Are airstones the best way to aerate reservoirs?

uhhwhat

Well-Known Member
I'm a noob to hydro (except for all the reading I've done) so I put one of the long thin blue airstones in my 18 gal reservoir (for a flood table) like I was told. I've been reading everything I can find about the purpose airstones but I'm still a little confused. Pardon me if my questions are retarded :bigjoint:+ reading= :confused: .

I keep reading "use airstones to aerate your tank." Okay, but what is that doing to help my plants? To me it looks like I pump air into my water and it comes right back out the top, is there any evidence that some of the O2 actually stays in the water? Secondly, WTF is the stone for? Is it just to weigh down the air tube? If all I need is air flowing through my water am I better off using a power filter?
 

uhhwhat

Well-Known Member
So you are saying airtsones are more effective than just an air hose because a higher ammount of little bubbles is better than a small ammount of big bubbles?
 

H.R. Shove N Stuff

Active Member
Yes there is more surface area in hundreds of little bubbles than a few big bubbles. Just think of ice in water, a lot of tiny ice cubes will chill a drink faster than 1 big ice cube. I'am sure either way will work fine but air stone is more effecient.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
I have read (and found this to be true) that the blue air stones tend to disintegrate in lower PH water leaving blue sand in the bottom of your reservoir.

There are weighted flexible bubble wands on the market that prevent floating of the tube and come in a variety of sizes from at least 18" to 48".

I am trying them now and having luck with them. Easy to position and they stay where you put them.
 

fatman7574

New Member
I have read (and found this to be true) that the blue air stones tend to disintegrate in lower PH water leaving blue sand in the bottom of your reservoir.

There are weighted flexible bubble wands on the market that prevent floating of the tube and come in a variety of sizes from at least 18" to 48".

I am trying them now and having luck with them. Easy to position and they stay where you put them.
Most weighted wands are weigted with lead. They are sold for use in fresh water aquariums where the pH is higher and lead is not really an issue as you will not be consuming the fish. Lead leaches into acidic water real well. Your better off without lead weighted wands. Just attach onon weighted wands to some thing like a glass ash tray with rubber bands. The safest airstones made that put out small bubbles are wooden airstones. They are very cheap to make for anyone who has a table saw and drill or knows someone who has a table saw and drill. They colg up farily quickly so they cost to much to buy premade. They typically clog up in about two weeks. They are typically just made of bass wood.

Myself, I recommend a pump and venturi valve instead of an air pump and airstones. Or for a bit more buy a small needle wheel pump which comes with a venturi.
 

CaliKushSmoker

Active Member
airstones are better . we all know that... the airpupmp/stone help YES with the oxygen in the solution. it also helps your nutes stay blended nice .. it helps your ph stay more stable..peace
 

fatman7574

New Member
airstones are better . we all know that... the airpupmp/stone help YES with the oxygen in the solution. it also helps your nutes stay blended nice .. it helps your ph stay more stable..peace
Nope your wrong dude. Airstones are just the cheapest method. They are far from the best.
 

uhhwhat

Well-Known Member
I'm using H2O2 along with my airtsone so I assume there's plenty of O2 in the water. I want everything to be optimal though, so is it really worth it to upgrade from the airstone?
 

fatman7574

New Member
I'm using H2O2 along with my airtsone so I assume there's plenty of O2 in the water. I want everything to be optimal though, so is it really worth it to upgrade from the airstone?
In reality DO is not really such an issue. Plants really do not have that large of a demand. Where the DO is required is seldom looked at or addressed by most growers or posters to the forums. Few realise that in a good sytem where the water is in movement through the system freely there is no major DO problem even with pretty low DO.

Where problems arise is where the flow of thw water is slowed down as it is expected to flow through masses of roots..IE roots laying in the bottom of RO tubes, in the troughs of NTF tubes, in poorly draining Rock Wool or through any medium with poor drainage. You also have debris that collects in nooks and crannies and oxygen free bacteria develop in thi ose areas. Water that moves slowly through roots is stripped of DO and therefore supplies a site for oxygen free bacteria to develop. This quickly leads to root rot.

It is hoped by growers that high DO in the reservoir will cause faster growth (no basis for that believe as the plants do not have large needs) and less chances of Root Rot. This escape from root rot is not the case even with the highest levels of DO if the coditions I just addressesd exist. Whether you have a DO of 2 ppm or 8 ppm really matters little if the roots are surrounded with or laying in water with a DO at or near zero for any time on a repetitive or continual basis.

Even DWC can have the same problem when the water is not circulated or aerated well enough as the roots near the center of the mass are often in water with a DO near zero. There are many bucket systems where the drains for the buckets are an inch or so above the bottom of the bucket and medais such as hydroton are in the buckets. These buckets tend through poor circulation in the bottom inch , end up with zero ppm water at the bottom of the bucket and of cousre root rot develops there.

Many ebb and flow sytems have buckets and pots where water stagnates under the pots and buckets and in the corners of the tables and where drain entrances are higher than the table top. A darin made with a bulkhead that has a 1/4" tall lip means a 1/4" of water sitting there that will give up its DO to roots and leave the roots sitting in in that 1/4" of zero ppm water until the next flood. Staganated water is zero DO water quickly. Root rot will start there if any roots reach those areas.

As ar as air pumps and airstones. You need to realise in a body of water the majority of the oxygen entering the water is at the surface of the water. Water that is turbulent at the surface takes up oxygen and releases Co2 quicker than still water. This turbulence can be supllied by a pump or airstones. Pumps do it better but are more expensive generally. Air pumped into the water in a resrvoir not com ntaining roots will not add as much DO as the turbulence at the waters surface they create. This is modified by using smaller bubbles as the cretae less surface turbulence and they have a much gretaer surafce area and they are actually in the water for a longer period of time before reaching thw waters surface.

If you add roots IE a DWC then you have pretty much eliminated most of the water surafcearea where most oxygen is taken in by the water. That is when air through air stones or a venturi/pump or needlewheel pump/venturi is important as then you are dependent on most of your DO coming for air bubbles as you have so little open water surafce due to all the roots.
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Currently I'm doing a side by side comparison to see if airstones and air-pumps are needed. My theory is that the recirculation of ebb and flow aerates enough as it is. I'm at day 40 and both trays look almost identical.
 

fatman7574

New Member
Currently I'm doing a side by side comparison to see if airstones and air-pumps are needed. My theory is that the recirculation of ebb and flow aerates enough as it is. I'm at day 40 and both trays look almost identical.

As I wrote before. It is not really the DO level in the resevoir or even the DO of the combined water returning to the reservoir is aerated enough to resaturate the water with DO. It is simply a case of is your system operating in a fashion where any water in any part of the system in contact with the roots ever reaching zero ppm of DO or very close to zero DO ppm.

High DO in a resrvoir is a concept blown way out of proportion. As long as all the water every where in your systems has some DO at all times there really is not anything to worry about. If your system contains design flaws where there are spots where the DO drops to below zero. Then in all likely hood, duh, if they reach DO zero ppm when starting out at over 8 ppm (fully saturated) a lower DO is staill going to simply produce the same bad results. In rteality the fact that at a few degees warmer the DO is at a lower ppm at saturation is not really an issue. What is an issue is if you do have bacteria growing in your system do to poor design the bacteria n multiply grow faster, consume more roots (root rot) and use more DO while doing so. So the scare about low er temps and higher temps simply apply to poorly designed and set up systems. Unfortunitly the majority of sy ystema are poorly designed and set up amongst mj growers. So "experts" rather than being honest say stupid things about higher DO at lower temps means you should maintain resrvoirs at lower temps. Kinda like lets ignore all the problems in al the bad systems in use by blaming it on a simple 10% decline in DO.. That is simply ludicrous. Duh, lets all grow mj less efficiently over alonger period of time just so we do not have to acknowledge we are growing mj in systems with a lot of problems that we are not fixing. As well we buy a lot or retailed systems that are poorly designed so we must grow at low temps with low resrvoir temps.

I know of many, many systems without airstones, however, any DWC system with every reservoir containing roots can easyily have spots where there is a zero DO without very good aeration or air injected opumped or released into the reservoirs.

Some of the best DWC systems have one resrvoir that contains no plants. That resrvoir is heavily aerated and a pump pushes the water through all the other sr reservoirs keeping them aerated. The inlet and out lets in the resrvoirs are diagonal opposed to create turbulence in each reservoir.

The best DWC I have seen used the same principle but also installed a venturi at the pump inlet. The pump chops the drawn in air into many, many very small bublles and these are circulated by the pump throught out the system. I have seen these set up with a dozen 25 to 30 gallon reservoirs and the water returns to the pump with only a 1 ppm drop in DO. as tested with a DO meter. The pumps are pressure biased pumps so the water is moving at a higher velocity (speed) than the typical flow bias pumps. Less volume greater speed. This means using pumps like Iwaki RZT pumps or Sequence reeflo Pressure biased pumps. The Reeflo pressure biased pumps are lower pressure pumps than the Iwaki. They run at flows and pressures in between the Iwalki RZT pumps and a common fountain/aquarium high flow pump (about 10 to 15 psi).
http://www.reeflopumps.com/pressurebiaseduno.html

There are many way to solve zero DO in areas of a growing systems. That is what people need to be looking at. many fixs are relativly simple. Things such as putting down a oiece of silkscreen cloth in the bottom of all small aero tubes and NTF channels/gutters. Growing only small plants in small tube aeros and NTF. Water unless under forve (high velocity IE high pressure pumps do not quickly move through thick root masses laying in a tube or gutter bottom. The silk screen allows flow both above and below the root mass. The higher velocity allow faster water movement f through the mass. this means that the water might possibly meake it all the way through all the roots in the tube or through without reaching zero DO. sometimes even those measures are not enough if you grow in afashion where the root masses are too large and your tubes or throughs need to be shortened. These are the typesof things that need to be lloked at, com nsidered and changed, not simply addressing DO levels in a resrvoir. In a DWC you need to worry about getting your roots moving enough so that Do laden water can circulate through out the root masses not just over the outter layer of the root masses.

Even Heath's vertical grow, sad as it is, is based upon the concept of keeping a fast flow of water moving through the systems so that the water does not reach a Zero DO anywhere. A DO meter is not needed for you to simply think through every part of your system and think "Where is the water DO going to be lowest." Now don't even think about trying to raise the reservoir DO in hopes of raising the DO in that spot that clearly will not work. Just accept your system or methodology is flawed and figure out how to increase the rate of flow through the areas that lowered the DO before the water made it to the Zero DO at that bad spot. Change those previous areas (smaller plants, silk screen, higher velocity, wider troughs, bigger tubes etc, so that the DO will now be higher at the worse spot.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
WOW, I have made many mods since then

Now using a pump with intake on the bottom and option to exit ehr from top or lower side for the win. Having it here allows the top to have a riser higher than thee water line. This creates a venturi effect which adds ton of air to the outflow, very effectively aerating the nutes, sans air stones

Here's a pic prior to the new pump using a hydro halo ring. Still the same but with new pump and no ring

Chiller Floom.JPG
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Currently I'm doing a side by side comparison to see if airstones and air-pumps are needed. My theory is that the recirculation of ebb and flow aerates enough as it is. I'm at day 40 and both trays look almost identical.
7 years later what did you conclude?
 

mr sunshine

Well-Known Member
A straw and a nice set of lungs works just as well. I'm sure most of you won't have any problems blowing for a few hours.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
WOW, I have made many mods since then

Now using a pump with intake on the bottom and option to exit ehr from top or lower side for the win. Having it here allows the top to have a riser higher than thee water line. This creates a venturi effect which adds ton of air to the outflow, very effectively aerating the nutes, sans air stones

Here's a pic prior to the new pump using a hydro halo ring. Still the same but with new pump and no ring

View attachment 3962670
Got any plant pics that you doing using that?
 
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