How many of you are ex-diehard Obama lovers

[CrackerJax]

Also I love how you have nothing to say about life expectancy.

Really.... guess you missed my last post huh.

I can't help you if you can't follow along.

Canada's health care system is in the same shape as Europe's..... broke and rationing.


There is NO socialized health program out there worth emulating.

You need to get something in your head.

You CANNOT add 31 million ppl to insurance ... AND..... lower costs. That's a lie....a bold faced lie.

And the govt. cannot lower costs no matter if they add ppl or not. All one need do is look at Medicare.

Rationing and bloated debt is what Medicare is now.

You are in a fog.

 

[Balzac89]

And you don't seem to realize that the Europe doesn't use the same parameters as the USA with mortality rates.

You either don't know (uninformed)

Or you do know (dishonest)

Which is it?

The uninsured are pegged at 31 million....not 70.

You can add ppl to the welfare state, but you can't bring down costs at the same time. End of story....anyone who tells you different (like Obama) is LYING to you.

Do you have any idea why costs are so high? Because of all of these corporations have executives who get paid millions and millions if not billions of dollars a year.

Your low balling figures i've read everything from 45 million to 70 million. Even if you use your figures thats 31 million people in the U.S. that cannot afford to get sick or get hurt or they will lost their job and be striken evfen deeper into poverty. Your point of veiw only benefits the rich. These people do not have health insurance because they cannot afford it. Companies like Walmart have people work 37 hours a week for minimum wage, then they don't have to give them health insurance, they couldn't afford to give these companies their whole check anyways. They make around or less than 200 dollars a week. I'm sorry but that barely covers rent, car insurance and other necessitites. How would they ever get out of debt if they were to ever get hurt badly as in a car accident or a fall and need extensive surgery and its not their fault. Why punish them. Even if they had insurance it would be the private companies that would decide if they are worth the expensive surgery. Thats bullshit and if you do not believe that government induced coverage wouldn't create more competetion by offering the lowest rates possible, called not for profit. I'm sorry, BUT YOUR AS BLIND AS EVERYONE ESLE IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS. AT THE PACE WE CONTINUE TO PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE PRIVATE CORPORATIONS ARE STARTING TO PUT MORE OF THE COST ON THE WORKERS RATHER THAN TAKIGN THE RUNT OF THE COST ON THEMSELVES. IN THE LONG RUN THE INSURANCE YOUR SO HAPPY ABOUT IS GOING TO DOUBLE IN COST. CAN YOU AFFORD THAT? WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SUPPORT A BROKEN SYSTEM WITH YOUR MONEY AND GET THE LEAST RETURN. I ALWAYS SAY PEOPLE ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR INSURANCE AS LONG AS NOTHING BAD HAPPENS. WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS IT SEEMS THAT PEOPLE HVE NOTHING BUT TO BATTLE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO GET THEM TO COVER ANYTHING. MY OWN GRANDMOTHER HAD A BAD FALL WHILE WORKING ON HER FLOWER GARDEN LAST YEAR AND BROKE HER HIP. HER INSURANCE COMPANY WHO SHE HAD LOVED UP TO THE POINT REFUSED TO PAY FOR HER OPERATION. HOW IS THAT EVEN CLOSE TO RIGHT. MY GRANDMOTHER WROTE A BUNCH OF LETTERS TO OUR CONGRESSMEN AND GOVENER AND GUESS WHAT A WEEK AFTER SHE SENT THE LETTER THE INSURANCE COMPANY APPROVED HER OPERATION. FUCK ALL OF THE CORRUPTION, YOUR A BLIND FOOL IF YOU SUPPORT THIS BROKEN SYSTEM.

 

[CrackerJax]

The 31 million is OBAMAS figure.... what else can I say. You are INFLATING it past your own President!

So much for your objectivity.

My point of view is the view of COMMON SENSE. Can you add and subtract? try applying a little math to the issue, or is your greed that high that the bills don't concern you. They do concern me, and everyone else who is actually paying attention.

You are NOT paying attention at all.

Your entire post is a prime example of someone who is NOT informed.

 

[Rob Roy]

Really.... guess you missed my last post huh.

I can't help you if you can't follow along.

Canada's health care system is in the same shape as Europe's..... broke and rationing.


There is NO socialized health program out there worth emulating.

You need to get something in your head.

You CANNOT add 31 million ppl to insurance ... AND..... lower costs. That's a lie....a bold faced lie.

And the govt. cannot lower costs no matter if they add ppl or not. All one need do is look at Medicare.

Rationing and bloated debt is what Medicare is now.

You are in a fog.

You are correct, you cannot reduce cost by shifting the cost off to another party or future generations. I agree with you on this topic. No disagreement with your logic here.

Something puzzles me though...you seem to grasp this topic (healthcare) very well yet you think by approving incarcerating a man for 35 years that is an effective way to end prohibition on drugs.

If you can't reduce costs by "adding" costs, how do you advance a cause (ending prohibition) by endorsing the
wrongful actions of the opposition?

I'm puzzled by your inconsistent logic, from one topic to another, what am I missing?

 

[Balzac89]

yeah and I call bullshit on all of your facts.

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.


1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 <A href="http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_care_2008_nyt.html" target=_blank>United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar

Did you see Canada and the UK on there? Where were they? Wait wheres the United States? Keep going down brother. Number one France has social medicine.

 

[Balzac89]

The 31 million is OBAMAS figure.... what else can I say. You are INFLATING it past your own President!

So much for your objectivity.

My point of view is the view of COMMON SENSE. Can you add and subtract? try applying a little math to the issue, or is your greed that high that the bills don't concern you. They do concern me, and everyone else who is actually paying attention.

You are NOT paying attention at all.

Your entire post is a prime example of someone who is NOT informed.

You are reeking of FAIL. How does my position support greed? Because I believe that peoplewho cannot afford help should pay a little more taxes out of their paycheck to cover healthcare. I said nothing about the government paying for anything. It will be covered by taxes. I will let you know that I am going to be joining those 30 million Americans when i get my degree and will no longer be covered under my familys health insurance.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

I notice that the list said Health Systems.

Any clue as to which nation would be on top of the list if it said Health Care?

I wonder...?

 

[Balzac89]

Health systems means healthcare, they are all called different things in different countries. God damn are you a birther or what?

 

[Balzac89]

Ranking Country Expenditure Per Capita 1France42Italy113San Marino214Andorra235Malta376Singapore387Spain248Oman629Austria610Japan1311Norway1612Portugal2813Monaco1214Greece3015Iceland1416Luxembourg517Netherlands918United Kingdom2619Ireland2520Switzerland221Belgium1522Colombia4923Sweden724Cyprus3925Germany326Saudi Arabia6327United Arab Emirates3528Israel1929Morocco9930Canada1031Finland1832Australia1733Chile4434Denmark835Dominica7036Costa Rica5037United States138Slovenia2939Cuba11840Brunei3241New Zealand2042Bahrain4843Croatia5644Qatar2745Kuwait4146Barbados3647Thailand6448Czech Republic4049Malaysia9350Poland58

Cost of expenses vs ranking. U.S. pays the most per capita but is only 37th. France is Fourth on expenses but is NUMBER ONE in care given.

 

[Balzac89]

Cuba is just below us yet they are something like 118 on the list of expenses and we are number 1. AMERICA IS FINALLY NUMBER ONE AT SOMETHING AGAIN AND ITS HEALTHCARE COSTS VS LOW VALUE FOR OUR HARD EARNED MONEY.

 

[Rob Roy]

You are correct, you cannot reduce cost by shifting the cost off to another party or future generations. I agree with you on this topic. No disagreement with your logic here.

Something puzzles me though...you seem to grasp this topic (healthcare) very well yet you think by approving incarcerating a man for 35 years that is an effective way to end prohibition on drugs.

If you can't reduce costs by "adding" costs, how do you advance a cause (ending prohibition) by endorsing the
wrongful actions of the opposition?

I'm puzzled by your inconsistent logic, from one topic to another, what am I missing?

Bump. So what gives Cracker?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

You are reeking of FAIL. How does my position support greed? Because I believe that peoplewho cannot afford help should pay a little more taxes out of their paycheck to cover healthcare. I said nothing about the government paying for anything. It will be covered by taxes. I will let you know that I am going to be joining those 30 million Americans when i get my degree and will no longer be covered under my familys health insurance.

That explains it.

You're still in school.

No wonder you know everything.

Health systems means healthcare, they are all called different things in different countries. God damn are you a birther or what?

I suppose you need to believe I'm a birther to reinforce your notion that everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

I am happy to disappoint you.

A system is quite different from care. But Proggies like you have used that to your advantage to muddle the waters by changing the focus of the argument.

At first the debate was over Health Care until some smart apple pointed out that American Health care is the best in the world.

Then it morphed into access to health care until some other smart apple pointed out that no one can be denied health care by law.

So then the focus of the debate became insurance. Which is where we are today. We have the Community Organizer back in campaign mode ranting about evil insurance companies. And we have you raving about evil corporations in an anti-capitalist tirade.

It amuses me to no end to see Progressives rage against Corporatism when they created it in the U.S.

 

[Balzac89]

Typical Americans afraid of anything new. Why replace a broken system when it benefits the rich so much? Oh wait because the majority of people are poor. I'm sorry but the corruption in our system is what stems communism movements. Which i do not support. I am not a communist and nor am i a socialist. You have to realize the United States is falling apart. We are the capitalist soviet union, like the communists we failed because of the greed of the rich.

 

[Balzac89]

Now that I support my opinion with real facts, you have no rebuttal but the fact that i'm a stooooopid college kid.

 

[CrackerJax]

Like i already said.... your posts point out glaringly that you are not informed on the subject ...

 

[abe23]

Wow, this argument again. huh?

I lived in europe for a long time and germany and france both have excellent healthcare systems. It actually costs less than what we do, everyone is covered and you have access to world-class medicine. In france it's a single-payer system where you are automatically insured through your employer. In germany, there are health insurance companies but they don't make a profit.

What we have is more the lack of a system than anything else. There is minimal regulation or protection for consumers. Insurance companies simply suck money out of the system and away from the care you receive. This is what you're defending? Seriously?

 

[Balzac89]

There is nothing wrong with making a profit, except when it decides who lives and dies.

 

[Balzac89]

Wow, this argument again. huh?

I lived in europe for a long time and germany and france both have excellent healthcare systems. It actually costs less than what we do, everyone is covered and you have access to world-class medicine. In france it's a single-payer system where you are automatically insured through your employer. In germany, there are health insurance companies but they don't make a profit.

What we have is more the lack of a system than anything else. There is minimal regulation or protection for consumers. Insurance companies simply suck money out of the system and away from the care you receive. This is what you're defending? Seriously?

Im just waiting for Cracker to tell you you're wrong.

 

[CrackerJax]

World class medicine.... sure...

the USA leads every other nation when it come to medical technology. Almost ALL medical NOBELS are American EXCLUSIVELY.
There is a reason for that. Socialism kills innovation. Have a serious disease? Get your arse over to the USA. Want a band aid? Go to europe.

 

[abe23]

Like i already said.... your posts point out glaringly that you are not informed on the subject ...

And yours tend to suggest that you are uninformed on most subjects and also a bit of a prick...