Social Justice is Irrelevant

upnorth2505

New Member
Social justice is dead. In fact social justice =socialism. Right? Why should we as a society (or any of us as individuals) be concerned about fairness, the plight of individuals, poverty, unemployment, exploitation, or any other issues related to personhood?

The fact of the matter is that anyone who is poor obviously deserves to be so. Every single poor person is reckless, breeds out of control, is uneducated, ignorant, and it is their fault. They are undeserving of any real attention by society.

In fact, does it really make sense to care about anyone but ourselves? The more we can marginalize certain elements of society, the less we have to deal with them, and the better off we will be.

I honestly do not care about anyone else. Why should I? I’ve worked hard, they have not. So, to all you folks that think so-called “equality” and justice are important, I say fuck you. I have made my money, I enjoy my life, and that is all that is important.
:cry::cry::cry::cry:
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Social justice is dead. In fact social justice =socialism. Right? Why should we as a society (or any of us as individuals) be concerned about fairness, the plight of individuals, poverty, unemployment, exploitation, or any other issues related to personhood?

The fact of the matter is that anyone who is poor obviously deserves to be so. Every single poor person is reckless, breeds out of control, is uneducated, ignorant, and it is their fault. They are undeserving of any real attention by society.

In fact, does it really make sense to care about anyone but ourselves? The more we can marginalize certain elements of society, the less we have to deal with them, and the better off we will be.

I honestly do not care about anyone else. Why should I? I’ve worked hard, they have not. So, to all you folks that think so-called “equality” and justice are important, I say fuck you. I have made my money, I enjoy my life, and that is all that is important.
:cry::cry::cry::cry:

How would you solve the problems that you present? What do you propose?
 

Man o' the green

Active Member
Social justice is dead. In fact social justice =socialism. Right? Why should we as a society (or any of us as individuals) be concerned about fairness, the plight of individuals, poverty, unemployment, exploitation, or any other issues related to personhood?
This raises a very good point about the individual's role in a socialist society. Given that the government provides social justice, why should any one of the people in the system be concerned about another ? Doesn't the government already have that covered, why should I worry about them ? If they have problems, it must be their failure to work with the government to get their fair share.

It is humane as a society to be concerned about fairness of opportunity. With socialism, it attempts to make results fair. Compassion towards man is an important human need and must be freely given.
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
Social justice is dead. In fact social justice =socialism. Right? Why should we as a society (or any of us as individuals) be concerned about fairness, the plight of individuals, poverty, unemployment, exploitation, or any other issues related to personhood?
social justice is not dead, but is the moral duty of the individual. in a free society, the lengths that the individual will go to to live up to that duty is a matter of choice. in a totalitarian society, choice is co-opted by authority. whether that authority is a lone dictator or the mob, when choice is absent - freedom is absent. the inherent compact we have all made to exist within our society demands that we not infringe upon the liberties of others, it does not insist that we support them.
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
I think the poor are being punished for sins in a previous life. OK, I don't really :). Here's what I do think - we have a societal aversion to facing the reality that many citizens simply aren't well equipped for today's world. We like to think that anyone below average is just disadvantaged somehow.

But the fact is that half of us have IQs under 100. It used to be in an agrarian society that there were plenty of places for such people. That is increasingly less so. here is where I will part company with many of my conservative brethren. I think it is possible to create a place for everyone and it is a legitimate role of government to make that happen. My beef is that after decades of taxing and spending on social programs, the government still fails.

I don't even claim to have an answer, but I think it is possible to create ways for almost everyone to be productive and self-supporting. For those remaining few who cannot, we are wealthy enough as a society to take care of them.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Social justice is dead. In fact social justice =socialism. Right? Why should we as a society (or any of us as individuals) be concerned about fairness, the plight of individuals, poverty, unemployment, exploitation, or any other issues related to personhood?

The fact of the matter is that anyone who is poor obviously deserves to be so. Every single poor person is reckless, breeds out of control, is uneducated, ignorant, and it is their fault. They are undeserving of any real attention by society.

In fact, does it really make sense to care about anyone but ourselves? The more we can marginalize certain elements of society, the less we have to deal with them, and the better off we will be.

I honestly do not care about anyone else. Why should I? I’ve worked hard, they have not. So, to all you folks that think so-called “equality” and justice are important, I say fuck you. I have made my money, I enjoy my life, and that is all that is important.
:cry::cry::cry::cry:
First thing first - you are describing economic equality which is far different from social justice. If we use the term "justice" be it social or any other, we necessarily imply freedom because without freedom (the most basic tenant of justice)there can be no justice.

Economic equality is the polar opposite of freedom and can only exist in proportion to the amount of freedom we give up.

Few are so extreme that they would argue that there are not people deserving of help and that people should not all pony up to an extent. After all, if we are entitled to receive the benefits from birth it wouldn't make sense to be able to opt out after the fact thereby gaining the system.

Where people disagree is in how much people should pay for this insurance and to what extent others should be able to rely on it.

These questions can and should be debated, and there are many nuances and prospectives worthy of consideration. Clearly the subject is too big for me to attempt to tackle here. And, my opinions like most are just untested ideas that may or may not be sound. And I have a number of them including forming farming communes like those in Israel, etc.

But, to oversimplify the matter and put it in the context of a vitriolic false dichotomy where one side is good and the other evil is not at all constructive, nor is it honest.
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
equal opportunity for those with unequal attributes will still produce unequal outcomes.
 

buttery420

Active Member
Oh :( I read this earlier and felt good because I thought you were being sarcastic. No you're quite definitely an asshole.
 

upnorth2505

New Member
Oh :( I read this earlier and felt good because I thought you were being sarcastic. No you're quite definitely an asshole.
For those who do not know where I am coming from with my post, I'll explain.

Most of the conservatives on hear know me as a critic of the far right. Those folks recognize the post as a rhetorical device: I present some of the most extreem views of the right, show how selfish they are, and let the reader determine that they would not want to live in such a society.

I guess some folks did not understand my true intent with the post. Opps. :peace::weed:
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
I present some of the most extreme views of the right, show how selfish they are, and let the reader determine that they would not want to live in such a society.
isn't it time you grew up and realized that those stereotypical right wing fanatics you childishly insist on depicting are so few and far between that you have probably never met one in your life. i've only met a couple and i have been known to socialize with sociopaths.
 

buttery420

Active Member
isn't it time you grew up and realized that those stereotypical right wing fanatics you childishly insist on depicting are so few and far between that you have probably never met one in your life. i've only met a couple and i have been known to socialize with sociopaths.
Where do you live? You don't have to answer that if you don't want but yes there are a lot of these people around. Two groups in my area :(
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
I think the fact that Upnorth decided to conveniently overlook all the intelligent responses to his post speaks volumes about him.

The original post was childish as was the follow up. Typical Liberal vitriol.
 

qptyqpty

Active Member
Social justice is dead. In fact social justice =socialism. Right? Why should we as a society (or any of us as individuals) be concerned about fairness, the plight of individuals, poverty, unemployment, exploitation, or any other issues related to personhood?

The fact of the matter is that anyone who is poor obviously deserves to be so. Every single poor person is reckless, breeds out of control, is uneducated, ignorant, and it is their fault. They are undeserving of any real attention by society.

In fact, does it really make sense to care about anyone but ourselves? The more we can marginalize certain elements of society, the less we have to deal with them, and the better off we will be.

I honestly do not care about anyone else. Why should I? I’ve worked hard, they have not. So, to all you folks that think so-called “equality” and justice are important, I say fuck you. I have made my money, I enjoy my life, and that is all that is important.
:cry::cry::cry::cry:

You sir, seem to be in distress. It may seem that the world around you is crumbling, but more than ever are people NEEDING more examples of care, thoughtfulness, and assistance. I used to think this way, but I never really understood what was going on inside other people's head.

I used to curse people to horrible deaths and diseases because the fuckers couldnt put shit back where they found it while I was working retail. I always put shit back where I found it because I know that I hate and curse those types of people. However, I thought about it, and perhaps people that do that are thinking
"hell, its one little item, and its their job that they get paid to do, and hell they would put the shit right here too if it was them..."

So can you see the problem? They are paying forward negative energy, and that negative energy will ripple out, touching more and more people. The guy said fuck it im putting this shit right here. So then im upset because I had to waste 4 hours of my day simply picking shit up after people lay it around my area like a preschool. I become reluctant to help anyone since every day I get more and more pissed at dumbass customers, so I avoid talking to customers at all costs, so I can get the job done (since boss is breathing down my neck). This causes both the management and the customers to become frustrated, each of them bringing that negative energy onto the road going home. On the road, they are like

"fuck it, its only a second, I need to call so and so."

And get on the phone, distracted, weaving in and out of traffic, or driving slow as balls. Then I get out of work late because unthoughtful fucks came in AT CLOSE, and I emanate a seething rage as I drive, causing every single driver on the road to be agitated with my driving fast and erratically. I come up to the cell phone driver and become stuck between some semi trucks and the phone talker. I ride her ass because she is blatantly driving around like a zombie in a coma, before honking, pissing her off too. Cut off the trucks, pissing them off, and then arrive home to dishes in the sink, arguments with the wife because of HER day, and a bed with a poky spring.... the shit goes on and on and on and on


Thats why you should care. Because no one is going to do SHIT about the situation but yourself. I know I cannot count on ANYONE but myself to spread the knowledge I have, to get people motivated to take back their liberty and lives. So I care. I do my part for anyone I see, that is willing to take help. I talk to everyone around me. I want to hear their stories, their troubles, their achievements and accompishments. I want to know more people. Criminals, Military folks, Foreigners, Rich people, Poor people, all of them. I like to hear what they have to say.

Youll find that there are only a small majority of people who truly dont give a fuck, but the majority of America

FEELS JUST LIKE YOU

That is awesome and horrible at the same time. Awesome, because isnt it nice to know that as far as your beliefs go about how the economy and politics are doing... even if you dont really follow anything, the majority of folks are very concerned about the future, just like you. Horrible, because an overwhelming majority of people feel the same way as you do, about not helping anyone because they want to be where they are, etc etc.


There are some truths, but sadly, you are mistaken in your assumptions. Most poor people DO NOT want to be poor. They absolutely want to strive for something better. However, society tends to keep poor people poor, on several levels. First, the wealthy can easily afford food, amenities, a house, a car or two, several kids, etc, and still be able to save, invest, etc. However, low-income earners who are trying desperately to stay afloat have to decide whether they are able to pay the bills, or buy food for the kids to eat. Perhaps they live in an area with already high unemployment and they have to hang onto the job they have working as a roofer and just cant seem to make enough to gain savings. Or perhaps they finally have a 401k they had been working on for years, and the financial barons rob them of 60% of it.

I recommend you seek a different perspective. Do some soul searching. Talk to people. Humans are meant to be social beings. However, our corrupt government has allowed a small number of wealthy men to control everyone else, and this problem has spread the world over. In america, the powers that be understand very well that a country divided cannot stand together.


FUCKIN DUH

Not every poor person is a meth brewing wife beater, just as not all rich people are Dom-sipping assholes. To engage in such thought would be stereotyping. Now, im poor, and I have one child due to bad judgment. But ill be damned if I am reckless, uneducated, ignorant, or that I breed out of control. I despise ignorance more than anything else, and I would have to say belligerently keeping to this narrow set of views would be ignorant. Now, im not calling you ignorant, please dont mistake. However, if you try to view the world though multiple lenses, and yet STILL feel that way, I would then have to call you ignorant, in truth not in insult. But, I know you are not ignorant because I do follow your posts and you know that. ;) So take a look around and try NOT to see the forest for the trees. =)

With that all said, I still do not believe in Socialism or Hand outs unless it is bona fide charity. Redistribution of wealth is WRONG and doesnt work. Welfare needs to be shut down completely. There is a way to end it, in a civilize manner, and stimulate job growth and innovation. Less government regulation, smaller federal government, make the impoverished UNCOMFORTABLE in their poverty. As in, NO WELFARE. If you give people free food all they are going to do is eat it. If they have to stand in a soup line with REAL homeless people and others who REALLY cannot help it, that will motivate themselves to seek something better. Churches and community services are more than able to assist with local volunteer work distributing charity and food to those in need. The thing is, when people have more money to spend, and more freedom, they are more likely to give someone assistance WHEN THAT ASSISTANCE DOESNT NEGATIVELY IMPACT THEIR LIVELIHOOD. i.e. If I make $100/mo and I need $90 to live,eat,etc, I only have $10 to spare for anything else. If I have $1000/mo and still spend $90 for necessities, I still have $990 to spend freely. In what situation am I more likely to save money/invest/donate?

Under the influence of poverty or wealth, workmen and their work are equally liable to degenerate.
Wealth becomes the parent of luxury and indolence, while poverty breeds meanness and viciousness; both out of discontent"

Plato - The Republic
So, I stand with whomever will stand with me. However I can do my part to win the war we wage against our corporate oppressors, I will be there.

Then again, im stubborn. If someone doesnt want to hear me out, It is not my place to try and convince them. Fuck em let em die, just less chaff to deal with later. The ones that will hear, will listen, and to those folks I continue to preach. (yes, both religious and scientific smatterings appear in my monologues and discussions)

Oh, and im 27. So that carries a lot of weight when I am as young and involved as I am.

I am also real fucking uncomfortable in my poverty, and used to be under the influence of meanness and viciousness borne of discontent in the life I was forced into. (like I had any choice?) However, I have decided to use ALL of that negative energy for the force of positive influence and change. That all has to start from myself and ripple outward... thus paying it forward. Im no pacifist either, I will throw down quick on someone being disrespectful in person. There is never a reason to disrespect someone unless they purposefully disrespected you. Even if an accident, its better to stop and say whoa, what did I do to you? Maybe the simple confrontation will afford you an answer, and enables you to clear up a simple misunderstanding, rather than harboring the anger causing road rage later and your drinking and beating your wife.

I also do not believe in being Politically Correct. Fuck that. if I need to tell someone how it is, im going to. I naturally do not use derogatory statements unless they are that kind of element. I do not skirt around truth and I dont care to call someone homeless or retarded or handicapped or disabled or whatever the fuck bullshit they are coming up with to oppress my freedom of speech. A retarded person is retarded. Whatever LABEL you call them will still be a LABEL, you moron, and thus have a negative connotation. If you care that damn much, YOU call them something else. However unfortunate, I have multiple mentally challenged family members, and not one of them gives a fuck about being called retarded, unless it is in a DISRESPECTFUL way. Damn. If you have a problem with someone for any reason, confront them in a civilized manner and work things out, but blind hate is counter-productive. If labels offend you, or if anything anyone else does offends you, then FUCK YOU. YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

I want to emphasize this:

GROW THE FUCK UP. YOU ARE NOT A CHILD ANYMORE. FUCK YOUR HURT FEELINGS, THEY ARE JUST CRACKLES OF ELECTRICITY BETWEEN TWO DENDRITES IN YOUR BRAIN. NO ONE LIKES THIEVES, TATTLETALES, WHINERS, COMPLAINERS, AND BUSYBODIES. IF SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING THAT BOTHERS YOU, APPROACH THEM. IF IT IS NOT HURTING YOU OR ANYONE ELSE IN ANY WAY, GO THE FUCK AWAY! DAMNIT! AGAIN, YOU ARE A PART OF THE PROBLEM. THE ONLY THING YOU SHOULD BE OFFENDED BY IS (LIST NOT ALL INCLUSIVE) SOMETHING THAT VIOLATES A CLEAR, MORALLY SUBJECTIVE LAW, SUCH AS MURDER, STEALING, SOMEONE FUCKING YOUR WIFE (FALLS UNDER DISRESPECT TOO), OR BLATANT DISRESPECT.
 
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