Do nutrients have a use by date?

willc

willc

Well-Known Member
Ive been using advanced nutrients monkey juice for 1 year and a half now from the same batch. Ive been doing everything the same but have noticed that im starting to get more nutrient disorders. Could it be that the nutes are going "off"?
 
C

Creek

Active Member
I try to use all my nutes in a year. Anything older then 1 year and I throw it out. I've had major issues with old nutes before and expecially advanced nutrients too.
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
Unless there are precipitates formed in the bottom of the jug then there is nothing that goes bad due to age as long as the caps left on. Precipiates usually are ony formed if the concentrated nutrients get hot or the water evaporates too much due to a cap not being on the jug. You are aware that the formulation is specifically made for use with growing medias that have a high CEC such as soil woith a lot of humus, peat moss or something like Coco Coir.
 
willc

willc

Well-Known Member
Nice one, yeah i have noticed sediment/crystals in the bottoms of the containers before but just gave it a good shake. I know its meant for Coco Coir but i just copied Bonemans hempy thread and it worked perfectly with almost exactly the same results ( https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/109237-bonemans-ak47-ppp-hempy-side.html ) I reckon it must be declining with age so i think ill sling it out and try the Iguana Juice (anyone got any experience with this?) thanks for the info!!
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
willc said:
Nice one, yeah i have noticed sediment/crystals in the bottoms of the containers before but just gave it a good shake. I know its meant for Coco Coir but i just copied Bonemans hempy thread and it worked perfectly with almost exactly the same results ( https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/109237-bonemans-ak47-ppp-hempy-side.html ) I reckon it must be declining with age so i think ill sling it out and try the Iguana Juice (anyone got any experience with this?) thanks for the info!!
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There is nothing that can decline with age. The only way nutrient reduction will take place is if the nutrients form the participates t you described. To get these back into supension just filter them out and add them to soe RO water. Heat and stir until they are dissolved. Let cool and add back to jug. The little bit of added water will dilute the strength a slight bit but the ratio of the nutrients will be restored abck to what they were when you bought them. Boneman is a nitwit I would not follow his advice about much of anything.
 
willc

willc

Well-Known Member
ha ha, ill give that a go, seems a shame to throw them away, thanks!
PS. lol, I thought bonemans thread was good, i followed it and got some great results
 
willc

willc

Well-Known Member
I just filtered out the sediment in the bottom of the container and its almost like limescale from an old kettle. Ive heated it in ro water but it doesnt seem to be dissolving, just kind of crushes down into a sand but doesnt become suspended ie sinks to the bottom, any ideas?
 
CLOSETGROWTH

CLOSETGROWTH

Well-Known Member
Buy fresh nutes, Dont risk nute deficiencies.. Not worth it.

Happened to me, clumping and low ppm, deficiencies ect..
 
S

sexyroots.for.all

Member
Hey Willc, this should shed some light on your nutrients :). In short, nutrients can always go bad (despite what people say about the freshness always being there). In nature, every object that is nonliving has a half life. This means that over a time span of "t", half of its mass will degrade. This is more commonly talked about when dealing with radioactive particles because their energy fades very quickly in addition to substance degradation, but the same thing applies to nutrients. A more common example would be how most medications expire, even though they are in condensed dry forms. As mentioned previously in the post, sediment build up on the bottom indicates that salts in the solution have "fallen out", meaning that although there is a liquid solution, it may be inactive. This is a common mistake for growers to assume that because there is liquid in the bottle, that the solution is still good. Lastly, since most growers do not practice laboratory practices, many solutions are tainted with traces of other solutions or chlorine or other contaminants. This reduces the shelf life of your nutrients even further. In theory, if a nutrient was stored with perfect management and temperature control etc. then yes, your solution could last you years. In practicality though, this is not the case and many people experience the effects of old nutrients!!! If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask :)
 
S

sexyroots.for.all

Member
Also, I have used the iguana juice from advanced nutrients if thats the one you are referring too. It worked extremely effectively (I was running a few other additives in addition although bud candy by advanced could replace most of them). The only problem I had with it was that because I run a bigger air pump than most with micropores (which provides excellent bubbling underneath) was that my solution sometimes started to bubble to much and I had to cut the power back. This seems to happen more with organic solutions than synthetics but overall it was worth the expensive pricetag that came with it. However, the connoisseur series for flowering and sensi A + B for vegetative in combination with some additives is highly efficient and I have not found a base nutrient that comes close to the performance.

http://www.hydrogardencenter.com/sensigrow1lparta.aspx
http://www.hydrogardencenter.com/sensigrow1lpartb.aspx
http://www.hydrogardencenter.com/budcandy1l.aspx
http://www.hydrogardencenter.com/connoisseur1lparta.aspx
http://www.hydrogardencenter.com/connoisseur1lpartb.aspx

If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask!
 
willc

willc

Well-Known Member
Thanks allot sexyroots.for.all, that makes allot of sense to me. Ive decided to ditch it and get some fresh Iguana Juice and maybe the bud candy like you suggest. The only thing that im worried about now is that people say it stinks, did you have this problem?
 
willc

willc

Well-Known Member
Just incase anyones interested, here was my reply from Advanced Nutrients tech support..

[FONT=&quot]Our products have a shelf life of 24 months, excluding Sensizym which has a shelf life of 18 months. If there are crystals, it means that certain parts elements have fallen out of solution. You may consider trying to reconstitute them using a bowl and hot water.[/FONT]

Short but sweet LOL, not really a definitive answer!
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
sexyroots.for.all said:
Hey Willc, this should shed some light on your nutrients :). In short, nutrients can always go bad (despite what people say about the freshness always being there). In nature, every object that is nonliving has a half life. This means that over a time span of "t", half of its mass will degrade. This is more commonly talked about when dealing with radioactive particles because their energy fades very quickly in addition to substance degradation, but the same thing applies to nutrients. A more common example would be how most medications expire, even though they are in condensed dry forms. As mentioned previously in the post, sediment build up on the bottom indicates that salts in the solution have "fallen out", meaning that although there is a liquid solution, it may be inactive. This is a common mistake for growers to assume that because there is liquid in the bottle, that the solution is still good. Lastly, since most growers do not practice laboratory practices, many solutions are tainted with traces of other solutions or chlorine or other contaminants. This reduces the shelf life of your nutrients even further. In theory, if a nutrient was stored with perfect management and temperature control etc. then yes, your solution could last you years. In practicality though, this is not the case and many people experience the effects of old nutrients!!! If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask :)
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Dude were talking minerals and metal half life times of thousands of years. Mineral fertilizers do not go bad in a human life span as long as they do not go out of suspension. Tainting the fertilizer with a little chlorine will have no great effect. Unless the fertilezers have some non mineral supplemments such as organics within the solutio the only thing that can effect the nutrient mix through normal handling and use is evaporation, heat or a radical change in the solution pH.
 
decrimCA

decrimCA

Active Member
fatman7574 said:
Dude were talking minerals and metal half life times of thousands of years. Mineral fertilizers do not go bad in a human life span as long as they do not go out of suspension. Tainting the fertilizer with a little chlorine will have no great effect. Unless the fertilezers have some non mineral supplemments such as organics within the solutio the only thing that can effect the nutrient mix through normal handling and use is evaporation, heat or a radical change in the solution pH.
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yeah, sexyroots, not sure I agree either that something can last forever. Even in perfect conditions, nutrients will break down. They just do.

Just like if you stuffed me in a room in perfect conditions, my body, being made of biological materials, will break down.

It just happens.

I'm glad that Advanced Nutrients emailed someone back and gave a time window in which you can rely on the products to still work.

I just try to make sure I'm always rotating my stuff to make sure it's new and fresh. And if I'm not sure, I just do ahead and buy a new bottle.

There's nothing worse than realizing your stuff is expired and then not being able to do a lot about it. Just crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.

It's a good idea to just write the date that you bought the nute on the bottle with a permanent market to remind yourself when it's time to go shopping.
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
decrimCA said:
yeah, sexyroots, not sure I agree either that something can last forever. Even in perfect conditions, nutrients will break down. They just do.

Just like if you stuffed me in a room in perfect conditions, my body, being made of biological materials, will break down.

Organic formulations, (like your body) are different from minerals. Organic formulations/compounds are always changing as they degared or are consumed by organisms and therefore changed. That is not the case with chemicals/minerals. Something has to make reaction conditions possible or they stay as they are.

It just happens. Sorry, that is not the case at all with chemical nutes.

I'm glad that Advanced Nutrients emailed someone back and gave a time window in which you can rely on the products to still work.

Wow, Dude, that is lame. AN is the most deceptive, parasitic mj nutrient manafacturer out there. They are simply giving general cover their butt information that did not evena addresss whether the nutrient formulation was organic or chemical. Likely you just got a sales reprep's canned cover thy companies ass response. Besides if AN could get people to believe the shelf life was a short time they simply sell more products.

I tell you what, if you buy their story simply send me or another grower your old chemical nutrients. I guarantee if chemical nutrients are not subjected to freezing, heat or evaporation there shelf life is indefinate as long as you do not grossly contaminate them with anything that redically alters their pH or that causes mass oxidation. Few people acidentially pour a large quantity of acid, alkaline or oxidants in a bottle of nconcentrated nutrients.

I just try to make sure I'm always rotating my stuff to make sure it's new and fresh. And if I'm not sure, I just do ahead and buy a new bottle. Like I said you can simply send me your old nutrients to me or some other grower who realises the stability of minerals.

There's nothing worse than realizing your stuff is expired and then not being able to do a lot about it. Just crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.

It's a good idea to just write the date that you bought the nute on the bottle with a permanent market to remind yourself when it's time to go shopping. Duh, and if they sit in the warehouse and on the retalers store shelf for a year what then? Do you see a use by date or a manfacturing date on the bottles of nutrients?
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It is nice that you have an opinion, but it would be better if your opinion was based on the science of chemistry.
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
Most have a couple year shelf life.
It's strange how they don't put an expiration date on most though.
AN uses batch codes to tell age. Wouldn't it be just as easy to put a fucking "use by this date" label on?
 
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