L.E.D. grow lights?

[Treeth]

Yow,

love ya man. I've been all over asian signals for years and I am still committed to them and what they stand for. There is lots of room for their products.

 

[420always]

have had no problems whith my led lights some people just cant aford to try them

 

[weedyweedy]

Hello!

I see some of you guys know a few things about LEDs. I need your opinion, cos I wanna know if buying one blue (for veg)and one red (for flowering) of LED like this will be sufficient to grow dank buds for 2-3 female plants.

BLUE

7W Led Grow Lamp , Light bulb

AC 220V - 240V

( Other Voltage Available )

in BLUE

190 LED cluster - Very Bright

Very Energy Saving

400+ Lumens

135mm Diameter / approx. 5.3" Diameter

Direct replacement for any 220 - 240V lighting. Direct Plug to AC wiring

Screw Holes for mounting

Can also be used for Grow Light Led. ( Other colors available )

RED

7W Led Grow Lamp , Light bulb

AC 220V - 240V

( Other Voltage Available )

in RED

190 LED cluster - Very Bright

Very Energy Saving

400+ Lumens

135mm Diameter / approx. 5.3" Diameter

Direct replacement for any 220 - 240V lighting. Direct Plug to AC wiring

Screw Holes for mounting

Can also be used for Grow Light Led. ( Other colors available )

The thing is, the LED setup is very cheap which is an indication that it might not be that "powerful", which is why I plan to grow only 2-3 female plants at a time. Is it gonna work? Each unit consumes only 7W, which is why I'm doubtful.

 

[fat sam]

i think if your going to bash led's you should try using them first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQD9fVymhmM
in one of my youtube vids here i am growing a plant under a 90 watt "scam" ufo, now im not convinced it will beat a 400 but look at it and tell me you cant veg with lede power... when it is done flowering ill know how it preformed... from what i have seen so far people bashing led's have never grown with them, i just got one off ebay because i have heard so much conflicting info

 

[weedyweedy]

What kind of LEDs did you use, fat sam? And how many? I want to grow with LEDs too.

 

[weedyweedy]

Bah forget about it. I'm growing with MH/HPS instead

 

[stelthy]

2X 90W UFO LED's 1X 125W envirogrow & 2X mini fluro's (side lighting) 3 weeks to go!! - STELTHY

 

[MrG]

Either you people don't know how to read, or your reading comprehension is so low you just cant grasp anything I said and instead continue repeating the same shit mindlessly instead of being able to respond to the comments.

Let me try again, maybe somebody somewhere will understand.

LUMENS DO NOT MATTER WHEN MEASURING GROW LIGHTS

LUMENS DO NOT MATTER WHEN MEASURING GROW LIGHTS

LUMENS DO NOT MATTER WHEN MEASURING GROW LIGHTS

LUMENS DO NOT MATTER WHEN MEASURING GROW LIGHTS

If you dont believe me then fucking GOOGLE IT. You are using a measurement that is WEIGHTED for the yellow-spectrum which happens to be the least efficient for plants. Lumens mean NOTHING to plants.

This site does a very good job explaining it: Light and Plants

Second, you guys look at this picture and nobody sees anything wrong?

The following are reasons why this picture is complete crap:

1. You are pointing 2 lights directly into each other's reflectors and then taking a brightness measurement from the side.... ?!?!
2. One light bulb is covering the light output from the other
3. You are trying to take an accurate measurement from 50 millimeters away from the bulb.

Here is a diagram of the correct way to measure lumen output:
Common Light Measurement Terms

Try measuring it properly by pointing both lights directly at the sensor from 1 foot away, and then come back with your "empirical evidence"

This forum is proof of what can happen when people who dont know how to follow the scientific method try and do experiments.

LedGrow is RIGHT plants use a wavelength that is different then the lumens you are trying to make a point with.. Lets say that our eyes can only use or measure a certain wave of light as with plants they benefit from the use of the red and blue Wavelength in the process of Photosynth.. Lumens are used to measure the out put of certain types of wavelength.. a MH or HPS will emit a wave the your meter can detect as with CFL.. they wave isn't exact to the wave of say a Camera flash or a HPS or MH..
each have their use and optimal application in conjunction with everything being right for that setup we get a yield the = xxx in our own rooms. I have grown with HPS/MH and the Newer T5 setup and the now available LEDS.. I have grown in Alaska where the Best light is available (LET ME TELL YOU) hehehe
Under MH or HPS you need nothing else in the light arena.. you do get heat!! cost of wattage and the replacement cost of bulbs ballast if applicable of course.
Under T5 you have two options really the Grow bulb or the flower bulb and of course a mix of the two so sorry three options. you also get Low!! heat low cost of wattage and the CON is you need to leave the ladies under light sometimes a week or two longer to achieve the same results as say a HPS or MH setup..
Under solely LED you need TIME and plenty of it to make sure the ladies grow correctly and YES they will produce almost exactly the same yield as a MH or HPS or a T5 setup.
Under the same I mean the same condidtions with everything like nutes, room size, temp, humidity and even the time light cycle the.. You get differences in yield..
Under again under T5 it is more time to equal the MH or HPS.. under LED you need same more time usually more then the T5 but not much more and yes equal yield .. being five ladies= nearly four o's per lady only shy like 10 grams.. I have been messing with this for a while now each setup along side the next at the same time of growth etc.. I have found that a T5 and some Leds work Wicked in the increasing of yield as long as everything else is equal. and my light cycles change from a 12/12 flower to a 20/4 for a week to two weeks prior to harvest. the push in yield on these has been pretty significant under the T5 8x54w flower bulb and four 250 each led panels that are 24"x 24" each along the walls and the T5 from above.
hope I didn't ruffle the feathers much but it is really based on the environment being equal to make a good educated choice.

 

[IAm5toned]

Look man, I don't know who you are or where you get your information (its certainly not based on science), but I just couldn't take the complete inaccuracy of your post so I decided to make an account so I could respond.



You need to calm down man. I don't know if you just had a bad experience with led growing or what but saying "absolute crap" and "bullshit" just proves you dont know what your talking about. Furthermore, it should be illegal for you to post all that completely bogus information and pretend like its truth.

Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. There is a very good reason why led grow lights dont have a lumens rating - its because lumens is a measurement based around YELLOW-WAVELENGTH light. Did you even read the FAQ on that superled page? Or maybe try wikipedia:
Lumen (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You cant measure an led grow light in lumens because led grow lights are tailored to the wavelengths plants are most sensitive to. An led grow light could have a MUCH LOWER lumens rating than another light but grow infinitely BETTER. Obviously LED lights will have lower "lumen" ratings, but using lumens as a measurement for growing purposes is completely worthless!

Look at this chart of plant Chlorophyll absorption:
Image:Chlorophyll ab spectra.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now look at the graph of the lumen unit measurement:
Luminous flux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The luminous flux accounts for the sensitivity of the eye by weighting the power at each wavelength with the luminosity function, which represents the eye's response to different wavelengths." In other words, lumens are good in measuring light for humans but completely irrelevant in measuring light for plants.
Make any sense?

uhhh, where in gods name did you get such a patently WRONG idea and become so certain it was true?
I hate to have to explain such a common-sense concept... but adding two 15 lumen lights together pointed in the same direction IS roughly equivalent to a 30 lumen light.

Eh? What in the hell are you talking about man? This is completely wrong.
Try staring at a flashlight for a few seconds. Now get 5 of the same flashlights, tie them real close together and stare into them. Do your eyes hurt more? Well they shouldnt! Light output shouldn't be any different from one flashlight! Right?!?

Its a simple concept. Light = energy. More sources of light = more energy.

If you have ever measured light you would know this is just simply not true. Adding more leds WILL increase the overall lumen output. (Ignoring the fact that using lumens to measure growlights is just stupid to begin with.)

Ahh yes the moment of truth. Anybody who thinks they will grow dope is a FOOL, you say? You should really watch what you say at the cost of looking very very stupid.

The following pictures are of the Lowryder2 strand grown from seeds using an ebb & flow system w/ canna nutrients on a 16hr light cycle all the way through. This was done using only the LightBlaze 400 which happens to be the light you are bashing in this thread.

Shes a baby->

Getting bigger, looking healthy->

Yep, 100% LED grown. VERY happy with the lightblaze 400 from LED Grow Lights - Plant Grow Lights ->

And heres a closeup ->

So what were you saying there about being a fool?

Stop acting like you are so sure of yourself. I had no troubles growing my MJ plant and people who see it are so thrilled they have been convinced to buy an LED unit themselves. There are certainly a lot of crappy led grow lights which are scams, but that doesn't mean the entire technology is flawed!

NASA is successfully using leds to grow plants in space (try googling it), maybe you could enlighten them with what you know and convince them they are wrong.

Unless you want to come back and tell me my pictures are photoshopped, i suggest you stop touting your incorrect assumptions.


You can talk shit on LEDs all you want, but my results are not isolated. There are others having just as much success as me and eventually you are going to look more stupid than you do already. peace.

I have a clue what im talking about...
credentials:
6 certifications in major lighting systems, from all the big commercial manufacturers.
4 years engineering school
4 years electrical trade school, and currently working on my masters.
i have designed and installed some of the most advanced lighting systems sold.
working on my 18th year in the industry.



LED's are crap for growing...... they will work, but with nowhere near the efficieny of HID lighting. its that simple.
i can 12/12 from seed under HID and have tighter, frostier, heavier buds than the same strain/grow duplicated under LEDs
and for the record, lumens have shit to do with growing anything.
a lumen is a unit of measurement for visible light, not actual light output.
if you measure the intensity of a lamp (any lamp) with the intention of comparing the results for growing, you need to speak in terms of Photosynthetic Action Ratings (PAR)
ex- a 1000w MV lamp will not perform anywhere near as well as a 250w HPS or MH... why? because the MH and HPS have a much higher PAR rating than MV...
do some research instead of buying into technology... technology is nice, but you forget one key thing about it:
technology is sold by people that are in business to make money, not help you with your grow.
if they think they have a valid selling point, (as LED manufacturers do) they will tell you exactly what you want to hear to get your money.
the people on this site have no vested interest in making money off your grows... some of them are pros that have been at it for decades. im not telling you what to do, but you might want to listen more and talk less, so you that learn something usefull, instead of just blindly following false promises made by people that are out to make money.
at this point in time, 600w HID lamps will produce the best quality light for the wattage consumed. whether you use MH, CMH, or HPS is a matter of preference.
see, you just learned something valuable from an industry expert..........

 

[cannabeast]

i work in a greenhouse, i could just ask them why they use about 300 HPS lamps per greenhouse instead of a million LEDs, but they might just look at me funny. look at the rest of the flower and indoor plant industry. even on the legal side where they are growing tulips and gerberas, they use HPS... when they switch to LED in the indoor flower industry around the world, I will too... but so far everyone is using HPS with the exception of a few amateur, 'grow your own own at home' guys who dont know what the fuck they are doing. look at the pics this LEDGROW guy put up. first of all he is growing one of the worst strains available from online seed purchase. ruderalis.. cmon man... and second of all they look like SHIT. WE ARE TRYING TO REPLICATE THE SUN HERE.

 

[endive]

Wow, so much HID vs LED aminosity... and I thought herb mellows the soul.

Just because you prefer one method, doesn't mean you need to bash anyone and everyone who believe differently. No doubt, MH/HPS grows can consistantly produce some amazing returns. However, I've seen recent LED grows that are nearing the 1g/watt harvest ratio, in both smaller stealth grows (< 1.5 m2) as well as some respectably larger ones (> 18m2).

Grow with what you know, illuminate with what light source you prefer. Be nice to others, plain and simple.



"Let us burn one, from end to end.
And pass is over to me my friend.
Burn it long, but burn it slow, to light me up before I go.

If you dont like my fire, then dont come around.
Cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes, I'm gonna burn one down.

My choice is what i chose to do; and if I'm causin no harm, it shouldn't bother you.
Your choice is who you chose to be; and if your causin to harm, then your alright with me.

If you dont like my fire, then dont come around, cause I'm gona burn one down.
Yes i'm gonna burn one, down.

Herb the gift, from the Earth, and what's from the earth is of the greatest worth.
So before u knock it, try it first and you'll see it's a blessing and it's not a curse.
If you dont like my fire, then dont come around, cause i'm gonna burn one down.
Yes i'm gonna burn one... down!"

 

[LEDGrowKing]

Wow, so much HID vs LED aminosity... and I thought herb mellows the soul.

Just because you prefer one method, doesn't mean you need to bash anyone and everyone who believe differently. No doubt, MH/HPS grows can consistantly produce some amazing returns. However, I've seen recent LED grows that are nearing the 1g/watt harvest ratio, in both smaller stealth grows (< 1.5 m2) as well as some respectably larger ones (> 18m2).

Grow with what you know, illuminate with what light source you prefer. Be nice to others, plain and simple.

HPS works very well. LED is now starting to work very well. I conclude we combine them. *points to signature*

 

[but thats my joint]

Man, there is some pent up aggression in this thread!,more smoking less arguing is required

I have been trying to create a really good resource for people looking to use LED grow lights for growing all types of plants.

I have created a LED grow light review page, but what i am really looking for to complete the article is a review of the latest LED lights that people are currently having success with, and also whether people are having success with a combination of led and other grow lights.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks

btmj

 

[bigdodenigga]

HAHA i just have to laugh at this...

im sorry Al. B fuct

but you just got royally pawned by ledgrow

aw that made my day reading that lol

just loved the way he took your arguement apart bit by bit top notch ledgrow

sorry, had to be said

i completely agree i think ledgrow is intelligent, and he isnt being any kind of dick, just stating facts, and all to you people who are closemided fucks just completely shut out l.e.d.s as an option, fuck you

 

[puffenuff]

Old thread but it got revived so gotta show LED lights some love. Never been happier growing than I am with my LEDs. Super efficient and extremely effective. The results ive had amaze me and everyone who has witnessed them in action.

 

[zatlkaj]

you guys are silly. LED is definitely the future of indoor growing. unfortunately this technology is still new so it still needs lots of developement and experiments.

why don't you rather encourage people like Ledgrow to continue their efforts and to improve their techniques? i bet first HPS growers got trough same hate and flame sourcing from dumb closedminds just like you.

 

[SuperQuick]

I won't quote anyone because this thread is just too jam packed full of rubbish I'd be here all day. LedGrow has said some pretty convincing counter arguments to the dribble that has been said and there are still stubborn and under educated people trying to argue their misinformed point of view. If you would like to get up to speed with the whole LED thing please read below:

First a little History:
I am a Mechatronic Engineer and have been serious about researching LEDs for growing for 4 years. When I started my research, LEDs were not up to scratch to effectively grow plants! The theory was there but not the production. In the year 2000 SolarOasis engineers developed and manufactured the world's first commercial LED plant grow light, it was insanely expensive then and it still is now and it is still ineffective. Around 2005, Hype about High Power LEDs started to get people interesting in the potential of LEDs. Then people started to advertise "LED Panels" as so called "LED Grow Lights" that still used 5mm LEDs and were also severely under powered. But unlike The Grow Bars from Solar Oasis they only used 470nm Blue and 625nm red LEDs which are the cheap, common LEDs. The forums lit up with people asking about grow lights and there were many making their own. The realisation of the Procyon 100 light was the first commercial example that I was aware of that used high power LEDs. Unfortunately it doesn't work as it was hoped either. It contains only Cree Red and Blue LEDs which are not actually aligned to the Photosynthetic response of both Chlorophyll A and B as much as they try to tell you. Thus, is not only inefficient, but is missing other colours that we now know are also important (UV and FR. Other manufacturers produced similar lights like the famous UFO light that has been so heavily copied in china. More powerful lights began to emerge from china but still restricted to the Red/Blue mostly due to cost, but also due to demand to get any old LED grow light into the market.

The LED Lighting market is developing at an extremely fast pace and research and development is increasing the efficiencies at an exponential rate, and the cost of LEDs are coming down dramatically. As of January 2009 there has been a breakthrough that promised to be able to reduce the production costs of LED dies by 90%. As that sort of technology filters through to the manufacturers and LEDs become used as the predominant lighting source, the retail price will drop even further. Lights are developing and since early 2008 TriBand and QuadBand LED lights have begun to emerge as the manufacturers have realised that the RED/BLUE lights are failing to produce results in budding/flowering. These new lights can have UV (395nm), Royal Blue (455nm), Orange Red (630nm), Deep Red (660nm), and FR (730nm).

There is no point sitting around crying that your UFO that you bought of Craig's list isn't working. Don't come to forums to whine that LEDs are no good and people should stick with HPS. If you had done your research you would know that its not the LED technology that are failing you, it is the mis-use of the technology and mis-representation of what LEDs are capable of. With such a cut throat market, and a mass of stupid people, of course people are going to cash in on the LED hype. But the Fact remains, LEDs will be the future of indoor growing whether you like it or not. Companies are using the revenues from sales of crappy LED Lights to fund the research that is required to produce better lights.

As for penetration, light is Light, the difference is the frequency. A possible explanation why light from a MH or HPS would "Penetrate" the plant canopy better is because plants do not absorb green/yellow/orange light very well. The light either passes through or is reflected, giving the lights chance to bounce around and get further down to lower leaves. These frequencies are not absorbed by plants, so the perceived increase of light penetration of a HPS does not mean that your plant is getting more usable light.

Next point I would like to make. LEDs are a different light source. It’s not like removing a Metal Halide and putting in a HPS. They don't emit light in the upper infra red region (radiant heat). This is both good and bad. GOOD because it will be the end of frying your leaves and buds and end to wasted energy and end to noisy, expensive extraction fans and carbon filters and greatly reduced heat signature! But BAD because during winter your indoor grow may end up being too cold. You may need to think about not only ventilation but heating as well. But that is not the end of it. If you have tried growing with 600W or 1000W HPS you end up having to ventilate your grow area in order to cool everything down due to the enormous amount of heat generated by the lighting. If you want to add any CO2 it’s much like an open fire, 90% will go straight up the ventilation shaft. The use LEDs makes it possible to seal off the grow space and introduce CO2 without it all blowing away.

The rated lifetime of LEDs is often stated as 50,000 hrs, it is incorrect to assume that after 50,000 hrs the light is no longer usable. The figure means that in 50,000hrs the light output will be 70% of its original brightness. And in 50,000hrs after that is will be 70% as bright as it was after the first 50,000 hrs, so in theory will just get duller and never actually die. (As long as the power supply can keep going that long)

So now we have a light source that uses half the energy to produce the same results, doesn't burn our plants, and reduces suspicious electricity bills. LEDs make it possible to eliminate smells and open the way for increased production through CO2 supplements. LEDs have an instant on (no warm up) and no cycle times we have to worry about. No more dead timers from the inductive load of inductive ballasts killing the relays and won't need replacing for a long time.

Unfortunately LEDs are not cheap! It is the efficiencies and features I mentioned above that make LEDs so promising. If you are trying to grow on the cheap, LEDs may not be for you. However, you can get a single 600w LED 5 Band LED light for less than US$900 posted to your door. If you can make that back in less than 6 months, the next 7-10 years is all profit and much more stealthy.

Just don't go around saying they don't work as well as a 600w HPS until you have tried a grow with 600w LED using UV, BLUE, RED, Far RED LEDs. Please Please Please don't go around saying, "I have tried LEDs and they suck" when all you have done is stick your plants under a 10w LED panel off eBay!!!
Regards
Phil

Nice info Phil, one thing you didn't mention is that LED's can also be dimmed (lower intensity for clones, higher for veg and flowering).

I'm also working on a 648W custom array 900mm x 900mm with 8100x 80mW LED's that will replace my 400W HPS.
Does anyone know a good colour/white ratio to use?

 

[cianferret]

yeah.leds suck...i tried em and got rid of them about half way through veg.....pllus ..that set up looks complrtley inneficient...

I dunno maybe I will still need to play with other lighting but check out my plant pictures. I used bloomboss led lighting, seems to work nicely. This plant should yield 2 ounces said a grower of 70+ plants who visited to asses LED lighting and their potential. Also I heard companies are very inconsistent about LED quality. Some are very overly priced and give shitty results while a few other growers one from a dispensary that is the second oldest in Colorado tested with LEDs and saw a greater yield and more potent buds. Another and last note is LEDs are very direct in their light path. It can get very intense for the plant to grow too close to the lighting which causes the plant to burn or stop growing. Same goes for having the light too far away the light intensity diminishes. I heard mixing florescent lighting increases the variety of the light spectrum.

 

[GroErr]

I have a clue what im talking about...
credentials:
6 certifications in major lighting systems, from all the big commercial manufacturers.
4 years engineering school
4 years electrical trade school, and currently working on my masters.
i have designed and installed some of the most advanced lighting systems sold.
working on my 18th year in the industry.



LED's are crap for growing...... they will work, but with nowhere near the efficieny of HID lighting. its that simple.
i can 12/12 from seed under HID and have tighter, frostier, heavier buds than the same strain/grow duplicated under LEDs
and for the record, lumens have shit to do with growing anything.
a lumen is a unit of measurement for visible light, not actual light output.
if you measure the intensity of a lamp (any lamp) with the intention of comparing the results for growing, you need to speak in terms of Photosynthetic Action Ratings (PAR)
ex- a 1000w MV lamp will not perform anywhere near as well as a 250w HPS or MH... why? because the MH and HPS have a much higher PAR rating than MV...
do some research instead of buying into technology... technology is nice, but you forget one key thing about it:
technology is sold by people that are in business to make money, not help you with your grow.
if they think they have a valid selling point, (as LED manufacturers do) they will tell you exactly what you want to hear to get your money.
the people on this site have no vested interest in making money off your grows... some of them are pros that have been at it for decades. im not telling you what to do, but you might want to listen more and talk less, so you that learn something usefull, instead of just blindly following false promises made by people that are out to make money.
at this point in time, 600w HID lamps will produce the best quality light for the wattage consumed. whether you use MH, CMH, or HPS is a matter of preference.
see, you just learned something valuable from an industry expert..........

Hmmm, so these plants grew to this size in 12 weeks and are now well into flowering after 10 days flip to 12/12 because… what? Because my water was spiked with something? NOT, no nutes other than my own DIY soil/peat/vermiculite mix. Because I added CO2? NOT. Because there was HPS/HID lighting nearby and it was responsible for the growth? NOT.

If you use them properly and figure out how to use them they work as well if not better when you consider all other factors like heat (none) and associated crap required to grow with HPS/HID. This is the second grow with them so this is not a one-of, they responded exactly like this in the first grow. It was a cheap/chinese/ebay 405W LED, actually drawing about 327W when I metered it. I've now purchased another cheap chinese LED from the same manufacturer to expand my room out and grow more. Geez, I must be an idiot I guess, I should switch to some form of lighting that will allow me to grow my plants… NOT!!

Get real… there are many people successfully growing with LED's, it's time, they're ready, yes, just like any other technology (particularly newer) there's crap out there. Spend a bit of time figuring out how to use it and the benefits (less heat and associated components/costs, far less power requirements) surpass anything out there. This cabinet grow costs me $40/month all-in, cooling, intake, exhaust, circulation etc. Sounds like a win-win to me, or am I just an idiot?

 

[Ammastor]

I have to add to this.

I have never used LEDs to grow with. But I have seen a few grows that were pure LED grows. And the grows turned out to be bad ass. I give props for the use of LEDs.

HPS/MH have been around for a long while. LEDs aren't all that new just semi new to this application. LEDs are found just about everywhere now a days.

If you could be sure you are getting the correct wavelengths when you purchase LEDs you would be set.

There was a study done a year or so ago. That found there were companies that produced what they called one wavelength when the leds were tested all the leds from the same manufacturer were slightly different in wavelength. I am guessing that there are the cheaper setups you see around the net for growing and everywhere else you look. If you could find a reputable manufacture and fine tune you LED grow to use what only the plant needs for veg/bloom. I don't see how you would be able to beat the price of usage power consumed.

Technology is great just needs to be tuned into for this application. And from some of the grows I have seen. They are getting pretty close to saving a bunch of people a load of cash and get some good bud during the trip.

I want to try an LED grow. But there are so many LEDs out there I don't know what to buy. Don't want to waste my money on a product that may be off a wavelength or so. HPS/MH are proven. Once LEDs can be proven. I can see people heading in that direction. But then there are the others who will stay old school and use the HPS/MH.

Sooner or later I will get around and try an LED grow maybe a plant or 2 and see how it works out.

Like I said I give props to LEDs they do work and if set up correctly. Could surpass HPS/MH in a load of ways.

In the future there will be more out there on this and maybe a great cheap setup. As technology progresses so wont the LED grow world.