Marriage and Law

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
See...this sh!t's fun!

:leaf::peace::leaf:
i keep trying to tell people that. they all take this shit serious though. :mrgreen: :eyesmoke::eyesmoke:


why you gotta be married to LOVE someone in the first place? :roll:

when there is such a thing as divorce, marriage really means nothing.

my "wife" and i have been together 15+ years. we are not legally married. A LOT of our friends have been legally married. most are now divorced.

so, ........


:neutral:
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
i keep trying to tell people that. they all take this shit serious though. :mrgreen: :eyesmoke::eyesmoke:


why you gotta be married to LOVE someone in the first place? :roll:

when there is such a thing as divorce, marriage really means nothing.

my "wife" and i have been together 15+ years. we are not legally married. A LOT of our friends have been legally married. most are now divorced.

so, ........


:neutral:
Agreed. Nice post. Somebody give this guy some rep, cuz I gotta spread it around first.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
There are distinct legal ramifications to marriage. 400 Federal benefits/privileges and upwards to 1,000 distinct state benefits/privileges of marriage, depending on what state one resides in.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30190.html

If a couple chooses to forgo those advantages, that is their business. But to deny those advantages based on sexual preference is inequality.

50 years ago we could be having an almost identical conversation - about interracial marriage.

How times have changed. :clap:
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
There are distinct legal ramifications to marriage. 400 Federal benefits/privileges and upwards to 1,000 distinct state benefits/privileges of marriage, depending on what state one resides in.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30190.html

If a couple chooses to forgo those advantages, that is their business. But to deny those advantages based on sexual preference is inequality.

50 years ago we could be having an almost identical conversation - about interracial marriage.

How times have changed. :clap:
Those same rights could be afforded to them via civil unions without changing the fundamental meaning of marriage. And as stated previously, marriages of men and women of different races does nothing to change the fundamental meaning of marriage - marriage of same sexes obliterates it.

One right that is guaranteed in the Constitution is the freedom to one's own beliefs. To change the meaning of one of the most fundamental underlying concepts of our culture is to deny the majority their rights.

The only logical reason Gays want the definition of the word "marriage" changed, and not just civil unions is because they wish to force everyone to approve of them. Changing the definition of marriage is a way to co-opt approval. Once the term is usurped, nobody will have a choice. All couples, traditional or same sex will be linguistically indistinguishable and therefore fully indistinguishable. The traditional definition will have been crushed and will eventually be forgotten. Society will be forced, through process of elimination, to accept same sex marriage, like it or not. This is wrong and it a violation of everyone's rights.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Those same rights could be afforded to them via civil unions without changing the fundamental meaning of marriage. And as stated previously, marriages of men and women of different races does nothing to change the fundamental meaning of marriage - marriage of same sexes obliterates it.

One right that is guaranteed in the Constitution is the freedom to one's own beliefs. To change the meaning of one of the most fundamental underlying concepts of our culture is to deny the majority their rights.

The only logical reason Gays want the definition of the word "marriage" changed, and not just civil unions is because they wish to force everyone to approve of them. Changing the definition of marriage is a way to co-opt approval. Once the term is usurped, nobody will have a choice. All couples, traditional or same sex will be linguistically indistinguishable and therefore fully indistinguishable. The traditional definition will have been crushed and will eventually be forgotten. Society will be forced, through process of elimination, to accept same sex marriage, like it or not. This is wrong and it a violation of everyone's rights.
I oppose asking the state for permission to be "married" because it cedes them the authority to define marriage. It's beyond the scope of what they should be doing . It's none of their business, or frankly mine or yours who marrys whom. Only the parties that are involved need give consent, nobody else should intrude.

As Johnny O alluded to, there was a time not long ago where the state prohibited/controlled interracial marriage. That's pretty fucked.

Johnny O again points out the "benefits" the state provides if people get "legally" married. In that context it IS discriminating to deny gays those rights. However I'm a firm believer that rights shouldn't come from government, or be cntingent upon sexual orientation, therefore I reject government involvement in any marriage gay or straight, unless that's what those involved specifically want.

Besides, how are you harmed by two gay people wanting to call themselves "married" anyway? You seem to be a pretty smart guy, but sometimes hung up on controlling others. If you don't approve of gay marriage, you are still free to hold that belief, are you worried society will crumble if people become more tolerant of things that YOU don't approve of?

Heck I don't approve of lots of shit, I used to be very into working out and a good diet, but I didn't want to use government to round up all the fat people, although being out of shape
was something I absolutely was against. You can burn up alot of energy worrying about how others live their lives. Not trying to diss you, just my honest opinion.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Again, Gays can be afforded all benefits afforded to Straights through civil unions.

A small minority doesn't have the right to force the majority to change the definition of marriage and forever alter its meaning. I believe the traditional definition is the best example for the society in which I must live. I believe to change it would be harmful in the grand scheme of things. Because I believe it would be harmful, I will excises my RIGHT not to vote to do so.

In exercising my right not to vote to redefine marriage, I am denying nobody of anything save my public endorsement of their lifestyle. Neither myself nor anyone else is in any way obligated to vote against our conscious and the refusal to do so is in no way a denial of anyone else's rights.

I will and have voted against efforts to curtail same sex civil unions on the bases of equal rights, but I will not vote to abolish through dilution and linguistic trickery an institution central to our culture and the faith and conviction of the majority of people. To deny something so central to most people's religions is in my opinion, to deny them the freedom to practice their religion. This, I will not do.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Again, Gays can be afforded all benefits afforded to Straights through civil unions.

A small minority doesn't have the right to force the majority to change the definition of marriage and forever alter its meaning. I believe the traditional definition is the best example for the society in which I must live. I believe to change it would be harmful in the grand scheme of things. Because I believe it would be harmful, I will excises my RIGHT not to vote to do so.

In exercising my right not to vote to redefine marriage, I am denying nobody of anything save my public endorsement of their lifestyle. Neither myself nor anyone else is in any way obligated to vote against our conscious and the refusal to do so is in no way a denial of anyone else's rights.

I will and have voted against efforts to curtail same sex civil unions on the bases of equal rights, but I will not vote to abolish through dilution and linguistic trickery an institution central to our culture and the faith and conviction of the majority of people. To deny something so central to most people's religions is in my opinion, to deny them the freedom to practice their religion. This, I will not do.
Rick, vote any way that you'd like by all means. Your vote won't change another's orientation. If you feel that somebody gay calling themselves "married" is stealing the meaning of the word, I'd agree that traditionally speaking you are correct. Love between straight people or gay is no more or less valid an emotion because of orientation though. I hope you can agree there.

Again, if the state would get out of "blessing" ALL marriages this conversation would be moot.

Linguistic trickery? Is that anything like being a cunning linguist?
 

Wordz

Well-Known Member
Rick, vote any way that you'd like by all means. Your vote won't change another's orientation. If you feel that somebody gay calling themselves "married" is stealing the meaning of the word, I'd agree that traditionally speaking you are correct. Love between straight people or gay is no more or less valid an emotion because of orientation though. I hope you can agree there.

Again, if the state would get out of "blessing" ALL marriages this conversation would be moot.

Linguistic trickery? Is that anything like being a cunning linguist?
gay used to mean happy. fag used to mean cigarette. stop trying to change the meaning of the wordz rick :hump::hump: haha butt sex smilies
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
Again, Gays can be afforded all benefits afforded to Straights through civil unions.

A small minority doesn't have the right to force the majority to change the definition of marriage and forever alter its meaning. I believe the traditional definition is the best example for the society in which I must live. I believe to change it would be harmful in the grand scheme of things. Because I believe it would be harmful, I will excises my RIGHT not to vote to do so.

In exercising my right not to vote to redefine marriage, I am denying nobody of anything save my public endorsement of their lifestyle. Neither myself nor anyone else is in any way obligated to vote against our conscious and the refusal to do so is in no way a denial of anyone else's rights.

I will and have voted against efforts to curtail same sex civil unions on the bases of equal rights, but I will not vote to abolish through dilution and linguistic trickery an institution central to our culture and the faith and conviction of the majority of people. To deny something so central to most people's religions is in my opinion, to deny them the freedom to practice their religion. This, I will not do.
So you could care less about the 1st Amendment?
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
So you could care less about the 1st Amendment?
I found it ironic as well.

Denying equality to a minority based on religious intolerance.

Such a scenario goes to the very reason why the Establishment Clause exists in the first place.

Elizabeth Taylor has done more damage to the institution of marriage in the eyes of our society than 'Adam and Steve' ever could.

How many husbands has that old hag had?
 
K

Keenly

Guest
rick is making no fucking sense at all


your being such a hypocrite right now its laughable

let me break it down for you


you strictly defending "the right of people to practice their religion"



so i guess that whole "pursuit of happiness" thing you just kind of forgot about?


"a small minority doesnt have the right to change stuff?"


right... thats only what this country has done.. since its conception....


seriously rick, think before you post...


your also advocating "seperate but equal" which is unconstitutional


you cant preach the constitution while at the same time stepping all over it...
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
I guess I should just accept the fact that some people have poor reading comprehension and lack the ability to grasp complex ideas.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
i guess because you dont like something other people shouldnt be allowed to do it then huh? :roll:


your ideals are not complex in nature at all, your quoiting the constitution, while at the same time promoting discrimination, and ignoring the part of the constitution that says your opinion goes against it...


its so complex it doesnt even make sense :roll:
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
Once the term is usurped, nobody will have a choice. All couples, traditional or same sex will be linguistically indistinguishable and therefore fully indistinguishable.

So many things wrong with this statement, where to begin....

Will I not be able to distinguish Adam and Eve frm Adam and Steve once gay marriage passes? You said once they are 'inguistically indistinguishable' they will therefore be 'fully indistinguishable'. Do you even understand what this statement implies? Or does tossing around 10 dollar words make you feel smarter?

Also, since same sex coupling has been going on for as long as opposite sex coupling has, who is to say that one is 'traditional' and the other is not? In ancient Greece and Rome, the male-male relationship was often held in higher esteem than the man-wife relationship.

And the tangent into interracial marriage is quite valid here. An interracial couple was denied a marriage license recently, and the magistrate denied he was racist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ix0qi-SibE
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
I guess I should just accept the fact that some people have poor reading comprehension and lack the ability to grasp complex ideas.
You mean reading comprehension like ignoring that SCOTUS has said that marriage is a right? You mean like ignoring the concept 'separate but equal?' You mean ignoring how marriage has had many definitions throughout the ages?
You mean not comprehending how civil marriage and religious marriage are two distinct entities and recognition of the former does not require acceptance of the later? Marriage is recognized by the government because of the protections it offers to family members. Freedom from testifying against a spouse, medical proxy laws, inheritance are only a few of the rights granted by government for married couples. You and others of like mind are more than happy to keep these and other rights from committed gay couples in guise of 'protecting' marriage.
You then have the nerve to say that your opponents just can't understand these "complex issues". :spew:
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
Keenly stated, Keenly.

America has a long history of protecting the rights of the minority.....because it is the right fucking thing to do.
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
The vast majority of Blacks disagree whole heartedly that there is any parallel between their status as minorities and that of Gays. Furthermore, they disagree that gay marriage and inter-racial marriage are in any way the same thing.

Inter-racial couples fit the legal definition of marriage and always have.

Again, civil unions would give Gays the same rights. Refusing to destroy the meaning of the term "marriage" does not deny anyone equal rights. You can not steal words in order to co-opt their meaning and force people to accept your ways.
 
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