New Cabinet Grow - 9'x4'x18" - Complete Build Journal - Lot's of Pics

[jsgamber]

Before I go too far, I want to run a quick ventilation/temp test with the light running. I cut three 4" holes along the top. All should act as exhausts. But for this test the center tube will be exhaust through the cool tube and the two outside holes will be intake. This gives me a 2:1 ratio.

Here's the rear mount point. 4" inline flapper (to prevent back flow) mounts to the back of the cabinet. 3" of flex ducting connects a 4" (5" square) landscape drain grate with the grate portion cut out.

This is the perfect mount point for a 120mm fan.

Looking through the flapper. The flapper sticks through to the inside of the cabinet enough to attach the flex ducting going to the cool tube. You can see how the grate was cut out using a chisel and a few taps.

Fry's Electronics Yes this store has good prices and lot's of crap to buy and every 2 years or so I find myself drawn in to buy something and something always goes wrong!! They have over 50 case fans for sale with 90% of them all covered in every known color LED (I want dark!). The price tags have all the specs printed on them to make comparison easier. "Hey what's this? 79.14cfm @ 2,000rpm @ 30dba for $4.99....SWEET!" so I pop 3 of them in the basket.

After I hook it all up, the fan runs sickly and will barely draw up the flapper!! WFT?!? 40cfm @ 950rpm @ 19dba? I'd really even doubt if this fan pulls 40cfm!! Another trip to Fry's to exchange for the $7.99 fans I should have bought instead.

More to come.

 

[goofygolfer]

great read great build scribed

 

[jsgamber]

Family obligation took my whole Saturday, so Sunday morning I hoof it back down to Fry's to take care of the fans. Did you know that it takes 50 minutes to exchange 3 fans?

After walking back and forth with 4 different people, we finally get to the "big guy". All I was asking from the start was "Do you have the 71cfm $4.99 fan that goes with the price tag (and printed on my receipt too)?" The first 3 people I talked to tried to hand me the $5.99 32cfm fan. They just couldn't understand that I needed 80cfm.

Anyhow, "big guy" get's me back over to the exchange area and says to start the return process for the fans. Next thing someone brings over 3 77cfm fans (with green LED's) which go for $9.99. "Big guy" walks over types in a few things and hands me a credit slip and says "just take this over to the cashier." Four minutes from meeting "big guy", I'm walking back out to my car.

Fry's can you please train your employees better?


So here's what we're working with. Now for the test.

 

[jsgamber]

Okay today is Tax Prep day so I'll be doing some multitasking.

So let's recap the test. My goal is get temps to stay between 75 and 80. For the test, I'm going to start with exhausting through the cool tube using the two other exhausts for intakes just to see what airflow will work and to get an idea of minimums. I've read a lot of thread on ventilation but some times you just have to see it work for yourself in your environment.

I've added a quick piece of flex ducting from the cool tube to the exhaust port. I ran out of hose clamps so the duct tape is only temporary. If this works, I'll make it cherry. You should also notice that all the corners of the cabinet have been sealed up with duct tape.

We have the fan mounted and it's running in all of it's green glory! I'll be snipping the LED's but it looks pretty cool for now!

Here's our pre-light baseline temperature - 70* @ 47rh

After an hour or so we are at 80* @ 40rh...hmmm. Gotta tweak some more.

I tried all sorts of different things to tweak including adding in a 9" fan to stir the air up a bit as well as adding 2' lengths of flex ducting to the intakes so air would be drawn in down at the bottom of the cabinet.

Well no matter what I did, the temps kept climbing and finally topped out at 84.7* Well if you look closely on the right side of the above pic, you may see the hint as to what was wrong. Any guesses?


Answer: The Ballast. When I tested the light earlier, I only had it running for 15 minutes before shutting it down. The ballast was just barely running warm. I didn't realize that it's heat builds up slowly over time. After all this is my first time running this equipment.

Okay so stupid me, in my haste to get things set up (wife keeps asking me "how are the taxes coming...are we getting money back?"), I didn't take the time to splice in 2 feet of wire in order to move the ballast outside of the cabinet during the test. Yes the final plan calls for ballasts being outside but...ok, ok, it was a stoner moment. But now I know and it's all good!


Conclusion:

Here's the final test setup. Ballast is outside. 3 x 77cfm fans exhausting out front door propped open to simulate intake (the plastic at the top of the door is to force air to drawn in from near the bottom).

And the final result? 75.7* @ 40rh

An hour later I turned off the 9" fan and closed the door (no intake!!) and the temp only went up to 76.4*. SWEEEET!

The way I look at it, I can drill six 4" holes down at the bottom of the cabinet for passive intake and all should be perfect!

Watcha guys think?

 

[goofygolfer]

i think it should be fine thats how sl2 does it passive intake holes in the bottom of the cabinet

 

[jsgamber]

Good to know Goof.

I'm hoping that this method will keep the 2 flowering chambers cool using 430w Son Agro bulbs. I have flexibility in that there are higher cap 120mm fans that can pull 120cfm. I can also add another exhaust port/fan as well.

I did another quick test last evening to see what happened with the light on and no exhaust fans running. Temps started at 70.7* and went up to 78.3*. I then turned the exhaust fans on and it took roughly 15 minutes for the temps to stabilize at 73.9*. I may consider putting the exhaust fans onto a cycle timer so they go on and off every 30 minutes.

The 9" fan does a good job moving air around the cabinet. Here's a question, should I run the inside fans 24/7 or only during lights on? My thinking is wind still blows at night, right?

One thing I forgot to mention is that I can easily keep my hand within an inch of the cool tube so that gives me maximal height in the cabinet.

There's an brief update in my grow thread if you are interested.

jg

 

[KolorBlind]

Man everything looks great! Congrats on finally tackling your heat issue, thats always a huge barrier.

The only thing that makes me feel I need to chime in is the lack of filtering smell. Is this your first time growing or do you know what to expect on smell? I only ask because I see people all the time assuming that it wont smell too bad and then they are begging for quick scrubber advice about 3 weeks into flowering. I saw that you want this to be stealth, whereas anyone can see it and assume it is just a storage cab. The problem is, in weeks 3-8 of flower, with no filter, they wont even make it INTO the garage to see the cab before they mention the strong odor. Mark my word you will be able to smell it from your driveway, back yard and inside your house.

Now some strains are very low odor, but the key word there is odor. Just because it doent stink like Sour Diesel doesnt mean it wont stink. The odor MJ gives off is a natural defense mechanism. Even with a great carbon scrubber, a tiny air leak caused my Diesel Ryder SOG to stink my entire house up to the point that I could smell it before entering the front door. And I had the cab in a closet in a back bedroom!

I dont mean to freak you out, I just want to make sure you are considering everything before you get started. That last thing you want is the wifey down your neck saying "I thought you said it wouldnt smell!" i know that was always my wife's #1 concern. If you live in the boonies, or if you smoke a lot and the majority of people that come over smoke too, then it can be doable. Most people will just think it smells like weed because you smoke and not give it a 2nd thought. Its when you have family, or friends that dont smoke come over that it gets problematic. If you continue this without scrubbing your air, I HIGHLY recommend you buy a large canister of Ozium air freshener. It is by far the BEST at eliminating smoke and other strong smells. We use it when the grandparents come over, and they have never said anything, and they are the kind of people that would say something if they even thought we were smoking.

So just a fair warning, always be prepared. The #1 reason people get busted is by opening their mouths, and I am a firm believer that the #2 reason is lack of odor control. IF a neighbor smells it once, no big deal...probably a skunk. If a neighbor smells it every day, and its stronger when he nears your garage...then you have problems. You will have a bit of time (roughly 6-8 weeks after planting) to know how strong the smell will be, and by then you will have to act fast.

Feel free to let me know if I am crazy, and ranting for no reason. If I have missed something in the form of odor control that you are planning on I apologize, just wanna make sure you are able to enjoy your harvest

KB

 

[jsgamber]

Gawd Dayum KB! Great Post!

A post like yours is important in every new persons grow journal and everyone who happens to saunter in here over the next 100 years should always understand what they are in for. I am a first time grower but not my first time around plants, and I do love the stink but I do need to make it go away. Since this is DIY I'm going with https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/101248-best-diy-ez-walmart-carbon.html. It's so elegant and will work beautifully with my 4" vent system.

Sunday (on the way home from Fry's) I purchased a 4" x 10' PVC tube for $8.99 from Ace Hardware. I plan on cutting pieces of this in everywhere I need a straight run. This includes the loop inside the cabinet which will eventually run through the cool tubes. Where the cost of 4" fittings is reasonable I'll do as much outside cabinet work in PVC which will eventually run out a vent on the north side of the garage. For me this is like working with really BIG LINCOLN LOGS.

As you can see, this project is a "build up" starting with the mother chamber. Between getting the garage in order, building the cabinet, working tons of hours and reading through this site learning/designing/planning, I have resisted the urge to go running out and get a couple of clones to stick under a lamp without being ready to go. My mother/clone chamber doesn't need to be fully buttoned up to go into production since I can cycle through the clone->mother->clone phases perfecting my craft, getting the nutes/temps/ph dialed in. Something else I considered is that I'll have lots of extra cuttings for me to choose 2 babies to go into flower every 2 weeks. Many dispensaries close by are always out of clones. Maybe they will trade clones for bud? It's kind of why I chose 250w in that space to give that extra light for a little bit more vigor.

Again KB thanks!

 

[boseke420]

mind if i join in bro lol im kinda new here dank ass setupp bro i wanna c how your whole cabinet turns out lol so keep it up bro better get ur money so da wife dont kick ur cabinet in lol

 

[Mrcool360]

Hey man nice grow! Check out my Grow in my Sig!!

 

[10jed]

Man everything looks great! Congrats on finally tackling your heat issue, thats always a huge barrier.

The only thing that makes me feel I need to chime in is the lack of filtering smell. Is this your first time growing or do you know what to expect on smell? I only ask because I see people all the time assuming that it wont smell too bad and then they are begging for quick scrubber advice about 3 weeks into flowering. I saw that you want this to be stealth, whereas anyone can see it and assume it is just a storage cab. The problem is, in weeks 3-8 of flower, with no filter, they wont even make it INTO the garage to see the cab before they mention the strong odor. Mark my word you will be able to smell it from your driveway, back yard and inside your house.

Now some strains are very low odor, but the key word there is odor. Just because it doent stink like Sour Diesel doesnt mean it wont stink. The odor MJ gives off is a natural defense mechanism. Even with a great carbon scrubber, a tiny air leak caused my Diesel Ryder SOG to stink my entire house up to the point that I could smell it before entering the front door. And I had the cab in a closet in a back bedroom!

I dont mean to freak you out, I just want to make sure you are considering everything before you get started. That last thing you want is the wifey down your neck saying "I thought you said it wouldnt smell!" i know that was always my wife's #1 concern. If you live in the boonies, or if you smoke a lot and the majority of people that come over smoke too, then it can be doable. Most people will just think it smells like weed because you smoke and not give it a 2nd thought. Its when you have family, or friends that dont smoke come over that it gets problematic. If you continue this without scrubbing your air, I HIGHLY recommend you buy a large canister of Ozium air freshener. It is by far the BEST at eliminating smoke and other strong smells. We use it when the grandparents come over, and they have never said anything, and they are the kind of people that would say something if they even thought we were smoking.

So just a fair warning, always be prepared. The #1 reason people get busted is by opening their mouths, and I am a firm believer that the #2 reason is lack of odor control. IF a neighbor smells it once, no big deal...probably a skunk. If a neighbor smells it every day, and its stronger when he nears your garage...then you have problems. You will have a bit of time (roughly 6-8 weeks after planting) to know how strong the smell will be, and by then you will have to act fast.

Feel free to let me know if I am crazy, and ranting for no reason. If I have missed something in the form of odor control that you are planning on I apologize, just wanna make sure you are able to enjoy your harvest

KB

This is a great post and I totally agree with your #1 and #2 scenario KB. Security is key for most of us! Another wrinkle for you on this too js, is that once you add carbon filters, even little walmart pencil cup filters, you are going to be taking a LOT of cfm's from those little PC fans. In my setup I run a 90cfm 120mm fan similar to what you are running. I would say that I am utilizing probably about 20-30 cfm with the filter. Just be prepared to change/ditch those fans because I'm betting you will be struggling once you put a carbon filter over them. NOT trying to rain on the parade brother, just hoping to prepare you if that ends up being the case. I am also a little confused on how you are running your cooltubes... are you running cabinet air through them or are you pulling outside air? Are you pulling or pushing? Best case scenario for cooling lights is to push air in case you develop a leak in your ducting. I know you said that you can get your hand an inch away, but ideal would be totally cool to the touch. Cooling the light further may make your carbon filter > pc fan situation more doable.

Just some food for thought my friend! Good luck.

Jed

 

[jsgamber]

Just look what you did Jed, you humiliated me and told me my designed sucked and made me go crawl in a hole and cry for over 2 weeks.

Only Joking!!

Well partly. The last two weeks was crazy and full of drama and at some point I'll catch you up on that. Needless to say it's kept me from my project but the wheels are back on the cart and we are rolling again.

Jed, honestly you did get me thinking a bit. I think what I've done is pretty trick and you'll like what I've done. I have lot's of pics and a few questions along the way. I still need to prep the pics for upload but I had to put this up to show you what I'm flying on...OMG!

It's called HKS. Pic one is without the flash and pic two is with the flash. My first hit was with my vape and I wasn't thinking and loaded a regular hit. It was the sweetest, fruitiest cough-fest I've ever experienced in my life. It definitely is in my top 10 all time eye-watering cough's ever!

For those of you following along with my New Cabinet - 9'x4'x18" - Complete Build Journal - Lot's of Pics head on over for a surprise!







peace

 

[EvlMunkee]

Hey jsgamber,
Love the thread! Well documented and makes a reader feel like he is there for all the thought processes as well as the construction. Good narrative skills as well.
Although you started with a general plan and focus, you are wisely considering the advice of other growers. These guys here are really good about giving us a heads up. Good designs need to evolve and adapt to changing and unexpected developments along the way and you have displayed a willingness to go with the flow.
I have built a cab for inside the house in a small room and was warned several times about the heat and a need to prepare for it. With some good advice from the folks here at RIU I did what I could without a total rebuild since I was further along in the project before I posted. Planning for adaptability is a good plan and I can see that you have considered that.
My biggest surprise that I didn't consider was the heat buildup in the room here. It is a smallish bedroom and when the exhaust is expelled in to the room, the room gets warmer and of course the intake air is warmer too. It creates a vicious cycle and the only way to deal with it is to cool the room independently and slow down the chain reaction. Unfortunately, in my situation, I will not vent intake or exhaust outside as I want to be totally stealthy and that eliminates the possibility of ducts to the outside. I can only vent free air into and out of the room through ostensibly normal methods.
Ok...nuff said about mine. Excuse me for rambling.
Great job so far on you cab. Good plan....good execution! I wish the best of luck to you. I'll check in again to see what you come up with next. If you get some spare time, check out my cab in the sig. +rep dude -EM

 

[Favre2Harvin]

So could you explain this again, you have 2 intake fans blowing fresh air in and only 1 ehaust fan blowing hot air out?? everything looks nice

 

[10jed]

Just look what you did Jed, you humiliated me and told me my designed sucked and made me go crawl in a hole and cry for over 2 weeks.

Hey! Mission accomplished!!! Thanks for having a great attitude about this. I am truly only trying to be helpful. I have been around this block a couple of times and the ventilation is always the biggest challenge.

Jed

 

[jsgamber]

Okay so Mar 24 my life boiled over.

Believe it or not I have been working on average 72 hour weeks for the past 2 months (including working from remote since I'm a systems guy). I have had 15 days of personal/sick time over the last 18 months. My company switched health care providers a/o 1/1/10 so I'm reconnecting with all new Drs after 15 years including psych and rheumatology. During fall/winter of 2009 I also volunteered on average of 15-20 hrs per week with school, coaching, etc. Just prior to Mar 24 I also had 6 toenails removed and a molar extraction.

All the above happening while trying to keep family life at peace (teenagers) and work on this project. Believe it or not it has been this project that has helped "keep me together" by having something else to focus on...it has given me great mental relief.

I was supposed to go to Vegas with friends on Mar 25-28 but since I'm a one guy department and we have 3 critical projects going on all due within 6 weeks and so we were going back and forth on whether I should take those days off. Mar 24 went to work and suffered a pretty bad panic attack (the heart attack feeling kind). I've had them before and I have my coping methods but this time my boss helped me through it (she's really cool). Needless to say after getting my head back, she said it's time for you to get out of here, and so began a two-week mental holiday.

I ended up going to Vegas after all. Spending time with life-long friends, playing poker were just what the ticket called for. I had a great time and actually spent a lot of time in the hotel room sleeping.

After getting home, the first week was spent sleeping and reconnecting with family (it was spring break). Apparently my body was worked!! We traveled to see my family and week two was spent reconnecting with local friends and trying to get this project back on track.

I am now back working half-days in the office and feel 50 times better. Funny what happens when you get your sleep, nutrition and spirit back in balance. This week I'm going to start back into running (no more toenail issues). My boss and I are working out a whole new schedule (the company has to make some changes on my account) because having me healthy and happy over the long term is much better for their bottom line than killing me trying to keep things going on an artificially accelerated schedule.


So now with that out of the way, I have a secret. We're growing now! So sit back and enjoy the next few posts on how I continued from this point to getting the ladies growing!

peace

 

[jsgamber]

As I said previously, Jed got me focusing on ventilation. As it was, the cabinet was holding temps okay but I wanted to see about getting the cool tube cooler. Even though I could get my hand withing 1/2" of the glass tube I still couldn't touch it for very long so that's where I focused.

I went out to Micro Center and picked up this 120mm fan http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0274204. It's 38mm rather than 25mm thick and it definitely pulls air at 133cfm and I'll use it to run the cool tube as a closed loop.

To create the fan mount, I used two 5-inch garden drains with the grating cut out and then taped to keep air flow smooth and then drilled four holes to match the fan. These pics were taken before purchasing the new fan.

 

[jsgamber]

As a review here was my first attempt at my cool tube and venting it. The problems, air leakage, access to the bulb wasn't good, no reflector, light too close to lid causing Mylar to pucker, and over all not polished or complete. Besides I can bend a hanger much better than that!! So hang on to your hats.

 

[jsgamber]

I used a 5"->4" reducer to connect the glass tube to the 4" PVC ducting. The piece of weather strip foam is just a sample. The foam is attached to the inside rim of the 5" end and covered over with aluminum tape. This will slide over the glass tube. The white arrows show a channel which will let the wiring out.

The 4" end will then slide over the flapper valve. I used 3 layers of Duck tape to make the seal tight.

 

[jsgamber]

For a simple reflector, I shaped a piece of sheet metal into a half cylinder. Using pieces of hanger wire, I created 2 hooks and slipped each onto a 5" hose clamp.