upside taco leaves and thin new growth

[orgnlmrwiggles]

the plants were looking great within week 2 we gave phosphoload, after that this is what happened. we didnt water for 4 days after giving 1 gallon of water w/ phosphoload to each plant, the leaves started taco'ing downward and the new growth/budsites are yellowish and very thin. i think the new growth leaves are taco'ed downward so they just look really thin.

i have already searched for hours upon hours upon days through rollitup and other sites.

plants are at day 18

 

[orgnlmrwiggles]

bump

7 gallon fox farm ocean forest
600 watt hps
4x4
supernatural line nutrients
ph @6.5 with ph kit
tap water

 

[plaguedog]

bump

7 gallon fox farm ocean forest
600 watt hps
4x4
supernatural line nutrients
ph @6.5 with ph kit
tap water

Not enough information but I will take a guess. Usually that is salt related stress (i.e. over feeding them) looks like the claw.

 

[Uncle Ben]

i have already searched for hours upon hours upon days through rollitup and other sites.

You just found your answer by pointing out a cause and effect drill - "within week 2 we gave phosphoload, after that this is what happened."

See my sig link and this one: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/158144-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom.html

I've said it a thousand times, cannabis specific foods and products have screwed up more gardens than I wish to count. The ads are bullshit - "30% more bud yield!" No, more like 30% more likely you'll lose your yields and perhaps your plants. A NPK ratio of 1-10-2 is ridiculous. Ads sell products as target noobs get their gullible asses handed to them.

Add insult to injury for falling for the hype, $110 for a liter of watered down poorly designed crap is obscene! http://www.gchydro.com/PhosphoLoad+-++1+Liter.html

If you feel humates are needed based on some scientific facts, then add peat moss or compost to your potting mix. They contain far more humates than any bottle snake oil can provide.

Good luck,
UB

 

[orgnlmrwiggles]

You just found your answer by pointing out a cause and effect drill - "within week 2 we gave phosphoload, after that this is what happened."

See my sig link and this one: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/158144-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom.html

I've said it a thousand times, cannabis specific foods and products have screwed up more gardens than I wish to count. The ads are bullshit - "30% more bud yield!" No, more like 30% more likely you'll lose your yields and perhaps your plants. A NPK ratio of 1-10-2 is ridiculous. Ads sell products as target noobs get their gullible asses handed to them.

Add insult to injury for falling for the hype, $110 for a liter of watered down poorly designed crap is obscene! http://www.gchydro.com/PhosphoLoad+-++1+Liter.html

If you feel humates are needed based on some scientific facts, then add peat moss or compost to your potting mix. They contain far more humates than any bottle snake oil can provide.

Good luck,
UB

alright, so uncle ben, i know of you and that you're one of the gods of cannabis growing, however;

i've never bought this in my life, my friend works at a hydrostore and his boss swears by it. and he doesnt swear by it just to get my friend and myself to buy it. he get s the small 9 oz bottles as samples and we always gets new ones for free whenever they come in. the boss sets them aside. and another thing, the phosphoload i have is rated @ .3-.7-.1 not 1-10-2. it could possibly be this product although. my buddy fed this stuff this time before i knew how much he was adding, but he gave the full strength. we always flush within a week after giving it which we did and then added nutes of grow/bloom/sweet. waiting to see if the new growth is effected. there are absolutely no signs of yellow tips/burning at all, everything is lush green. im guessing that these curled leaves will never go back like when you burn the tips and you have to go by the new growth, am i right?

 

[Uncle Ben]

alright, so uncle ben, i know of you and that you're one of the gods of cannabis growing, however;

i've never bought this in my life, my friend works at a hydrostore and his boss swears by it. and he doesnt swear by it just to get my friend and myself to buy it. he get s the small 9 oz bottles as samples and we always gets new ones for free whenever they come in. the boss sets them aside. and another thing, the phosphoload i have is rated @ .3-.7-.1 not 1-10-2. it could possibly be this product although. my buddy fed this stuff this time before i knew how much he was adding, but he gave the full strength. we always flush within a week after giving it which we did and then added nutes of grow/bloom/sweet. waiting to see if the new growth is effected. there are absolutely no signs of yellow tips/burning at all, everything is lush green. im guessing that these curled leaves will never go back like when you burn the tips and you have to go by the new growth, am i right?

OK, there are 3 things you can take away from this experience:

1. You can't trust anyone in the cannabis biz to give you an accurate NPK value (aka "guaranteed analysis") of their products,

2. No, the damage is done and the current leaves will never return to normal.

3. His boss swears by it because he sells it. I mean what would you expect him to do, stock it and tell you it aint worth a shit?

UB

 

[orgnlmrwiggles]

OK, there are 3 things you can take away from this experience:

1. You can't trust anyone in the cannabis biz to give you an accurate NPK value (aka "guaranteed analysis") of their products,

2. No, the damage is done and the current leaves will never return to normal.

3. His boss swears by it because he sells it. I mean what would you expect him to do, stock it and tell you it aint worth a shit?

UB

true.
so im concluding that this was a phosphorous toxicity. i have flushed and given them a small dose of fertilizers. as of last night, the new growth was looking better after flushing 2 days before that. think watering today with low nutes again and make sure the plant is doing better. also added a small space heater and set to 65 but i think i should raise it to 75. what do you think?

 

[Waggs]

OK, there are 3 things you can take away from this experience:

1. You can't trust anyone in the cannabis biz to give you an accurate NPK value (aka "guaranteed analysis") of their products,

2. No, the damage is done and the current leaves will never return to normal.

3. His boss swears by it because he sells it. I mean what would you expect him to do, stock it and tell you it aint worth a shit?

UB

Most useful thing I have read in 2 weeks, thanks UB. I never knew that the damaged leaves would not correct themselves, and have wondered for 2 weeks what to do to fix the plant I have that has that problem.

The cause of the problem was too much phosphorous?

TY!

 

[Uncle Ben]

true.
so im concluding that this was a phosphorous toxicity. i have flushed and given them a small dose of fertilizers. as of last night, the new growth was looking better after flushing 2 days before that. think watering today with low nutes again and make sure the plant is doing better. also added a small space heater and set to 65 but i think i should raise it to 75. what do you think?

I think you need to learn what makes a plant tick, the basics. For example, if you had the most basic concepts of plant processes, you would know that cannabis grows best under 85/60F day/night temps. I know it sounds like I'm talking at you and perhaps I am, just check out some books on culture, plant nutrition, etc. and when it comes down to nutes, stay balanced. I covered the P issues in the link above.

Good luck!

 

[glyphen]

Unc, your the man on the site.

Quick Q, whats Unc do for nutes? I try to let my ladies tell me what they want, and Ive never used MJ specific nutes. I read in my canabis bible like 10 years ago that MJ nutes are actually just regular shit watered down because MJ is so easy to burn.

After reading an OG like yourself confirm MJ nutes are BS, Im curious what the master suggests.

Everything I use comes from Wal mart or Home depot. Never had issues, especially issues like people report. I use MG products, w/out issues.

I've used scotts food, MG food, fish emulsion, superthrive etc-its been 2 decades for me and Ive tried just everything retail stores have to offer.

Whats in your lineup?

-G

 

[Uncle Ben]

Whats in your lineup?

-G

Pretty much what you described. I concentrate on the NPK and micro values posted on the lable. Who packages it is not that important as long as it is totally soluble. Peters is also good as is Dyna-Gro.

A red flag goes up for me whenever someone claims their products contain stuff that a plant doesn't need like amino acids, enyzmes, vitamins, etc. You don't see ANY of the regular, bonafide plant food manufacturers providing anything other than salts that provide NPK and chelated micros.

Good luck,
UB

 

[glyphen]

Thanks Unc!

 

[orgnlmrwiggles]

I think you need to learn what makes a plant tick, the basics. For example, if you had the most basic concepts of plant processes, you would know that cannabis grows best under 85/60F day/night temps. I know it sounds like I'm talking at you and perhaps I am, just check out some books on culture, plant nutrition, etc. and when it comes down to nutes, stay balanced. I covered the P issues in the link above.

Good luck!

ive got a couple books, but for some reason my effing buddies keep letting this one guys borrow them. it really pisses me off cuz whenever i need them, they are gone >.<

 

[glyphen]

Hey Unc,

Can you comment on the Molasses trick and the UVB (reptile light) trick? Lots of good/bad stories out there, could you provide some clarification?

One other Q. Any suggestions for Clones? My books suggest foliar feeding to help promote new growth. Ive never done this as I have always had very delicate clones, and the first few weeks after the transplant I try to let them acclimate rather then grow.

Any suggestions/referrals to good solid information on the first couple weeks of Cloned life? Clone foliar feeding?


Thanks a ton,

-G

 

[orgnlmrwiggles]

Hey Unc,

Can you comment on the Molasses trick and the UVB (reptile light) trick? Lots of good/bad stories out there, could you provide some clarification?

One other Q. Any suggestions for Clones? My books suggest foliar feeding to help promote new growth. Ive never done this as I have always had very delicate clones, and the first few weeks after the transplant I try to let them acclimate rather then grow.

Any suggestions/referrals to good solid information on the first couple weeks of Cloned life? Clone foliar feeding?
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/296685-lost-art-foliar-feeding.html
Thanks a ton,

-G

for the foilar feeding check out this thread :
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/296685-lost-art-foliar-feeding.html

i've noticed with molasses if you use 1-2tbsp per gallon of water during the last couple weeks while your not feeding any nutes, it seems to plump the buds up. leaves seem thicker as well. but you should see what uncle ben says. just because uncle ben is a marijuana growing pro doesnt mean everything he says in 100% right, you can find many different pros on here that all say similar but many different things. so you kinda need to just gain experience and do what you feel works best

 

[Uncle Ben]

Hey Unc,

Can you comment on the Molasses trick...

I'll comment as soon as someone can lay off the anecdotal evidence and provide studies that shows it's bonafide....and we don't need a vendor telling us it's great. I see no benefit in using molasses. Do the experiment.

and the UVB (reptile light) trick? Lots of good/bad stories out there, could you provide some clarification?

Grow a healthy plant, and keep the iguana happy.

One other Q. Any suggestions for Clones? My books suggest foliar feeding to help promote new growth. Ive never done this as I have always had very delicate clones, and the first few weeks after the transplant I try to let them acclimate rather then grow.

Well, being that leaves are the only source for mineral uptake with a cutting, foliar feeding might be a good thing. You'll just have to try it and see. Your goal is to provide an environment which supports photosynthesis for root production.

 

[orgnlmrwiggles]

update : just found out i was supposed to flush Before phosphoload, not after. that was my problem thanks for the help ub

 

[orgnlmrwiggles]

I'll comment as soon as someone can lay off the anecdotal evidence and provide studies that shows it's bonafide.

thats a fallacy. you can say the same thing saying there aren't studies saying its not better.

thats like saying god is real because no one has disproved it ;
god is NOT real because no one has proved it.

time to smoke, im sober

 

[glyphen]

I'll comment as soon as someone can lay off the anecdotal evidence and provide studies that shows it's bonafide....and we don't need a vendor telling us it's great. I see no benefit in using molasses. Do the experiment.

Grow a healthy plant, and keep the iguana happy.

Well, being that leaves are the only source for mineral uptake with a cutting, foliar feeding might be a good thing. You'll just have to try it and see. Your goal is to provide an environment which supports photosynthesis for root production.

Thanks unc, thats pretty much exactly how I felt w/everything but the clones. I have always focused on the enviornment they live in rather then feeding. I have always just given them good soil, and patience and I seem to have a 80-90% success rate. Im going to play "nice" with the foliar feeding till I get my groove with it.


Thanks Unc!!!

 

[Uncle Ben]

Thanks unc, thats pretty much exactly how I felt w/everything but the clones. I have always focused on the enviornment they live in rather then feeding. I have always just given them good soil, and patience and I seem to have a 80-90% success rate. Im going to play "nice" with the foliar feeding till I get my groove with it.

Thanks Unc!!!

It's just comes from common sense. If they don't need feeding, if they are not a position to make use of it, then applying what they don't need is silly.

thats a fallacy. you can say the same thing saying there aren't studies saying its not better.

There are never any control groups or bonafide studies on any of the supplements, just alot of "he said she said" and invalid direct coorelations without taking into account all the other factors.

A plant is real, religion and the belief in a God is based on faith, feelings, superstition.....whatever.

UB