? about flushing. Please +rep

burninjay

Active Member
Maybe you should try that. You won't be able to tell a difference except your flushed plant will have less yield.

I'm not disagreeing with you Fly. In fact, I lean more toward a 'less is more' attitude when it comes to nutrients. I try to to feed them only what they will use, so if you tried that test with my grows, you'd probably get what you expect. This guy might run his soil super hot or maybe he does hydro at 1800ppm, maybe he actually does see a diff with a 2 week flush.

What I wonder is why are people feeding there plants to a degree that they feel it takes 2 weeks of plain water to wash out all the 'buildup'. Seems to me that feeding a balanced mix at the rate the plant consumes it would be more logical overall.
 

IgrowUgrow

Well-Known Member
I'm not disagreeing with you Fly. In fact, I lean more toward a 'less is more' attitude when it comes to nutrients. I try to to feed them only what they will use, so if you tried that test with my grows, you'd probably get what you expect. This guy might run his soil super hot or maybe he does hydro at 1800ppm, maybe he actually does see a diff with a 2 week flush.

What I wonder is why are people feeding there plants to a degree that they feel it takes 2 weeks of plain water to wash out all the 'buildup'. Seems to me that feeding a balanced mix at the rate the plant consumes it would be more logical overall.

I am disagreeing, my uncle grew 6 femmed WW and he started 1 of them earlier than the others, so it finished earlier. He didnt flush the early finisher, but he cured it for 3 weeks hoping this would help. Well it didnt help at all the WW tasted like shit, but his other 5 cured just 1 week tasted 1000x better, so explain this.
 

burninjay

Active Member
Well it didnt help at all the WW tasted like shit, but his other 5 cured just 1 week tasted 1000x better, so explain this.
Well, it would be kind of ignorant of me to try to make any assumptions about your uncle's grow when I know nothing about it other than the strain, wouldn't it?

That was my point. To say that somebody absolutely needs a 2 week flush or that a flush is absolutely bogus without knowing much about the grow is just as ignorant. On some of my grows, I flush more than others based on the condition of the plants close to harvest.

Say I'm working with a new strain and I've completely undershot it's nutrient requirements during flower. Am I to flush it a full 2 weeks even if it's showing signs of deficiency? Of course not. On the other hand, to suggest that a flush is not needed when a plant is clearly showing signs of toxicity would be equally poor advice. All I'm saying is that there's degrees of everything.

My outdoor plants grow on top of a mountain in the regular old ground. I don't feed or water or flush. I just let nature do it's thing up there. The bud tastes tremendously good, explain that.
 

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
I asked when to flush so that when the 2-week flush is over I will have 50% white hairs, and 50% orange hairs. Not 60-70% that is more of a couch lock high I want a equil couchlock/head high, but thanks anyway.


I think you are confusing "hairs" for trichs. At 60-70% orange hairs(pistils), the weed isn't even finished yet, and still has a couple weeks to go. Anyway....If you flush when the trichs just start turning amber,(like 5%) then follow them until they are at 50% amber, just harvest then. It's doesn't have to be exactly 2 weeks after flushing, to harvest. As long as it's somewhere in the vicinity, they'll be a-okay.
 

FuZZyBUDz

Well-Known Member
I think you are confusing "hairs" for trichs. At 60-70% orange hairs(pistils), the weed isn't even finished yet, and still has a couple weeks to go. Anyway....If you flush when the trichs just start turning amber,(like 5%) then follow them until they are at 50% amber, just harvest then. It's doesn't have to be exactly 2 weeks after flushing, to harvest. As long as it's somewhere in the vicinity, they'll be a-okay.

:clap:

couldnt have said it better
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing.
 

IgrowUgrow

Well-Known Member
I think you are confusing "hairs" for trichs. At 60-70% orange hairs(pistils), the weed isn't even finished yet, and still has a couple weeks to go. Anyway....If you flush when the trichs just start turning amber,(like 5%) then follow them until they are at 50% amber, just harvest then. It's doesn't have to be exactly 2 weeks after flushing, to harvest. As long as it's somewhere in the vicinity, they'll be a-okay.
IF you would have read the whole thread you would notice that I already said I mixed my hairs up with trichomes, and I asked the same question but without the word hairs. So read the thread next time please.
 

IgrowUgrow

Well-Known Member
It was a joke. I don't give a fuck about a rep bro! Good luck with your flushing.
Oh my bad I thought you were serious, well I guess you made me fall for you joke so, +rep. LMFAO nah really, that wass my joke your still not getting rep.
 

IgrowUgrow

Well-Known Member
lol everyone thought I was a asshole didnt they well I was just kidding I gave him rep. I am just being stupid because I am FUCKING HIGHER THAN A GIRRAFFES ASS ON MT. EVEREST
 

IgrowUgrow

Well-Known Member
Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing.
Where did you find this in a Cracker Jack Box. I dont care what you googled up, I know I have had flush weed along with non flushed weed and the flushed weed always taste and smokes better. Non flushed cannabis taste like Mid-Grade shwagg. I flush my bud and it taste great, also I did not say a two week flush is required I just prefer it on larger plants in larger pots. I will just go by what I know of the plant like sadolite said.
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Where did you find this in a Cracker Jack Box. I dont care what you googled up, I know I have had flush weed along with non flushed weed and the flushed weed always taste and smokes better. Non flushed cannabis taste like Mid-Grade shwagg. I flush my bud and it taste great, also I did not say a two week flush is required I just prefer it on larger plants in larger pots. I will just go by what I know of the plant like sadolite said.

Says the guy who doesnt know the difference between hairs and trichomes.:lol:
 

Bulldog73

Active Member
30x or 60x scope will work great. Sounds like you are looking for a later harvest as the higher level of CBD produced (more produced the later you harvest). So CBD will help the psychoactive THC lock you into that body couchlock high. So you are going to want to harvest on the later side. That being said, if you are growing one of my personal favorites in Sour D, you are going to have a bit of a wait. Sour d flowering time is 80 days, so you will probably want to harvest somewhere after 90 days to increase CBD. So when you harvest, you want tons of amber trichomes and they should be bent over sideways. I have never tried to harvest Sour D late personally so I am not speaking from experience there, just my opinion.... Hope it helps..
 

IgrowUgrow

Well-Known Member
This thread is beginning to become quite entertaining. :razz:


:lol:
Yea tell me about it, people arguing over stupid shit, that was such a simple question I asked in the beggining, I cant believe this thread has excelled to this point. If I could end this thread I would have done it as soon as cracker jack box guy started saying flushing is a myth.
 
Top