Lucas Formula Recipe from Scratch "Really"

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12268 said:
not for long apparently :), anyone else know where to get this stuff??

also, has anyone heard of "plantex csm+b" , it's a "micro mix" for planted aquariums, could we save a few bucks and utilize this? would it prove useful in the hydroponic world??
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Ammonium Molybdate is 48% Molybdenum, Sodium Molybdate is 39.5% Molybdenum. Just use 18% more of the Sodium Molybdate than the Ammonium Molybdate called for. There are seveal weights sold on Ebay at this time, from two ounces for $4.50 to a pound at $30. Your only talking about needing a 10th of a gram per gallon of mixed 100X concentrate. Diluted this means about a 1000th of a gram per gallon of diluted nutrients. Not a lot of salt in that. There are more sodium salts in nearly all fertilizers than that as trace contaminants. Organic nutrients have huge amounts of sodium.

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=mo...ate&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313
 
bman01 said:
LMAO !!!! 12268 I just got a price to mix my own nutrients based on Fatmans formula and it works out to $23US to make up a 15 litres or both A and B. The company I used will sell all the dry ingredients in any quantities.
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bman01 I can't send you a PM back until you empty up some space in your PM storage. IE delete somesent or received messages.
 
whats your opinion on plantex csm+b fatman? could i utilize this if i get some iron chelate to beef it up a little?

Regular CSM / CSM+B
Fe 7.0% 6.53%
Mn 2.0% 1.87%
Mg 1.5% 1.40%
Zn 0.4% 0.37%
Cu 0.1% 0.09%
Mo 0.05% 0.05%
B 0% 1.18%

it would be so much cheaper I think if we could find a premixed micro
 
12268 said:
whats your opinion on plantex csm+b fatman? could i utilize this if i get some iron chelate to beef it up a little?

Regular CSM / CSM+B
Fe 7.0% 6.53%
Mn 2.0% 1.87%
Mg 1.5% 1.40%
Zn 0.4% 0.37%
Cu 0.1% 0.09%
Mo 0.05% 0.05%
B 0% 1.18%

it would be so much cheaper I think if we could find a premixed micro
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That translates to in ppm to 100 times that shown in percentages IE:
Fe 7.0% 6.53% 653 ppm
Mn 2.0% 1.87% 187 ppm
Mg 1.5% 1.40% 140 ppm
Zn 0.4% 0.37% 370 ppm
Cu 0.1% 0.09% 90 ppm
Mo 0.05% 0.05% 50 ppm
B 0% 1.18% 118 ppm

That is about 120 times the strength needed which is fine because you can dilute it. The mg (magnesium you can ignore as we use a 4 to 6 times the diluted amounts so it would just mean we would also use the magnesium suflate in our regular mix also. Copper would right after dilution. Diluted the Boron would be 2 times that needed but acceptable.The molybdenum would even diluted be at 5 times that normally use by mj. I have never heard of anyone experiencing difficulties from too much moly from just 5 times normal levels. Yes diluted the Iron would be low, however only during the peak of budding during the highets pH variations might you need more. The problem with iron chelate is no one tends to sell it in small amounts. 5 pounds at $40 is about average. As long as your reservoir is changed at least once during budding and you stay on top of adjusting your pH it would very likely be enough iron when diluted by 120. If you do not keep your pH within the range of 5.5 to 5.8 you will loose a lot to precipitation though and see physical signs of defficiency. Overall I would use the formula with the Boron (CSM+B). I would not dilute any less than 120 to 1. You do not mention is it sold as a liquid or granular?
 
+ rep fatman. Just read this whole thread and there's a ton of good info. Thank you fatman for sharing your knowledge.
 
fatman7574 said:
That translates to in ppm to 100 times that shown in percentages IE:
Fe 7.0% 6.53% 653 ppm
Mn 2.0% 1.87% 187 ppm
Mg 1.5% 1.40% 140 ppm
Zn 0.4% 0.37% 370 ppm
Cu 0.1% 0.09% 90 ppm
Mo 0.05% 0.05% 50 ppm
B 0% 1.18% 118 ppm

That is about 120 times the strength needed which is fine because you can dilute it. The mg (magnesium you can ignore as we use a 4 to 6 times the diluted amounts so it would just mean we would also use the magnesium suflate in our regular mix also. Copper would right after dilution. Diluted the Boron would be 2 times that needed but acceptable.The molybdenum would even diluted be at 5 times that normally use by mj. I have never heard of anyone experiencing difficulties from too much moly from just 5 times normal levels. Yes diluted the Iron would be low, however only during the peak of budding during the highets pH variations might you need more. The problem with iron chelate is no one tends to sell it in small amounts. 5 pounds at $40 is about average. As long as your reservoir is changed at least once during budding and you stay on top of adjusting your pH it would very likely be enough iron when diluted by 120. If you do not keep your pH within the range of 5.5 to 5.8 you will loose a lot to precipitation though and see physical signs of defficiency. Overall I would use the formula with the Boron (CSM+B). I would not dilute any less than 120 to 1. You do not mention is it sold as a liquid or granular?
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awesome! this is great news!! as far as I know its dry (granular) it (along with everything else we need) can be found at aquariumfertilizer(.com) (6 dollar flat rate ship, and by the pound) or greenleafaquariums(.com) (this one, I think..had more stuff than the other)

this is great news though, we can cut out buying single bulk micro..and just buy the plantex csm+b, then we just need to buy the macros!!

EDIT: priced at a modest 72$ shipped..for 1 lb "micro mix" (plantex csm+b), 5 lb calcium nitrate, 5lb monopotassium phosphate, 1lb potassium nitrate.. all that for 72 bucks shipped, should set us up for quite a while :)
 
That is enough micro mix for about 20 gallons of 100x concentrate and 5 gallons of the two part depending on which one or type your mixing. Either way it means with shipping included your price will be only 14 dollars a gallon at a maximum. You will have left overs also so the follow up batches therefore will be even cheaper. If you decide to use a Flora Nova type formula for young clones and seedlings Humic C and Fulvic acids can be bought cheaply. Plus kelp extract and even rooting auxins for making cloning solutions etc for cloning. http://www.super-grow.biz/FulvicAcid.jsp Add cellulose to the cloning solution and you have cloning gel. Cellulose is just made from wood fibers. It is sold cheaply on ebay as a powder.

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=po...ose&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313

There really is no reason to pay the ridiculous costs charged by AN, GH, or others.
 
Hey Fatman, great info! Has my head spinning though.

I am a new grower starting out with alot of the common problems discussed on this forum. I was not having any luck with rockwool due either to PH or over watering. I have plants that I started in early March in rockwool that are just now getting to the size of some plants I put into rapid rooters in April.

I have a closed system with A/C and CO2 and am running 1000 watt lights. I can make the temperature what I want it to be and humidity is in a good range ATM. I switched to hydroton as a medium after problems with the rockwool and fytocell materials. I would like to get a handle on the rockwool germination because I really dont want the organic rooters in the hydro system. Right now I am just trying to learn but ultimately I will be looking at doing a SOG lollipop style of continual grow.

The plants are going to be put into flower when they are ready (about 12" high) within a week or so. Based on this thread I went and bought some GH nutrients in preparation to use them for bloom based on your 2 part micro - 1 part bloom formula.

How does the CO2 affect nutrient uptake and do you alter your fertilizer accordingly?
 
CO2 used in conjunction with intense lighting, low humidity and high temps allows for faster growth and higher yields. As all parameter are increased yes nutrient up take will increase. The nutrient ratios will remain the same. The nitrogen in GH is only about 5% ammonium so your likey to have more problems with a high pH during budding then low pH. This means using pH down. This will supply extra Phosphorus and both a nitrate ion and a hydrated hydronium ion H3O2 which quickly becomes a H+ proton. This means it alledgedly replaces the extra nitrate previously taken up by the plant plus helps to restore the pH. If it was only that easy. Your calcium, magneisum and iron should be fine unless you experience declining pH. You will possibly have a bit of a nitrogen shortage but regular water changes and using pH down from Botanicare will prevent this. Botanicare uses nitric acid and phosphoric acide both in their pH down. Many companies just provide Phosphoric acid. Nitric acid is much more dangerous in its undiluted form than Phosphoric acid. Nitric acid cam only be shipped legally by truck freight and rail.

Basically with all other things being available at high levels the CO2 allows them to be used in those larger amounts. This includes nutrients. Expect about a 1/3 faster use of nutrients with CO2 supplementation. Keep your humidity down around 35% tops. There really is not a ceiling on temps of the nutrient weater or ambient air as long as you can supply water often enough. I would with high temps recommend a level of at least 0.5 ppm of chlorine be present in your nutrient water at all times.
 
I am currently using 29% H202 @ 1.72 ml / litre every 3-4 days... Do you think this will not work for the sanitation?
 
A little more dangerously then Chlorine, but yes it will work. With H2O2 being a stronger oxidant (1.3 times as much oxidation ability) it tends to more often cause oxidation of the nutrient solutions iron. If you see a reddish brown slime forming on the walls of your resrvoir thatis your chelated iron. Just amke a resrvoir cahange am nd use a smaller does of H2O2. The iron should be well enough protected by the chelate but that varies depending upon dosage of the H2O2, pH and your level of aeration. Realise also that H2O2 has no residual effect so it provides no protection between doses. It is also more expensive.
 
About a decade ago I used to clean and repair pools in the Phoenix area. I can attest to chlorine keeping the water perfect in sweltering conditions... (ER: pool water in the 90's 24 hours a day).

If you dont think chlorine will harm the plants at .5 = 1/2 ppm level I may switch to that...

How would you measure enough to dose a 30 or 40 gallon tank with .5 ppm?

Doing a little checking reveals that 1/2 tablespoon of chlorinating liquid (12%) will raise 100 gallons 2 parts per million.

If I translate that right I should add 1 milliliter of chlorine to a 40 gallon tank and then test periodically.
 
0.5 drops per gallon for 0.5 ppm. A teaspoon equal 76 drops. So 1/4 teaspoon is 19 drops. 19 drops is good for 76 gallons at 0.5 ppm. That means dilute some bleach to make additions easier. Roughly go with diluting the bleach at a 1 to 32 ratio and then a teaspoon per every 10 gallons of that diluted chlorine would be good for 0.5 ppm in your reservoir. I would add it at least once dail as it will dissipate if the water is aerated. Your 12% chlorine is about double straenth. Most regular chlorox (unscented is jsut below 6%). If using 12% you would need to dilute twice as much. Using Reguar chlorox you would only be adding 5 drops per 10 gallons for 0.5 ppm, or 2.5 drops per 10 gallonsfor the 12% solution.

Or simply put.
Or 15.2 drops equals approx 1 ml. So for a dose of 0.5 ppm use 1.25 ml per gallon if using Chlorox and half that amount if using a 12% Chlorine solution.
 
bump to the top WHERE IT SHOULD BE
(although i get the feeling, we will get told this is in the wrong section and beongs in nutrients section?)
 
12268 said:
bump to the top WHERE IT SHOULD BE
(although i get the feeling, we will get told this is in the wrong section and beongs in nutrients section?)
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That is a stupid place for a thread that is in=dividual to hydroponics. I usually tor totally avoid all other nutrient discussions but Hydroponics. Has a nutrient dicussion going in the nutrient section for a while b=ut all the dirt framers would just come there to argue that their out door soil and water soluble nutrients would work as well or better than hydro nutrients for indoor hydro. Finally got tired of Ben and left him to a thread that died as I left it. He inherited a ghost thread. Appropriate.
 
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