Too Much Education?

[RickWhite]

This statistic was taken from an article saying that the US is falling behind certain other Countries in education.

See the full article here:

http://www.phonydiploma.com/what-percent-of-people-have-a-college-degree.aspx

According to the U.S. Census Bureau and the 2002 American Community Survey, 52.7 percent of Americans have some college education, but only 27.2 percent have actually obtained a degree.

The 27.2% actually sounds about right. The 52.7% should make one take pause. I say this not because I am against education but because I am against the notion of lower standards.

Think about it. The vast majority of people are of average intelligence. And as much as I hate to offend anyone, average means they are dumb as a stump. If you look at a bell curve, the middle part is huge and the ends very small. I would venture to say that the percentage of people who can properly be called intelligent are far fewer than the 27.2% that have degrees. I would say the top 20% are somewhat intelligent, with the top 10% being intelligent, the top 5% being very intelligent and the top 2% being genius.

Anyway, the point is, what is the point of having universities if they don't separate the truly brilliant from the average. I guess there is a need to equip people with job skills but it seems too many people are being put into the same jar using too broad of a net. It just seems that everyone thinks they are a genius these days and I think this dilutes what it really means to be intelligent.

IDK, just some random thoughts.

 

[NoDrama]

College is a Big waste for so many people. I can't count how many folks went to College for some special purpose and got a great degree, then can't find a job and end up toiling away doing something totally different than what they were educated in. Experience will trump the majority of schooling any day IMO. My College experience was a waste too, but at least the Military Paid for it so Im not carrying 20 years of student loans around. I did learn things in school, but nothing I couldn't find out for myself. I have learned far more on my own though and found that my professors did not always know the facts and sometimes were just plain wrong.

 

[IAm5toned]

and how many degrees of the 27.2% are from useless majors?

prolly 60%

 

[stumps]

Hey watch that stump stuff. lol I never did higher ed. But the wife has 2.75 under her belt. We hang with 5 other couples and a few singles. out of the bunch only 3 have no degree. Also the higher the degree the more stupid they are in day to day life.

 

[Leothwyn]

Are the people who have an education, but are not highly intelligent, better off with what they've learned?
Personally, I feel that I'm better off with the knowledge that I gained in college and university classes. I didn't get my degree or pursue a related career, but I don't regret getting some education. I think that just about any education is better than nothing. Even when the knowledge gained seems fairly useless in real life (me studying marine biology, but not becoming a marine biologist), at the very least it's good exercise for the brain - having to memorize tons of stuff, wrapping your brain around big, complex ideas, etc.. And sometimes something that doesn't seem especially relevant overall can give a person new perspective on unrelated things.
Anyway, the way I see it, education is about growth, not separating the geniuses from the average people. Sure, everyone who gets a degree isn't necessarily intelligent, but they're better off in some ways IMO.

 

[Osoheil]

Anyway, the point is, what is the point of having universities if they don't separate the truly brilliant from the average. I guess there is a need to equip people with job skills but it seems too many people are being put into the same jar using too broad of a net. It just seems that everyone thinks they are a genius these days and I think this dilutes what it really means to be intelligent.

It is impossible to design a metric that can separate someone "truly brilliant" and someone "average". This is because what we think of ourselves and others when it comes to intelligence is subjective. There is no objective way to measure intelligence. An IQ test will give a quotient that may or may not have anything to do with intelligence because what intelligence is is something that each individual decides.


My grandfather is by what most people hold as standards unintelligent. He does not know math past basic addition and subtraction, nor does he have a good understanding of basic principles of science. But if you talk to the man you will find a wide breadth of knowledge that many people do not have, skills and abilities that are no longer carried on and will largely be lost when he dies. I believe there are many people like this. I feel badly for anyone that could not see past his lack of "intelligence" because they would never get a peek into his world and his mind, which I feel is phenomenal on an equivalent level to any scientist or intellectual.

Somewhat related;

The idea of an elitist society full of people who "know" things disturbs me. To me, there is more to intelligence than academic know-how, and there is more to life than "knowing" things.

 

[RickWhite]

It is impossible to design a metric that can separate someone "truly brilliant" and someone "average". This is because what we think of ourselves and others when it comes to intelligence is subjective. There is no objective way to measure intelligence. An IQ test will give a quotient that may or may not have anything to do with intelligence because what intelligence is is something that each individual decides.


My grandfather is by what most people hold as standards unintelligent. He does not know math past basic addition and subtraction, nor does he have a good understanding of basic principles of science. But if you talk to the man you will find a wide breadth of knowledge that many people do not have, skills and abilities that are no longer carried on and will largely be lost when he dies. I believe there are many people like this. I feel badly for anyone that could not see past his lack of "intelligence" because they would never get a peek into his world and his mind, which I feel is phenomenal on an equivalent level to any scientist or intellectual.

Somewhat related;

The idea of an elitist society full of people who "know" things disturbs me. To me, there is more to intelligence than academic know-how, and there is more to life than "knowing" things.

Maybe there is hope for you yet. Your grandfather lacked knowledge, not necessarily intelligence - there is a huge difference. And what you observed from your grandfather was likely wisdom which is even more rare than knowledge or intelligence. It's almost extinct in our Universities today.

The simple sentence, " a boy needs a father," seen as obvious years ago, is a rare Pearl of wisdom today as the concept is no longer in vogue with the intellectual elite.

Intelligence can be measured by IQ tests despite some claims to the contrary. These false claims were made to cover up discrepancies in IQ scores between Blacks and other races. It all stems from a controversy surrounding a study and a subsequent book called "the Bell Curve" published in the 60s.

The true data however, shows that IQ tests are highly accurate predictors of intelligence.

One of the big problems today is that standardized testing has essentially been banned due to the aforementioned studies and everyone is encouraged to attend college as if everyone is equal. I guess that is why people used to be humble about their opinions and now everyone thinks their opinions are golden.

 

[Leothwyn]

Intelligence can be measured by IQ tests despite some claims to the contrary. These false claims were made to cover up discrepancies in IQ scores between Blacks and other races.

I don't think it's as simple as just some conspiracy. I think part of peoples skepticism of IQ tests is because of ambiguity in people's minds between wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence.

I'm not saying that your point is invalid, just that there are reasons to be skeptical of IQ tests. They can give a basic measurement of intelligence, but there are different types of intelligence, and it's a difficult thing to measure accurately.

Anyway, I'm in agreement with you that we don't need to pretend that everyone's equal and encourage everyone to go to college. Learning a trade through experience or a trade school is a better option for many people. Some people are better with their hands (and, maybe not as intelligent as others). That shouldn't be something shameful, it's just how it is.

 

[figtree]

Is this seriously a thread against education? there you go, proofs in the pudding!

LMAO, thats right kids, dont go to school (per rick) it wont do you any good! Come on kids listen to those intelligent conservatives, their showing us right now how smart they are, they are only trying to help you fail! they are trying to help the country fall on its face! TOO MUCH EDUCATION! Your a freakin moron if you think theres such a thing.

You have got to be kidding me!
your joking right? just tryin to get me going arent you? come on!

 

[Man o' the green]

....

Anyway, the point is, what is the point of having universities if they don't separate the truly brilliant from the average. I guess there is a need to equip people with job skills but it seems too many people are being put into the same jar using too broad of a net. It just seems that everyone thinks they are a genius these days and I think this dilutes what it really means to be intelligent.

IDK, just some random thoughts.

I think for me that is the main question - what is the point of a university education ? If they have multiple, competing goals, what is the consequence of that ?
So, is it :
1) sorting out the smart from the dumb
2) expanding your knowledge to make you personally more satisfied
3) preparing you for a job
4) equip you with the tools to be a contributing member of society
5) learning how to do research and the scientific method
6) preparing the next generation of educators
7) improving your communication skills
( feel free to add more )

I would argue that they don't do any of these things well, therefore an education means very little to me.
As far as I'm concerned, its just a item on my resume that may get me more money ultimately. The pain to get it, and the disappointment with the educational system, the disgust at the professors, makes me regret expending so much time and money.
Perhaps there is a growing realization that the educational system is flawed, making a degree less relevant to your employment ( in most cases ), and that contributes to the number of people not completing their degree. Those who have a high regard for the college system make me suspicious. It's almost as if there is a desire to preserve the class distinctions that education makes, to keep the "educated" peoples' decisions, judgement and morals more relevant ( or just more "right" ) than the masses.
In response to elitism : You may know more stuff than me, but I am the only person who knows what's right for me.

 

[fitch303]

It's simple, not everyone can have white collar jobs, there is still a huge portion of the population that will work blue collar jobs which do not necessarily require degree but will get them anyway and be strapped down with debt. We need to put more money into trade schools and junior colleges, everyone CAN go to college but that doesn't mean they SHOULD.

 

[medicineman]

I seriously doubt there will ever be enough jobs to go around again. With the emergence of third world markets and manufacturing for less, the US has lost it's hold on employment opportunities. Maybe we should be training our young to learn to like Beans and rice and how to live on twenty dollars a day, Burger flippin wages.

 

[ViRedd]

A poster child for someone with to much education is our esteemed president, Barak Obama. How anyone can rise to the level of a masters degree and be completey ignorant of basic economics and economic history is beyond me. Yes, he talks a good game, but he is destroying the country.