Some economic truths ....

ViRedd

New Member
Income Mobility

By Walter E. Williams

Wednesday, December 5, 2007


Listening to people like Lou Dobbs, John Edwards and Mike Huckabee lamenting the plight of America's middle class and poor, you'd have to conclude that things are going to hell in a handbasket. According to them, there's wage stagnation, while the rich are getting richer and the poor becoming poorer. There are a couple of updates that tell quite a different story.

The Nov. 13 Wall Street Journal editorial "Movin' On Up" reports on a recent U.S. Treasury study of income tax returns from 1996 and 2005. The study tracks what happened to tax filers 25 years of age and up during this 10-year period. Controlling for inflation, nearly 58 percent of the poorest income group in 1996 moved to a higher income group by 2005. Twenty-six percent of them achieved middle or upper-middle class income, and over 5 percent made it into the highest income group.

Over the decade, the inflation-adjusted median income of all tax filers rose by 24 percent. As such, it refutes Dobbs-Edwards-Huckabee claims about stagnant incomes. In fact, only one income group experienced a decline in real income. That was the richest one percent, who saw an income drop of nearly 26 percent over the 10-year period. The editors explain that these people might have been rich for a few years, had some capital gains, or could not stand up to the competition with new entrepreneurs and wealth creators.

The U.S. Treasury study confirms previous studies dating back to the 1960s, concluding, "The basic finding of this analysis is that relative income mobility is approximately the same in the last 10 years as it was in the previous decade." As such, it points to a uniquely American feature: Just because you know where a person ended up in life doesn't mean you can be sure about where he started. Most of today's higher income and wealthy did not start out that way.

What about claims of a disappearing middle class? Let's do some detective work. Controlling for inflation, in 1967, 8 percent of households had an annual income of $75,000 and up; in 2003, more than 26 percent did. In 1967, 17 percent of households had a $50,000 to $75,000 income; in 2003, it was 18 percent. In 1967, 22 percent of households were in the $35,000 to $50,000 income group; by 2003, it had fallen to 15 percent. During the same period, the $15,000 to $35,000 category fell from 31 percent to 25 percent, and the under $15,000 category fell from 21 percent to 16 percent. The only reasonable conclusion from this evidence is that if the middle class is disappearing, it's doing so by swelling the ranks of the upper classes.

What about the concentration of wealth? In 1918, John D. Rockefeller's fortune accounted for more than half of one percent of total private wealth. To compile the same half of one percent of the private wealth in the United States today, you'd have to combine the fortunes of Microsoft's Bill Gates ($53 billion) and Paul Allen ($16 billion), Oracle's Larry Ellison ($19 billion), and a third of Berkshire Hathaway's Warren Buffett's $46 billion. In 1920, America's richest one percent held about 40 percent of private wealth; by 1980, the private wealth held by the richest one percent fell to about 20 percent and has remained stable at that level since.

Demagogues duping Americans about stagnant and declining income give politicians justification to raise taxes and place regulatory obstacles in the path of risk-taking, productivity and hard work that will impede the enviable income mobility that has become a part of American tradition. Raising taxes on capital formation reduces the rate of capital formation. Raising taxes on income reduces incentives to work. Unfortunately, because so many Americans buy into the politics of envy, politicians have a leg up in enacting measures that cripple economic growth.


Dr. Williams serves on the faculty of George Mason University as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics and is the author of More Liberty Means Less Government: Our Founders Knew This Well.
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medicineman

New Member
Dr. Williams needs to climb down out of his Ivory tower and have a look around, 30,000+ Home forclosures in SO. Nevada alone this year and more to come. Record bankruptcies, more unemployed than in the history of the country. (They stop counting unemployed after their 6-9 months of benefits run out). When you live in the fantasy land of the rich, it's amazing how rosy things can look. Dr. Williams, take off those blinders and look around, It aint you fathers Amerika.
 

iblazethatkush

Well-Known Member
The value of the dollar goes down every year and the gov't has to print more and more of it to cover the deficit. So of course people are going to have more worthless paper money, it doesn't mean they're richer. They just have more paper money at a deflated price.
 

closet.cult

New Member
between higher taxes for the poor and lower for the rich and the inflation tax, i'd say this article is worthless. even if every number in it correct, this system in place insures the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer.

there's no way to spin it. shut the fuck up, walter williams.
 

ViRedd

New Member
From the article:

Over the decade, the inflation-adjusted median income of all tax filers rose by 24 percent.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
From the article:

Over the decade, the inflation-adjusted median income of all tax filers rose by 24 percent.

Vi
And all those millions that were layed off and no longer recieve any income, How much did their income rise? Tell this bullshit to an ex GM line worker, to an ex telecom worker, to any ex-workers as there are plenty of them to go around, in fact you might meet a few at the McDonalds drive through taking your order, yeah, their income sure went up 24%, NOT. This is neo-con drivel. The rich just make shit up to suit their needs. Economy in the Dumper, lets put out a report saying how great things are, we'll just leave out the facts.
 

may

Well-Known Member
From the article:

Over the decade, the inflation-adjusted median income of all tax filers rose by 24 percent.

Vi
Vi thats just from clintons term in office.

Do you really think things are looking better for the future? For the poor or rich.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
You guys who are critical of Williams have yet to produce any specific coherent refutation....as closet.cult says above...."if every number in it correct"....I fail to see any follow thru on this point.....?

I am fairly certain that these numbers are accurate below:

In 1920, America's richest one percent held about 40 percent of private wealth; by 1980, the private wealth held by the richest one percent fell to about 20 percent and has remained stable at that level since.

Demagogues duping Americans about stagnant and declining income give politicians justification to raise taxes and place regulatory obstacles in the path of risk-taking, productivity and hard work that will impede the enviable income mobility that has become a part of American tradition.

excerpted from Vi's post
 

ViRedd

New Member
And all those millions that were layed off and no longer recieve any income, How much did their income rise? Tell this bullshit to an ex GM line worker, to an ex telecom worker, to any ex-workers as there are plenty of them to go around, in fact you might meet a few at the McDonalds drive through taking your order, yeah, their income sure went up 24%, NOT. This is neo-con drivel. The rich just make shit up to suit their needs. Economy in the Dumper, lets put out a report saying how great things are, we'll just leave out the facts.
So, by your "logic" Med ... we should still be paying subsidies to all the workers who were laid off from the buggy whip manufacturers?

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
So, by your "logic" Med ... we should still be paying subsidies to all the workers who were laid off from the buggy whip manufacturers?

Vi
No we should be providing liveable wage jobs so they can support their families instead of shipping jobs overseas and importing cheaper labor. Are you really that fucking stupid. How do you provide jobs for 150 Million Americans if you are exporting them and importing cheap labor. That only works for the elites. If you had it your way, there would be a couple of million elites and 298 million slaves, a feudel society, an oligarcy, thats what you want, fuck the real workers of America, a 3.00 an hour job is more than they deserve. let them live in cardboard shacks like So. America and be the chaff of society. Believe me pal, those that think like you will be the first to be be-headed in public when the revolution comes. I myself will build the guillotines. I am a pretty good carpenter. Heck, I might even take the executioners job, if it pays a liveable wage,~LOL~.
 

ViRedd

New Member
No we should be providing liveable wage jobs so they can support their families instead of shipping jobs overseas and importing cheaper labor. Are you really that fucking stupid. How do you provide jobs for 150 Million Americans if you are exporting them and importing cheap labor. That only works for the elites. If you had it your way, there would be a couple of million elites and 298 million slaves, a feudel society, an oligarcy, thats what you want, fuck the real workers of America, a 3.00 an hour job is more than they deserve. let them live in cardboard shacks like So. America and be the chaff of society. Believe me pal, those that think like you will be the first to be be-headed in public when the revolution comes. I myself will build the guillotines. I am a pretty good carpenter. Heck, I might even take the executioners job, if it pays a liveable wage,~LOL~.
And the unemployment rate is what? And how many jobs were added last month? And how many jobs have been added during GW's term in office? Do a friggin' Google search before you call others stupid, stupid.

There are other sites on the Web besides Moveon ... and other commentators besides Kieth Blabberman.

And paying a "livable wage" to those who produce less than what they are being paid for, would be at who's expense?

Vi
 

ccodiane

New Member
No we should be providing liveable wage jobs so they can support their families instead of shipping jobs overseas and importing cheaper labor. Are you really that fucking stupid. How do you provide jobs for 150 Million Americans if you are exporting them and importing cheap labor. That only works for the elites. If you had it your way, there would be a couple of million elites and 298 million slaves, a feudel society, an oligarcy, thats what you want, fuck the real workers of America, a 3.00 an hour job is more than they deserve. let them live in cardboard shacks like So. America and be the chaff of society. Believe me pal, those that think like you will be the first to be be-headed in public when the revolution comes. I myself will build the guillotines. I am a pretty good carpenter. Heck, I might even take the executioners job, if it pays a liveable wage,~LOL~.
You better take the brains from those heads you would love to remove since you don't seem to have been endowed with one.
 

ccodiane

New Member
And the unemployment rate is what? And how many jobs were added last month? And how many jobs have been added during GW's term in office? Do a friggin' Google search before you call others stupid, stupid.

There are other sites on the Web besides Moveon ... and other commentators besides Kieth Blabberman.

And paying a "livable wage" to those who produce less than what they are being paid for, would be at who's expense?

Vi
Absolutely correct in your assertions. Things continue to improve every time we get a Republican President. Wait until we get another true conservative, it might be the death blow of the liberal Democratic party.
 

medicineman

New Member
And the unemployment rate is what? And how many jobs were added last month? And how many jobs have been added during GW's term in office? Do a friggin' Google search before you call others stupid, stupid.

There are other sites on the Web besides Moveon ... and other commentators besides Kieth Blabberman.

And paying a "livable wage" to those who produce less than what they are being paid for, would be at who's expense?

Vi
You are an Idiot, pure and simple. explaining anything to you outside your little boxed in peanut brain is futile, just in case you forgot or your brain exploded at the suggestion, every person that has been on un-employment for over 6-9 mos. is dropped from the unemployed roles, not that many find new jobs and extremely few ever find one that compares to the ones they lost, so government unemployment figures are erroneous, specifically intended to make things look better than they are, Dumbass. Get educated, not brainwashed!
 

ccodiane

New Member
Typical liberal viewpoint. Nothing is ever going to be as good as it was. Getting laid off or fired might just be the kick in the ass that gets you moving to self-employment. But who would want to be their own boss, its too hard to unionize.
 

medicineman

New Member
Typical liberal viewpoint. Nothing is ever going to be as good as it was. Getting laid off or fired might just be the kick in the ass that gets you moving to self-employment. But who would want to be their own boss, its too hard to unionize.
What a fucking Idiot.
 
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