire for, but nobody wants to work them for the current prices. And realistically if you think about it, carrying wood, using a hammer, and some of the other basic labor that they are highering for $8 an hour that goes to mexicans is simply what the going rate should be. There is things that you need skilled labor for on the jobsite. But those are not it, they don't take any skill and shouldn't be able to demand $15 an hour.

Because like a lot of you, I do not think unions have a place anymore in america. So overpaying for labor should not have to happen.

Now instead of pissing and moaning about kicking them out, why not try to curb the behavior of the people that are doing the hiring?

I would not mind seeing a tax break for construction jobs that hire people with a actual ss number.
It would be worth it since the tax break would be made up by the people that are working and getting a paycheck. This would lessen the enticement of higher illegals for cash. And the extra benefit of having 100% of that money being spent here in the states would be a boon to business.

The fear of these workers is just sad though. They have shown they want and are very willing to work, so make them citizens and lets improve our country with their help because we can always use hard workers.

 

[hanimmal]

The lib's finally have their chance now, and as all can see, it's going straight down the toilet.

Only to the people that are not following reality.

Things are bad, but so much better than they were in March last year.

 

[CrackerJax]

There is no winning with Lib's. They project national weakness, leading to more violence later. They destroy communities ad hoc with well intentioned social programs, but with disastrous results. They increase the cost of living for every taxpayer and punish individual achievement through taxation and thereby discourage risk taking, crippling innovation.

Liberal policies are a house of cards.