Selling Weed is Illegal!

RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Here in MI, MMJ is new and like many states, the law restricts how much you can produce and posses. Already, there has been a torrent of morons thinking they can and will get away with getting rich by selling weed under the guise of legal MMJ.

Wake up! This is not going to work. In fact, all you will do is fuck it up for everyone else and land you in prison.

In MI, and elsewhere you can be a caregiver for up to 5 people and can cultivate up to 12 plants per person for a total of 60 plants - 72 if you are a patient. You can also posses 2.5oz per person and for your services you can charge "reasonable compensation."

This law is an affirmative defense to a cultivation charge which means you have the burden of proving you are "clearly within the law" if prosecuted.

First, you do NOT want to be in the position of proving your innocence in Court. And don't think that your local Federal prosecutor necessarily cares what Obama or Eric Holder thinks. Federal law allows them to prosecute and if they want to they will.

Now, the only way to successfully pull off an MMJ defense is to make a Judge or jury believe you are only providing MMJ to your 5 people. If you think you can buy a house or rent warehouse space and grow 60 monstrous plants and be OK, you have another thing coming.

You see, you have to show that you are receiving "reasonable compensation" from no more than 5 people for your services. If you are renting warehouse space it is going to be very difficult to demonstrate how the money adds up. Anyone with half a brain is going to know that a guy with 60 palm trees in a warehouse is diverting product elsewhere. The same is true for a house nobody lives in.

Do the math. Say your 5 use an oz per month and pay $300 per oz. this is already stretching the notion of "reasonable compensation." That is $1,500 per month. So, if you rent out a house for $1,000 per month and invest in a giant grow operation it doesn't add up.

Also, openly advertising is a bad idea. Who buys an expensive add if they don't intend on turning profit?

If you live in a state that restricts MMJ production, stay small and stay within the law. Is everyone going to supply a few friends - probably, and I doubt the cops care. but if you think you are going to be slick and hide a commercial operation under the guise of MMJ laws you should think twice. Prosecutors and Judges aren't idiots and juries aren't going to be fooled easily. Don't make the mistake of thinking the law is black and white.

If you screw around and try to find ways of beating the system, the system is going to wind up beating you.
 
Fungus Gnat

Fungus Gnat

Well-Known Member
Market for weed already flooded in Michigan? lol

If you don't like these new growers why not do something smart and open a hydroponics store? The people that get rich during gold rushes are the shopkeepers.

Also the more people that grow the more it will be seen as normal. The more a law is flagrantly broken the sooner people realize how ridiculous it's.

People are going to believe something is neferious if only felons and gangs do it. People are less likely to see it as bad if their friends and family are doing it.
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
what you said is right.

except your notion of 'reasonable compensation'. reasonable compensation doesn't mean enough to cover 75% of your costs. under 'reasonable compensation' you can technically put 40% of total costs as profit, just as government contractors charge.

so yeah, is it possible to make a living out of growing bud?? of course, the problem is that you have to be very vigilant with timing, total bud you have on you, and costs.

and while it is not legal to make a profit out of illegal activity, in medical states (not under federal statute) it should not be too difficult for a person to become a full time caregiver, covering all of your costs, and turning a slight profit without turning heads.

reasonable compensation gives a lot of room for interpretation. and reasonable compensation includes the costs incurred.

a good defense to mount if you're charged with selling is to say "it's not selling, it's my compensation as stated in the contract. as his caregiver he agrees to cover all the costs of growing per gram, plus a 25% comission for my work."
 
cooknsmoke

cooknsmoke

Active Member
yes, indeed mr. redivider... well, stated sir!

rickwhite: i also agree with you as well... but you got to look at it this way brother... without some of these growers (professional or amatuer), in it to make money or not, there is some benefits to this madness... without their mistakes and expensive lawyers, law makers and local politicans would never feel the pressure to change their perceptions about mmp in your state... just like all of the states before Michigan, everybody legal or illegal had to fight for their rights and it took many years to become what they have became now and even made it easier for other mmp states to follow such as your state...ever thought of that????
 
Iron, Lion, Zion

Iron, Lion, Zion

Active Member
redivider said:
reasonable compensation gives a lot of room for interpretation. and reasonable compensation includes the costs incurred.
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This is the issue in question though. As you said, reasonable compensation leaves room for interpretation... if the judge/prosecutor interprets your compensation as being excessive, even though it might not be, you are fucked.
 
R

redivider

Well-Known Member
Iron said:
This is the issue in question though. As you said, reasonable compensation leaves room for interpretation... if the judge/prosecutor interprets your compensation as being excessive, even though it might not be, you are fucked.
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it really depends on the local DA if he wants to send your case to federal court.

and rick was dead on with the 72 monsters in a warehouse. This would be a red flag immediately.

because if you agree as a caregiver that you're patients cover the costs of growing plus commission. The way accounting works it would allocate the costs to the stuff you are LEGALLY selling, making the weed too expensive, driving away customers.

Now, if you're selling more than the legally alotted amount, then the costs would be spread over the whole inventory on hand, bringing costs down to acceptable levels.

So if you have a warehouse with 72 monsters, selling a little tiny bit for your patients and destroying the rest, you're weed should be REALLY REALLY expensive, to cover the costs. But if you have a warehouse with 72 monsters and sell all that shit in there, the weed would be sold at cheaper prices, raising a red flag over the legality of the grow......

it's basic production management, if you over-produce, you incur in higher costs, lowering you're profits. if you produce exactly, or slightly above what you sell, you're gonna get more profits.

bigger isn't always better.............
 
KaleoXxX

KaleoXxX

Well-Known Member
how much does "reasonable compensation" usually mean when buying medical marijuana from your caregiver?
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
All these are good points.

The key term here is "affirmative defense." What many don't realize is that this shifts the burden of proof from the State to the defendant.

In this case, ambiguous laws subject to interpretation work against you. As stated, the judge and or jury will determine what reasonable compensation is. Also, it behooves everyone to look at it from the point of view of the prosecutor and what his argument will be.

So far in MI, hydro shops are popping up everywhere and there are people are jumping all over this new industry. I've even seen people running adds to lease warehouse space for growing. In fact, I even thought of that myself before researching the matter and concluding it isn't Kosher. I suspect the cops and prosecutors are busy creating a war plan to go after these guys.

In the end, the important thing to understand is that one does not want to rely on an affirmative defense. And if you do, you don't want the size of your grow operation to contradict your defense. If you have a 10'X10' in the basement you are probably good - but if you have a two car garage that looks like Jurassic Park with 12,000W of light you are going to have a real hard time explaining how this is only to provide for your 5 people even if you are within numbers.

What I am seeing, though understandable, gives me the impression that it may not be very long before Johnny law enforcement is saying "see, we told you so."

Hopefully, they will reform the laws a bit to something more concrete. First, the burden of proof should be on the State. Next, they ought to just set a max grow room size instead of this stupid plant number crap.

Oh, and BTW, get this. Prosecutors go by plant number capability, not actual number. So, if you have a 60 plant clone machine with 12 plants in it, they will charge that as 60 plants - I spoke to someone they charged this way. It might be changing due to the new laws but before legal MMJ that was the standard. Even people just caught with growing equipment and seeds have been charged with intent to manufacture. So if you have hydro spots for 100 plants, that is how they will charge it.

If this sounds like a load of crap I agree. But, that just goes to show how the shit goes down in real life.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=prop+215&catAbbreviation=sss&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://denver.craigslist.org/search/?areaID=13&subAreaID=&query=mmj&catAbbreviation=sss


someone didn't get the memo. bongsmilie
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Amazing. This must be California or other states with more open laws. I've heard guys in Cali have to grow outside because they can't recover their electric costs because the stuff is so cheap.

MI is a fucking police state compared to others. Carrying a pocket knife or a club in your car can get you a CCW charge here. Even a guy with a pistol permit can't carry a knife or even a small club in his car. It is insane.
 
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