US Healthcare - Nuclear Option

[Man o' the green]

"The procedural move known as reconciliation, called the "nuclear option" because it would shut down a GOP filibuster, has been discussed by Democrats since last year as a last resort to pass health care reform legislation. But choosing that option means Democrats would have to strip the legislation of items not related to the budget because of Senate rules.
Democrats hold a commanding majority in the House, and in the Senate, their 60 votes are enough to avoid a filibuster. But the balance could change if Republican Scott Brown beats Democrat Martha Coakley on Tuesday to win the late Ted Kennedy's former Senate seat."

The nuclear option would allow passage with 51 votes instead of the usual 60

I've seen a lot of references to the "Nuclear Option" in terms of the passing of this particular healthcare legislation. What is not clear to me is what would be the reaction of the public to this procedural measure, if it were to come to it. I'm assuming that the republican candidate will win only for this scenario.

What would be your reaction to this if it were used ?
Predictions. What would the public do ?

 

[ViRedd]

^^^ Did you see the Tea Party march on Washington on 9-12? Well, if the nuclear option is used, you ain't seen nuttin' yet.

 

[fitch303]

And this time we'll bring our guns

 

[hanimmal]

I've seen a lot of references to the "Nuclear Option" in terms of the passing of this particular healthcare legislation. What is not clear to me is what would be the reaction of the public to this procedural measure, if it were to come to it. I'm assuming that the republican candidate will win only for this scenario.

Nothing will come of it if they do. Just like nothing came from all the times it was used and dems were flipping out about it before, and just like nothing will happen when the next republican will be in office and uses it again.

 

[ViRedd]

Nothing will come of it if they do. Just like nothing came from all the times it was used and dems were flipping out about it before, and just like nothing will happen when the next republican will be in office and uses it again.

One point you're missing: The lumbering, slumbering beast known as "Middle America" has awakened. Watch the election next Tuesday in Mass. when the Progressives find out that "Ted Kennedy's" Senate seat isn't Teddy's seat ... its the citizen's seat.

 

[hanimmal]

One point you're missing: The lumbering, slumbering beast known as "Middle America" has awakened.

And found just like Rip Van Winkle that it is in a land far different... blah blah blah. Most of 'middle america' could care less about this stuff.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Nothing will come of it if they do. Just like nothing came from all the times it was used and dems were flipping out about it before, and just like nothing will happen when the next republican will be in office and uses it again.

When is the last time the Republicans used that procedural move?

It would be a huge mistake to use such a tactic on such an unpopular measure. Very risky, even more risky than the path they have chosen up to now.

As it stands, when this piece of garbage bill is enacted and actually shits the bed; we will not forget who rammed it through all by themselves.

But if they choose Reconciliation, November will be far uglier than it's shaping up to be currently.

Of course, I could be wrong and the health care bill would do everything the Democrats say it's going to do with no unintended consequences.

Damn, it was hard to compose that last sentence without laughing myself silly.

 

[hanimmal]

Reconciliation bills have included:

• Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980, Pub.L. 96-499 (1980)
• Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, Pub.L. 97-35 (1981)
• Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982, Pub.L. 97-253 (1982)
• Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 (TEFRA), Pub.L. 97-248 (1982)
• Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983, Pub.L. 98-270 (1984)
• Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 (DEFRA), Pub.L. 98-369 (1984)
• Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA), Pub.L. 99-272 (1986)
• Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986, Pub.L. 99-509 (1986)
• Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987, Pub.L. 100-203 (1987)
• Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-239 (1989)
• Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990, Pub.L. 101-508 (1990).
• Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, Pub.L. 103-66 (1990).
• Balanced Budget Act of 1995, H.R. 2491 (vetoed December 6, 1995)
• Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, Pub.L. 104-193 (1996)
• Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-33 (1997)
• Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-34 (1997)
• Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999, H.R. 2488 (vetoed September 23, 1999)
• Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2000, H.R. 4810 (vetoed August 5, 2000)
• Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA), Pub.L. 107-16 (2001)
• Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003, Pub.L. 108-27 (2003)
• Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-171 (2006)
• Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 (TIPRA), Pub.L. 109-222 (2006)
• College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007, Pub.L. 110-84 (2007)

But if they choose Reconciliation, November will be far uglier than it's shaping up to be currently.

I disagree, it will be just like it has been over the last year, and it was last election:

 

[ViRedd]

And found just like Rip Van Winkle that it is in a land far different... blah blah blah. Most of 'middle america' could care less about this stuff.

Perhaps you'll wake up in November of 2010. On second thought, most likely, based upon your above post, it will take you until November of 2012.

Hey, hanimmal ... hear that rumble? Holy shit .... there's a freight train a-comin'!!!!

 

[hanimmal]

Friday hour by hour:

8 p.m.

CBS: "Ghost Whisperer" (8.6 million viewers, 5.3/9 households)
NBC: "Law & Order" (7.3 million, 4.7/
ABC: "Supernanny" (5.4 million, 3.5/6)
FOX: "Bones" rerun (3.9 million, 2.4/4)
The CW: "Smallville" rerun (1.2 million, 0.8/1)

18-49 leader: "Ghost Whisperer" (2.2)

9 p.m.

CBS: "Medium" (9 million, 5.5/9)
NBC: "Dateline" (7.75 million, 5.1/9)
ABC: "Shark Tank" (4.4 million, 2.7/5)
FOX: "Dollhouse" (2.1 million, 1.4/2)
The CW: "Smallville" rerun (1.3 million, 0.8/1)

18-49 leader: "Medium" (2.2)

10 p.m.

CBS: "Numb3rs" (9.5 million, 5.7/10)
NBC: "The Jay Leno Show" (5.44 million, 3.6/6)
ABC: "20/20" (5.41 million, 3.6/6)

18-49 leader: "Numb3rs" (2.2)

Wednesday, January 13
P2+ Total Day
FNC – 1,501,000 viewers
CNN – 942,000 viewers
MSNBC –449,000 viewers
CNBC – 210,000 viewers
HLN –320,000 viewers
25-54 Total Day
FNC –426,000 viewers
CNN –337,000 viewers
MSNBC –129,000 viewers
CNBC – 65,000 viewers
HLN- 137,000 viewers
Tuesday, January 12
P2+ Total Day
FNC – 1,459,000 viewers
CNN – 561,000 viewers
MSNBC –364,000 viewers
CNBC – 204,000 viewers
HLN –327,000 viewers
25-54 Total Day
FNC –402,000 viewers
CNN –166,000 viewers
MSNBC –107,000 viewers
CNBC – 67,000 viewers
HLN- 162,000 viewers

So about the same amount of people watched a smallville re-run than had fox news on all day.

The general population could care less, other than a passing interest and even that is asking a lot.

Hey, hanimmal ... hear that rumble? Holy shit .... there's a freight train a-comin'!!!!

Chooo Chooo!

 

[Johnnyorganic]

I disagree, it will be just like it has been over the last year, and it was last election:

Thanks Han. I was only looking for the last time it was invoked by Republicans, but I appreciate the effort.

It was 2006. The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 [H. Con Res. 95, 12/21/05]

And we all know what happened to Republican control of both houses in 2006. And I'm sure we all agree deficit reduction is a good idea, unlike this monstrosity being negotiated in secret.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/24/budget-reconciliation/

 

[Illegal Smile]

There might be some democrats willing to self-destruct to get this done, but they won't do it en masse and that's what the reconciliation vote would be. I would fully expect enough dems to say they wouldn't vote for it that way that it won't happen. Same with trying to hold up Brown if he wins.

I don't know what they are thinking. Just talking about options like that is hurting them. First they bribe senators for their votes, then they disregard that 57% of the public doesn't want it, then they talk about back door tactics to shove it down the public's throat. We are seeing epic political poor judgement.

 

[ilkhan]

Hmm, healthcare is looking like a sqeaker one way or the other.
Brown still has to win.
However, just the fact that its this close in Mass could teach us something.
Also it appears the Dems are hauling ass to get this done and
the senate could still delay Brown like they did Roland Burris.
They may only need to hold him back for a week.

I don't hold out much hope.
But then all my surprises are pleasent ones.

 

[Illegal Smile]

It would only take one, like Joe Lieberman, to say - I'm not going to participate in that blatant attempt to deny the will of the people.

 

[Man o' the green]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33251.html

Excerpts :

Obama is unveiling a health care bill just days before the six-hour summit that wouldn’t require a single GOP vote, with plans to short-circuit the Senate rules and push it through without Republicans if necessary.

That’s left some Republicans angrily questioning whether the summit is a sham and even Democrats uncertain and noncommittal. But those two efforts seem at odds this week like never before, as Obama makes a final public pitch for bipartisan cooperation — with live TV coverage, no less — at the very moment he seems most prepared to abandon it completely. He’s trying to engage Republicans to make his case for reform but is laying the groundwork to go around them if they won’t sign on.

The White House's announcement of Obama's legislation Monday would serve as the template for a final bill, and barring any last-minute Republican conversions, Democrats would attempt to use a procedural tactic that only requires Democratic votes in the Senate to pass it.

An aide to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) let reporters know last week that his boss wants to add a public option to the final bill if Democrats choose to pursue a once-arcane procedural maneuver called reconciliation, in which the ruling party only needs a simple 51-vote majority for passage.

But even Democratic leaders are queasy about whether they can muster the votes to pass it in the post-Massachusetts environment. Senate moderates, in particular, have rebelled against the idea of using reconciliation to pass reform.

​

 

[Illegal Smile]

The dems took it on the chin when they bought votes from Lousiana and nebraska, just imagine if they try this. I guess it's time to drag out all the big dem speeches that were made when dems threatened to veto a Bush court nomineee and republicans threatened to use the nuke option. They all proclaimed it would be the end of the union and destroy over 200 years of history blah blah. It would be political suicide to do it and I don't think they would have the 51 votes.

Here's what I think they are doing - they recall that the last time we were on the brink of the nuclear option it ended with a compromise. Remember the gang of 14? Obama has been beated so bad on healthcare he now sees that a compromise is the best he can hope for. So he is posturing going into Thurs with sandbags meant to be dropped. The crazy stuff in this am's proposal and the threat to nuke is part of that. I think it will fail because of the hard left. they will oppose the compromise realizing that they will get nothing better for many years if it passes.

 

[abe23]

Thanks Han. I was only looking for the last time it was invoked by Republicans, but I appreciate the effort.

It was 2006. The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 [H. Con Res. 95, 12/21/05]

And we all know what happened to Republican control of both houses in 2006. And I'm sure we all agree deficit reduction is a good idea, unlike this monstrosity being negotiated in secret.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/24/budget-reconciliation/

This was a shortly after those very same republicans used that very same 'nuclear option' to push through the tax cuts that created those deficits. You're not usually one for blind partisanship, johnny. Why start now?

Once a good bill gets signed into law and everybody is happy with the outcome (i.e. more affordable coverage for everyone, near universal coverage), all your bitching and moaning will be forgotten and we can move on to more important matters, like legalizing our favorite herb!

 

[Illegal Smile]

Republicans have never used the nuclear option. Reconciliation for tax and spending bills is not the nuclear option. Do you want to see quotes from top dems from a few years ago screaming that it had never done before and set a horrible precedent?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

This was a shortly after those very same republicans used that very same 'nuclear option' to push through the tax cuts that created those deficits. You're not usually one for blind partisanship, johnny. Why start now?

Once a good bill gets signed into law and everybody is happy with the outcome (i.e. more affordable coverage for everyone, near universal coverage), all your bitching and moaning will be forgotten and we can move on to more important matters, like legalizing our favorite herb!

I was simply pointing out that employing the Reconciliation option is not such a good idea.

There's no need to infer more into the original thought than was intended.

But then again, what fun would history be if it did not repeat itself?