What is the purpose of government ?

[Rob Roy]

In submitting this topic, I am interested in finding out what people believe government's role, if any, should be. Approach it from a historical perspective if you like or from a philosphical. Which methods should government employ? Which boundaries upon the rights of individuals should be observed? How does government benefit people or harm them?

 

[Illegal Smile]

Nope. Too big of a question requiring too long an answer. I only work that hard if I'm being paid for it.

 

[SmokeyMcChokey]

lol Illegal.
I feel like the govt is there to force taxes on citizens as a legal form of extortion. PAY UNCLE SCAM OR GO STRAIGHT TO BAIL. No passing go and no collecting 200 dollars in food stamps.

 

[smppro]

Whether we like it or not the governments purpose is to control the masses because we cant control ourselves, its human nature.

 

[robert 14617]

gov is set up to govn by the will of the people ours governs by bending us into submission

 

[hanimmal]

First to protect us against other governments that wish to take us over.

Second to help direct money to systems that will increase the wealth and stability of the nation.

And third to help protect citizens from the actions of other citizens.

I think that pretty much covers it from my point of view.

1. I think our government tends to overexert force here. We should not be fighting all these wars to protect other nations, unless it is a way to help us out. Fighting other governments (like Iraq) should be what it is capped at. Fighting bands of other government citizens should not be the case.

2. Things like roads, internet, scientific development and a lot of other government programs that have spurred on innovation have made us as powerful as we are today. Also by not allowing things like the banks to fail means most of peoples money was not destroyed during what would otherwise have been busts. We have busts, but they are generally not as devastating today, unlike before when they government took the classical stance of allowing things to just spiral out of control and fully collapse before it eventually came back around.

A recession can be caused by a lot of different things, but it in essence comes down to people and businesses stopping their spending. To keep the system rolling this is when the government should and does step in to make up for that loss in demand, and increase it's spending (like the stimulus package) to stop the bleeding.

But what it forgets to do (except Clinton) is to build a surplus by raising taxes a bit (to curb too much fast growth) and cut government spending, when things are running well, so that they can switch to lower taxes and more spending when it is needed.

And too many govern with emotion, not knowing the consequences of their actions if they do things like rent control.

3. Stopping crime has moved into a realm that they feel they need to protect us from ourselves, and that is too far. I have no problem if they are arresting people that are about to commit a crime against another citizen, but to decide that a woman cannot have an abortion, that you cannot do drugs, banning books in school, arresting musicians for lude acts on stage, banning sexual acts, banning gay people from getting married, on and on is infringing.

 

[Illegal Smile]

One of the purposes of good government should be to protect the people from the government. Our founding fathers took great pains to do that, and it has been chipped away at ever since.

 

[ilkhan]

Are we talking Federal State or Local?
In a nation of 300 million people there needs to be clear seperation of powers.

The Federal Governments Job is to:
A: prevent violence (Maintain a military)
B: Prevent theft, fraud and to protect rights. (A court system)
C: enforce contracts and mediate disputes. (This to ultimatly is to prevent violence)

States Jobs can be more varied:
A: Prevent Violence (State prisons and troopers)
B: Maintain basic infrastructure (either by running it themselves or overseeing its private maintance.)
C: Enforce Contracts and Mediate Disputes (This prevents Violence)
D: Other (The people could vote to give states other jobs so long as those jobs do not infringe on the rights of man)

Local:
A: Prevent Violence (Local PD, Shariff the highest elected law enforcement officer in the country)
B: Basic Infrastructure (Dumps, water, sewer, schools and roads either private or public)

Thats it:
But the main thing they are to do is PREVENT VIOLENCE.
Wether it is finding violent people or
mediating a disput between a drug traficer and a drug dealer over the level of comet in his Meth.
It all comes down to violence prevention.
That seems to be the whole reason we came up with the idea for government.
Unfortunatly it always mutates and evolves into tyranny given time.

 

[Illegal Smile]

Are we talking Federal State or Local?
In a nation of 300 million people there needs to be clear seperation of powers.

The Federal Governments Job is to:
A: prevent violence (Maintain a military)
B: Prevent theft, fraud and to protect rights. (A court system)
C: enforce contracts and mediate disputes. (This to ultimatly is to prevent violence)

States Jobs can be more varied:
A: Prevent Violence (State prisons and troopers)
B: Maintain basic infrastructure (either by running it themselves or overseeing its private maintance.)
C: Enforce Contracts and Mediate Disputes (This prevents Violence)
D: Other (The people could vote to give states other jobs so long as those jobs do not infringe on the rights of man)

Local:
A: Prevent Violence (Local PD, Shariff the highest elected law enforcement officer in the country)
B: Basic Infrastructure (Dumps, water, sewer, schools and roads either private or public)

Thats it:
But the main thing they are to do is PREVENT VIOLENCE.
Wether it is finding violent people or
mediating a disput between a drug traficer and a drug dealer over the level of comet in his Meth.
It all comes down to violence prevention.
That seems to be the whole reason we came up with the idea for government.
Unfortunatly it always mutates and evolves into tyranny given time.

Even I as a conservative must ask: Who keeps people from starving in the streets? Who builds interstate highways? I could go on and on. We need a strong central government. Alexander Hamilton made that point in the federalist papers. There are many things the states can't do severally. The problem is the federal government in liberal hands wants to do away with states entirely and do all manner of things they should have no part of.

Besides, it is evident no-one in this administration is thinking about the proper roles of government. The entire country is now part of the city of Chicago.

 

[hanimmal]

So everyone left of alex jones (ie everyone in government) is a liberal now eh?

 

[nuera59]

just look at the last months newspapers in the uk, shit I'm even paying for these fuckers porn.

 

[NoDrama]

Who builds interstate highways?

The government builds NOTHING, it produces NOTHING, it only SPENDS your money to have someone else do the work. Construction workers build the roads, not government employees. The government only pays others to do things, and in getting that money to pay for it, it siphons off a large percentage to pay for its own operation as the middle man. States could certainly work together to create interstates, we don't NEED the feds to do this.

Imo Government should only protect its citizens from other nations. Government should also enforce lawful contracts, and thirdly and most importantly Government must secure the rights and freedoms of individual citizens.

As Thomas Paine put it "Rights are not gifts from one man to another, nor from one class of men to another… It is impossible to discover any origin of rights otherwise than in the origin of man; it consequently follows that rights appertain to man in right of his existence, and must therefore be equal to every man.

Also Frederick Bastiat in his book The Law stated "Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place."

In the federalist papers (Which every US citizen should read) James Madison said "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."

 

[ChChoda]

The government builds NOTHING, it produces NOTHING, it only SPENDS your money to have someone else do the work. Construction workers build the roads, not government employees. The government only pays others to do things, and in getting that money to pay for it, it siphons off a large percentage to pay for its own operation as the middle man. States could certainly work together to create interstates, we don't NEED the feds to do this.

Imo Government should only protect its citizens from other nations. Government should also enforce lawful contracts, and thirdly and most importantly Government must secure the rights and freedoms of individual citizens.

As Thomas Paine put it "Rights are not gifts from one man to another, nor from one class of men to another… It is impossible to discover any origin of rights otherwise than in the origin of man; it consequently follows that rights appertain to man in right of his existence, and must therefore be equal to every man.

Also Frederick Bastiat in his book The Law stated "Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place."

In the federalist papers (Which every US citizen should read) James Madison said "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."

Hear hear!

 

[Mindmelted]

The Government is only good for FUCKING us the people.

 

[ViRedd]

The government builds NOTHING, it produces NOTHING, it only SPENDS your money to have someone else do the work. Construction workers build the roads, not government employees. The government only pays others to do things, and in getting that money to pay for it, it siphons off a large percentage to pay for its own operation as the middle man. States could certainly work together to create interstates, we don't NEED the feds to do this.

Imo Government should only protect its citizens from other nations. Government should also enforce lawful contracts, and thirdly and most importantly Government must secure the rights and freedoms of individual citizens.

As Thomas Paine put it "Rights are not gifts from one man to another, nor from one class of men to another… It is impossible to discover any origin of rights otherwise than in the origin of man; it consequently follows that rights appertain to man in right of his existence, and must therefore be equal to every man.

Also Frederick Bastiat in his book The Law stated "Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place."

In the federalist papers (Which every US citizen should read) James Madison said "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."

^^^ Now that is a post of an informed reader. Nice job, NoDrama ... and thank you.

If anyone is interested in Bastiate's "The Law," check this out on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sheldon+richman+the+law+bastiate&search_type=&aq=f

Or here's the text in it's entirty:

http://fee.org/library/books/the-law-by-frederic-bastiat-free-download/

 

[ruderalis88]

just look at the last months newspapers in the uk, shit I'm even paying for these fuckers porn.

hahaha yeah and their duck-houses, moat cleanings, toilet seats for fatty prescott and that bitch jacqui smith's whole life practically. saucy minx.



to answer the OP, "what the government is for" in my understanding is to make and enforce those rules deemed appropriate/necessary for the well being of the people governed.

do they acheive this? all too often the answer is no

do the citizens really need the government? anybody's guess.

definitely a good thread question though, some interesting reading

 

[Man o' the green]

Even I as a conservative must ask: Who keeps people from starving in the streets? Who builds interstate highways? I could go on and on. We need a strong central government

I hate to be harsh, but it may be that government's role should not be to keep people from starving in the streets. It is humanitarian, but is it an obligation to every citizen ? I believe in life, liberty and property as freedoms, not as entitlements.
I also don't believe we need a strong federal government as much as competition between government, and a return to more states rights. Same principle as capitalism, make them compete and prove laws on their own and see what works. Allow as much power at the local level as possible and prevent a federal monopoly or regulation at the top. The 10th amendment was a really good idea, just not stuck to very well.

 

[NoDrama]

I hate to be harsh, but it may be that government's role should not be to keep people from starving in the streets. It is humanitarian, but is it an obligation to every citizen ? I believe in life, liberty and property as freedoms, not as entitlements.
I also don't believe we need a strong federal government as much as competition between government, and a return to more states rights. Same principle as capitalism, make them compete and prove laws on their own and see what works. Allow as much power at the local level as possible and prevent a federal monopoly or regulation at the top. The 10th amendment was a really good idea, just not stuck to very well.

I really like that statement, its going to be my new sig line. its great +rep.

The 10Th amendment basically had its head cut off with the 14th.

 

[ilkhan]

BTW illegal Smile Alexander Hamilton was a big piece of Shit.
Central Banker scum really suprised he wasn't killed in a duel sooner.
I wish Aaron Burr had killed his ass 30 years before and saved us all the damn trouble.
I'm more of a Jefferson/Madison man they knew about freedom and the dangers fiat money.

States can build and maintain roads they do it all the time.
Humanitarian work is the job of charitable orginizations.
Or maybe the states and local governments it is not a right.
It is certainly not the Job of the federal government to regulate homelessness.
When careing for the poor becomes the job of an all powerful government
all you end up with is more poor.

As for disasters States can deal with those as well and have throughout history.
The Texas coast for example was positivly leveled in the early 20th century thousands died.
Did Texas come crying to the Feds?
Hell no they pulled up their boot straps and got to work.
Even in Haiti now I'm seeing the same spirit.

Charity is great but its not charity
if your forced through taxation to give,
it loses its meaning.
I still hold that Governments job is ultimatly to defend against violence.
Good Government should never initiate,
what it is sworn to defend against.

 

[Rob Roy]

Thanks to those that have responded so far in this thread. I appreciate your thoughts and encourage others to read them.

My .02 ....

The purpose of government ? To ensure equal protection of individuals inalienable rights from others, including government itself.

Not to PROVIDE rights, to protect them. The very nature of inalienable rights indicates they do not come from other people. The very nature of people indicates they will inevitably try to usurp your rights, often using or becoming the very government that was supposed to prevent this from happening. Some will even do this with the best of intentions, some obviously with selfish intentions.

As evidence of this, I simply say look around. Has government exited the original box it was supposed to occupy? Irrefutably, yes.

The flaw I find in many people's perspectives of "how government should be" is that they are confident that they know what is best for individuals and in order to achieve this outcome, they are willing to cede more authority from the individual to the collective. Often they are willing to cede YOUR authority anyway. The obvious question that raises is - How can one individual or group of individuals decide something for another and still maintain that individual rights have been protected? It is the question that I have NEVER gotten a satisfactory answer from anybody on, rationalizations yes, answers, no.

They can even codify that by passing laws, yet a statutory law that conflicts with a natural law will often be troublesome.
This creation of many extraneous manmade laws has also created a multitude of victimless crimes.

In the United States there are more laws than any country, with more coming every day. There are also more people in prison percentage wise than any other country. I think there is a correlation.

A few of your answers fccused on what you might LIKE government to provide. I've often thought if our statutory laws more closely followed natural laws the original intentions of government would be more consistently met. The protection of life, liberty and property can't be as complicated as it has become, can it?