light leaks are relative -- maybe even bs

buggin69

Active Member
Don't light your torches yet... let me explain


let's suppose I had some girls I had moved out from inside to a window to harden off... and then all together outside

during the hardening off and moving them outdoors i turned on a light at night to try to keep them from turning... people are so adamant about light leaks and light poisoning I just knew this had to work... the light wasn't right on top of them but it was close and it was plenty bright. well they turned... they turned just as fast as any of their sisters ever have... in two weeks it would have been obvious to a novice what was happening

and that's why i just don't buy it. I've seen a lot of problems blamed on light leaks and interrupting the light cycle momentarily... and i TRIED to do just that and failed... and maybe it's strain related... i'm no expert on all things light related but i know i couldn't stop them from turning

so let's have it... shoot me down... burn me at the cross... i'm ready
 

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
I try not to take any chances with this stuff myself, but I did read an article in Maximum Yield that stated that 0 lumens is actually still bright enough to read a newspaper in, and still have the plants go through their dark cycle.
 

riddleme

Well-Known Member
Love the light leak myth, it won't die no matter what anybody does

you could do over and over and there will still be some that refuse to believe it
 

wtfyouppl

Member
I'm not an expert either, but I'm thinking it's not so much that it will kill, cause to hermi, or anything the like. I think it's more or less that it'll have an effect of stunted growth, but then you have to figure that the moon can be fairly bright. They grow wild outdoors. Just the idea of Indoors your main aim is optimum everything if you can help it. I would agree that your right on people using it as excuse or a scape goat (so-to-speak).

2 cents.
 

buggin69

Active Member
I was trying to stop them from flowering so soon... because they will just stop when the days get longer and turn back... and if it takes too long there's a chance they won't finish before frost...

but i couldn't make it happen... i thought i could at least slow it, but no

so yeah... i don't buy it

if you have a bright light during the day and only a little it at night (or momentarily) nothing happens... nothing changes... they still turn just as fast... because that's nature
 

cymbaline

Well-Known Member
I thought I read somewhere a full moon has the lumens of 6-10?
You gotta figure in the equator region I bet it's stronger than that.
(or maybe that's what the article I read was referencing?)
It's probably just easier to tell people keep it dark than dealing with
why isn't my plant flowering and why did it pop balls all of a sudden etc etc
 

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
I'm still undecided on this one. I had a run last year and one night I couldn't get home and i left the veg room door open all night, which allowed 6 hours of light to leak into the bloom room. I ended up with my sativa going hermie, shooting bananas all over the place, and another plant never filled out, took forever to finish, and ended up with light airy buds. It wasn't super bright, just imagine leaving your bathroom door open at night, with the rest of the light off in your house, and that would be similar to what they experienced. Hmm....



As far as temporary leaks go, i don't think they hurt the plants. I have went into my bloom room quite a few times with a rather bright flashlingt, and never had any problems. I think the leak has to be pretty lengthy to do any harm, in my experience. :)
 

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
let me decide it for you man, not trying to be a smart ass about it either...

look out your window at night. is it pitch black? no.
lets pretend you can blame the fact its not pitch black on artificial light pollution (streetlamps, etc etc)
so lets head out into the wilderness... far far into the wilderness. is it pitch black at night? no.
lets head south to some of the tropical lattitudes... youll find that the closer you get to the equator, the brighter the night sky gets. this is really noticeable at sea. not like youd be growing on a ship, but just for examples sake. you will find that in most of cannabis' natural habitat, the starlight combined with the moonlight is bright enough to read by.
hmmmmmm..... makes you wonder why you dont have hermies in nature occurring on a more regular basis, doesnt it....

hermies caused by light leaks is kind of a myth. but it does happen.
let me explain a little further... bear with me on my layman's terms as well, its just easier for me to explain things in laymans terms to avoid confusion or misinterpretation.
if your growing indoors, its not natural. the normal limiting factors that are present in nature are simply not there in your indoor op. weaker plants that would normally die off in the wild thrive, because you do your best to provide the perfect enviroment. more often than not, the 'perfect enviroment' is too much for the plants, its not natural. theres no times of drought or shitty light or extreme temp swings to harden them up. you could compare it to raising a retarded pig and a normal pig, side by side in a closet. both will thrive, because you provide everything for them. however in the wild, its obvious the retarded pig wouldnt make it very far at all... for various reasons.
what this means, is that your prize plant that looks so nice and smells so nice might have the weakest genetics in your entire crop... but you would never know, untill something affects your 'perfect enviroment'... like a light leak... then, and only then, do the weaker genetics become apparent.

its not rocket science folks... its jr high level botany.
 

Cali chronic

Well-Known Member
Arghhhh does not anyone read before they post????????????????????????????????? This has been a topic for the last few days and I know because I started one and had to research it and answer myself. Then all of a sudden people have all the frikin answers to the Myth or wifes tale. People I will tag this light leaks, and flowering. I do not even bother to cover my indoor grow with a lid anymore. If you think you can curcumvent Flowering with a flick of a switch during the night. Wrong. Once she has gone into Flowering she will flower unless there is not enough light to finish her stages or you kill her. This is why the Bible says toss wm in the dark for a 36 hour run and this will force flower them. Try cloning from a flowering plant as see how long it takes to get her to revert if you can with shocking chopping and light change. Prob die before she would root. Hello?? Is this on?
 

buggin69

Active Member
Arghhhh does not anyone read before they post????????????????????????????????? This has been a topic for the last few days and I know because I started one and had to research it and answer myself. Then all of a sudden people have all the frikin answers to the Myth or wifes tale. People I will tag this light leaks, and flowering. I do not even bother to cover my indoor grow with a lid anymore. If you think you can curcumvent Flowering with a flick of a switch during the night. Wrong. Once she has gone into Flowering she will flower unless there is not enough light to finish her stages or you kill her. This is why the Bible says toss wm in the dark for a 36 hour run and this will force flower them. Try cloning from a flowering plant as see how long it takes to get her to revert if you can with shocking chopping and light change. Prob die before she would root. Hello?? Is this on?

sorry.. am i stealing your thunder??? don't cry about it... you're right though... i don't bother to read EVERY post on the board before i start one... oops... next time i'll look for one of yours and try to hijack it
hehe
 

swelchjohn

New Member
Intense prolonged interruption of dark is basically what would cause a light leak to be the main culprit of any major changes in the plant. Indirect light in small doses will not do much, if anything. But then again, this is only relative to my growing methods. Each grow operation varies in it's environmental factors, and each one may or may not be more prone to light leaks causing a catastrophe.
 

tdiddy

Well-Known Member
Agreed. I'll argue based on science and experience that minor light leaks make LITTLE difference. I think ppl just like to blame it on that when they dont have an answer. Kind of like when uneducated ppl give god credit for a miracle rather that the doctor who spent half his life studying the subject.
 

swelchjohn

New Member
Agreed. I'll argue based on science and experience that minor light leaks make LITTLE difference. I think ppl just like to blame it on that when they dont have an answer. Kind of like when uneducated ppl give god credit for a miracle rather that the doctor who spent half his life studying the subject.

Yup! This light leak thing is just like the PH myth. Scape goat.
 

Total Head

Well-Known Member
for what it's worth i grow in a closet in a spare bedroom and i leave the door to the closet cracked to vent throughout the whole grow. the bedroom has a window that gets crappy sun but sun nontheless. there is only a white miniblind in the window. basically in the daytime theres a degree of brightness to the room. during flower my lights come on at 2pm, so for almost 8 hrs a day there is some kind of light (albiet very steady and predictable) that gets into that closet during dark. I have never had a problem and this is my 4th crop in this closet, once using fem seeds. I just flipped to flower 2 days ago so we'll see about this time. I think the post about the lack of absolute darkness in nature makes a lot of sense, and the plants with the crap and possibly herm genes never make it to maturity. it's the jerky random bits of light exposure that is most likely going to affect hermi-ness indoors, and likely only on the plants with inferior genetics to begin with.
 

Prot3us1`

Active Member
ITs not rocket science..you are all throwing home grown ideas at a well documented biological occurrence.

You all forget mj is a plant, and scientists have studied plants for fucking years.

Hormones build up at night, and diminish during the day. Once the night period goes for long enough that the threshold is reached for the hormone that stimulates budding, a permanent hormonal change happens in the plant. It hits "puberty".

Just like a human, once a girl starts ovulating (producing eggs, for male genetic material to fertilize) there is no way to just change her back to a little girl..her hips will grow, as well as breasts etc..well you cant expect a plant to revert PHYSICALLY either.

In fact, once the plant has began to produce its reproductive organs it expects things to happen in an exact order...see its timed in nature so the female plant will have maximum potential flowers open and ready, when the male opens his pollen sacks...the light cycle is just a timing event so all the plants reach sexual peak at the same time..no good having all the females finish budding and start to wilt, then the males drop.

If you put a plant that thinks it is going to get pollen any second, back into vegetative growth cycle it panics...not the rush of thoughts panic that humans get, but a biological check..to make sure it WILL be pollinated..if the light cycle is wrong there's only one way the plant will reproduce (its whole purpose of living)...thats to pollinate itself...it will do this EARLIER in the flowering cycle to midway, not towards the end. There has to be time for the flowers to close up and seeds to form, or its useless. This is a hermie.

Plants establish a set of 2 "baselines" of light per phase. (germ, seedling, veg, flower, ripen) Darkest period, and lightest...thats why plants can still grow in moonlight, streetlight or anything else..as long as the plant isnt SATURATED.. put a few red and blue LEDS on your plant during lights out (from the start), all through your grow.dont move them or add more or less..just leave them there...the plant will establish that when the leds are on this is night even though there is technically enough light to photosynthesize. (not gonna grow more than a few grams if that was the only source, but there IS energy production.) EDIT: - (NOTE: The leds can be on 24 hours, or off during the day...your usual HID light will be on during "daytime"..so as the OP said (correctly) its relative....there must be darkness relative to the light.) (inside the sun a 400w hps globe is PITCH BLACK, relatively. as in it puts out NEGLIGIBLE light compared to the sun itself when at point blank range..you need to show your plant significantly brighter day than night.) - so if you trained your plant that night means pitch black, a crack of light is relatively BLINDING. If you trained it that a 45 watt incandescent is night, and 3x1000w is day, then thats what it will know.

Nature had to build things dynamically like this, as the planet changes...what if all of a sudden the moon shifted orbit, and refllected 20x more sun...all plants would die if they didnt adapt.

As others have said, i could have hand delivered a nobel prize winning biologist, who could stand up, and tell rollitup the same thing i just did, and people would STILL say he was wrong! They will believe what they want..and so will you...

Bottom line is:

If your grow room is pitch black 0lux - You wont be able to let any light in, without RISKING the female pollinating herself.
If your room isnt quite pitch black you set that "hair trigger" hermy button to be a little less sensitive.

Plants can be re-vegged of course...but they dont suck their flowers back in...the flowers that have formed will eventually fall off as they are no longer getting the hormonal signal to grow. Regardless of this the plant is still mature. It should have alternating nodes and preflowers on all new growth.

There are so many strains of this one plant that its literally impossible to know now what triggers what...in nature its easy..the sun does what it does the same every year so plants RELY on this stability to survive..if a plant is mutated and for instance the mutation causes the flowers to be blue, every seed that comes from that plant or any of its offspring (blue or not) have a chance at being blue too...the same way a triploid plant mutated an extra set of chromosomes to develop 3 leaf sets per node...this was only obtainable by doping seeds with a chemical (starts with c if i remember right)...but now its something we see in seeds that have never touched this chemical...someone grew a female triploid out, crossed it with a male, then sold or gave away the seeds. Others then used those seeds, with that genetic possibility in it, to breed their own strains...now you can get triploid plants out of a variety of strains...I had one on a double gum plant :).

prot

PS: Its hard to not go from here into genetic variance and natural selection...so im cutting myself off here lol..sorry if i left any points unfinished! I just had to delete 2 paragraphs and i cant seem to stay on topic :(
 

SCARHOLE

Well-Known Member
I have often wondered about this, cause on a full moon i can go outside an read.
Why Doesnt the moon outdoors make hermis?
Cause the plant can handel some level of light pollution.
 

mtblackdog

Member
Spot on! I too believe that the change in cycle is muy importante not the leaks themselves, its the constant that causes the change ie..... bright daylight 600HPS to Dark or no lights, nature changes slowly. In my room I have a powered vent tube coming from outdoors that is pointed towards the ceiling and lets "fresh" air fall on the light and plants, my lights go off at 3pm which casts a real mild glow on the ceiling from the duct doesnt seem to bother them at all, but it is a constant and Im sure if I left the door open or added another tube especially during early to mid flower I would have problems.
ITs not rocket science..you are all throwing home grown ideas at a well documented biological occurrence.

You all forget mj is a plant, and scientists have studied plants for fucking years.

Hormones build up at night, and diminish during the day. Once the night period goes for long enough that the threshold is reached for the hormone that stimulates budding, a permanent hormonal change happens in the plant. It hits "puberty".

Just like a human, once a girl starts ovulating (producing eggs, for male genetic material to fertilize) there is no way to just change her back to a little girl..her hips will grow, as well as breasts etc..well you cant expect a plant to revert PHYSICALLY either.

In fact, once the plant has began to produce its reproductive organs it expects things to happen in an exact order...see its timed in nature so the female plant will have maximum potential flowers open and ready, when the male opens his pollen sacks...the light cycle is just a timing event so all the plants reach sexual peak at the same time..no good having all the females finish budding and start to wilt, then the males drop.

If you put a plant that thinks it is going to get pollen any second, back into vegetative growth cycle it panics...not the rush of thoughts panic that humans get, but a biological check..to make sure it WILL be pollinated..if the light cycle is wrong there's only one way the plant will reproduce (its whole purpose of living)...thats to pollinate itself...it will do this EARLIER in the flowering cycle to midway, not towards the end. There has to be time for the flowers to close up and seeds to form, or its useless. This is a hermie.

Plants establish a set of 2 "baselines" of light per phase. (germ, seedling, veg, flower, ripen) Darkest period, and lightest...thats why plants can still grow in moonlight, streetlight or anything else..as long as the plant isnt SATURATED.. put a few red and blue LEDS on your plant during lights out (from the start), all through your grow.dont move them or add more or less..just leave them there...the plant will establish that when the leds are on this is night even though there is technically enough light to photosynthesize. (not gonna grow more than a few grams if that was the only source, but there IS energy production.) EDIT: - (NOTE: The leds can be on 24 hours, or off during the day...your usual HID light will be on during "daytime"..so as the OP said (correctly) its relative....there must be darkness relative to the light.) (inside the sun a 400w hps globe is PITCH BLACK, relatively. as in it puts out NEGLIGIBLE light compared to the sun itself when at point blank range..you need to show your plant significantly brighter day than night.) - so if you trained your plant that night means pitch black, a crack of light is relatively BLINDING. If you trained it that a 45 watt incandescent is night, and 3x1000w is day, then thats what it will know.

Nature had to build things dynamically like this, as the planet changes...what if all of a sudden the moon shifted orbit, and refllected 20x more sun...all plants would die if they didnt adapt.

As others have said, i could have hand delivered a nobel prize winning biologist, who could stand up, and tell rollitup the same thing i just did, and people would STILL say he was wrong! They will believe what they want..and so will you...

Bottom line is:

If your grow room is pitch black 0lux - You wont be able to let any light in, without RISKING the female pollinating herself.
If your room isnt quite pitch black you set that "hair trigger" hermy button to be a little less sensitive.

Plants can be re-vegged of course...but they dont suck their flowers back in...the flowers that have formed will eventually fall off as they are no longer getting the hormonal signal to grow. Regardless of this the plant is still mature. It should have alternating nodes and preflowers on all new growth.

There are so many strains of this one plant that its literally impossible to know now what triggers what...in nature its easy..the sun does what it does the same every year so plants RELY on this stability to survive..if a plant is mutated and for instance the mutation causes the flowers to be blue, every seed that comes from that plant or any of its offspring (blue or not) have a chance at being blue too...the same way a triploid plant mutated an extra set of chromosomes to develop 3 leaf sets per node...this was only obtainable by doping seeds with a chemical (starts with c if i remember right)...but now its something we see in seeds that have never touched this chemical...someone grew a female triploid out, crossed it with a male, then sold or gave away the seeds. Others then used those seeds, with that genetic possibility in it, to breed their own strains...now you can get triploid plants out of a variety of strains...I had one on a double gum plant :).

prot

PS: Its hard to not go from here into genetic variance and natural selection...so im cutting myself off here lol..sorry if i left any points unfinished! I just had to delete 2 paragraphs and i cant seem to stay on topic :(
 
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