Roto-Grow Journal

aficionado

Active Member
What does the multi-zendo? I was told not to use it in aeroponics by idiots at the hydro store. Ive been using the same H&G mix as you minus the multizen. I also use H&G topbooster, mad farmers nuts& PH up/dwn, botanicare sweet& silica blast&blastoff B1 , b'cuzz bloom stim, M.O.A.B, superthrive, hydroplex, techniflora cal-mag.Ive been having root rot issues but seem to have it figured out with cutting back water cycles to 15 on/ 75min off, but maybe I need the multizen also? Have you ever thought of using a liquid cooled light?
BTW looking fabulous on that soil gro... house and garden on that also? what kind of soil is that?
Multi-Zen is a cocktail of multiple enzymes to help the plant break down the nutrients into readily absorbed components that it needs to increase growth, boost natural immunity, etc. I like to think of it as an all purpose catalyst to the feeding regiment. It in itself does not provide direct nutritional value to the plant, yet helps the plant make the most of what I have been feeding it. I like to keep my nutrient supplements as concise and meaningful as possible, so if I cannot determine the exact need for something, I typically don't use it. I am sure that many products are very useful, but in the end I find that a lot do not make as material difference when compared to all the simple things that can be done to make a better grow such as consistency, heat, light, humidity, balanced moisture, O2 to the roots, ph balance, etc.

Glad you enjoyed the soil grow! For that particular crop, I use all organic nutrients and soils. I use a blend of Earth Juice Grow/Bloom and molasses for the nutrient regiment and my own concoction for the soil mix. I was experimenting with various soil blends and additives to find one that works best for my grow conditions and those particular strains. After about 8 runs - some ending in utter disaster, I think I am getting real close. THC concentration, trichome density, and overall mass is some of the highest I haver ever have recorded. The guy holding the Diet Pepsi can is a fellow patient buddy of mine. I gave him one of those plants to take home and cure... I have not heard from him since. :shock:

I dabble in aero as well. In fact, I have created my own aeroponic system as a prototype that has just completed its first couple batches. I have not flowered anything with it, but it sure is great for clones/early vegetative growth in terms of pure speed and root mass development. For that system I only use a light vitamin B1 series and super saturated DO in a 76 degree reservoir. So much MJ to grow - so little time!
 

kpw555

Well-Known Member
What does the multi-zendo? I was told not to use it in aeroponics by idiots at the hydro store. Ive been using the same H&G mix as you minus the multizen. I also use H&G topbooster, mad farmers nuts& PH up/dwn, botanicare sweet& silica blast&blastoff B1 , b'cuzz bloom stim, M.O.A.B, superthrive, hydroplex, techniflora cal-mag.Ive been having root rot issues but seem to have it figured out with cutting back water cycles to 15 on/ 75min off, but maybe I need the multizen also? Have you ever thought of using a liquid cooled light?
BTW looking fabulous on that soil gro... house and garden on that also? what kind of soil is that?

Holy cow dude, you got the magic sauce fever!!!
 

aficionado

Active Member
Things are coming along rather nicely. I will be doing my weekly maintenance later tonight and take the new weekly photo op. Probably wont get around to uploading my notes and pics until tomorrow. Trichome laden buds are definitely in full effect. :shock:
 

aficionado

Active Member
Notes:
Week 7 - beginning of Week 4 in flowering (May 14 - May 21) notes

Preparation:
I have prepared the following nutrient solution for Week 7 -
1050 ml of Aqua Flakes A
1050 ml of Aqua Flakes B
380 ml Bud Xl
380 ml of Top Booster
150 ml of H2O2 (29% strength)
40ml of Drip Clean


Ph: 5.7; DO: 8.7; Temp: 80 degrees; RH: 45%; PPM: 1060

Light cycle - 12/12, water cycle 1.2hrs, every 12 hours (-1 hour shift from light cycle)

Notes:
Vertical growth seems to have halted and all strains appear to be into full bloom with top colas showing early calyx development and advanced pistil elongation. Notable leaf dropping at lower internodes as the plant diverts its energy to flowering.

Avg height - 13"
Avg width - 10"

Some specimens located directly under the bulbs in the light tube are showing lighter saturation of chlorophyll in the leaf matter located at the top of the plant. Likely due to light intensity and reallocation of the dark green coloration (Nitrogen stores) to other internodes. Some early coloration of purple hues was observed on some of the strains that exhibit those traits.

All strains showing accelerated calyx and pistil development at all levels within the plant. Internodes not in direct contact with the light source was observed to have a "ghost" like appearance with lighter colors and intensity. Possible sign of lack of light penetration below the middle of the canopy. Although sensimilla development is apparent at the lower sections, it is likely these buds will remain immature due to lack of light intensity, giving credibility for the need of pruning the lower internodes in the next experiment.

Noticeable trichome development on all specimens, some with trichomes extending well beyond the sensimilla and onto the smaller fan leaf pairs. Calyx density is as expected and showing promising signs of a favorable mass/yield ratio.

Oil production seems to have increased substantially and a destinct aroma is increasing in strength in the grow area.

H2O2 was added this week to promote DO levels and reduce algae buildup in the reservoir. Although mechanical aeration has helped considerably, the benefit/cost ratio analysis for another pump versus chemical assistance did not make sense, opting for H2O2. Will monitor closely over the next couple days.

Note: The following text was adapted from the H&G literature: "Never use an oxygen pump in the nutrient container or on the growth table. This may have serious consequences for the stability of the nutrients (pH- and EC-values)." I have not heeded this advice as I believe the benefits for DO concentration much more than the risk. I also feel that coupling the aeration with monitored and corrected ph levels mitigates some of this risk.
 

aficionado

Active Member
afic how long have you been growing? you seem to know a lot. story? lol.
Glad to have you aboard the thread.

I have been growing for a little over a year, since receiving the medical clearance to use the good stuff for muscle spasms. Conventional medication called for the use of heavy dopamines and other extreme sedatives for my condition, but I never liked the "feeling" of being not being in control of my actions and thoughts under those drugs. So I stopped taking them altogether. Nothing else worked and popping pills was not an option. On some of the nights I could actually sleep, I would awake in the middle of the night in pure agony, and after being rushed to the hospital, the doc would shoot a cocktail directly into my back to relax the muscle. Not fun. Luckily I was turned on to alternative medicines, and have never looked back. Out of necessity, and a little OCD, I began extensively researching the miracle plant a couple years back and now grow my own medicines and the medicine of a small collective of patients that have placed their trust in me. Never in 1000 years would I have even seen myself doing this, but here I am.

Trust me, I learn something every day about growing, and just am happy to be able to use my background, education and research capabilities to help the cause. I can only share my experiences (and many mistakes), and what I have learned through them. Take what you can use and make it better.
 

WeSmkDro

Well-Known Member
Glad to have you aboard the thread.

I have been growing for a little over a year, since receiving the medical clearance to use the good stuff for muscle spasms. Conventional medication called for the use of heavy dopamines and other extreme sedatives for my condition, but I never liked the "feeling" of being not being in control of my actions and thoughts under those drugs. So I stopped taking them altogether. Nothing else worked and popping pills was not an option. On some of the nights I could actually sleep, I would awake in the middle of the night in pure agony, and after being rushed to the hospital, the doc would shoot a cocktail directly into my back to relax the muscle. Not fun. Luckily I was turned on to alternative medicines, and have never looked back. Out of necessity, and a little OCD, I began extensively researching the miracle plant a couple years back and now grow my own medicines and the medicine of a small collective of patients that have placed their trust in me. Never in 1000 years would I have even seen myself doing this, but here I am.

Trust me, I learn something every day about growing, and just am happy to be able to use my background, education and research capabilities to help the cause. I can only share my experiences (and many mistakes), and what I have learned through them. Take what you can use and make it better.
epic. Im happy to be aboard the grow. Waiting on all the updates ya got : ) . thanks for the story. It really is a miracle plant.
 

aficionado

Active Member
I neglected to mention that in the set up of this experiment, I anticipated the rapid consumption of the local CO2 in the grow area due to the sheer qty of plants to feed. In preparation I installed a CO2 monitor and recorded four days of readings to get a sense of ambient concentration of CO2. I then installed a CO2 burner (propane) and set the CO2 controller to the average reading (330PPM). So although I am not technically 'enriching' the air with CO2, I do keep it from being completely depleted given I limit fresh air exchange to reduce airborne pathogens and molds from being present in the grow area. Air intake also passes through a ionization stream and <5 micron air filtration. I recognize it is not perfect, but it is moderately controlled.

In future runs, I may experiment with actual high concentrations of CO2 (1200-1500PPM).
 

WeSmkDro

Well-Known Member
I neglected to mention that in the set up of this experiment, I anticipated the rapid consumption of the local CO2 in the grow area due to the sheer qty of plants to feed. In preparation I installed a CO2 monitor and recorded four days of readings to get a sense of ambient concentration of CO2. I then installed a CO2 burner (propane) and set the CO2 controller to the average reading (330PPM). So although I am not technically 'enriching' the air with CO2, I do keep it from being completely depleted given I limit fresh air exchange to reduce airborne pathogens and molds from being present in the grow area. Air intake also passes through a ionization stream and <5 micron air filtration. I recognize it is not perfect, but it is moderately controlled.

In future runs, I may experiment with actual high concentrations of CO2 (1200-1500PPM).
would you mind if i ask what your education background is? while i can learn all the stuff you just said ... it sounds like you really know it. lol. i didnt even know you could measure co2 in ppms. : /
 

aficionado

Active Member
would you mind if i ask what your education background is? while i can learn all the stuff you just said ... it sounds like you really know it. lol. i didnt even know you could measure co2 in ppms. : /
No problem. PPMs = Part per Million. Effectively, PPM in this context is a count of CO2 molecules amongst a million molecules of "something" such as Nitrogen, Oxygen, etc. that make up the atmosphere. There are many commercial CO2 sensors/controllers available on the market that can measure CO2 levels and control power to an outlet that is used by a CO2 generator. When the PPM readings get below the threshold you establish, it will allow power to the CO2 generator (in my case a propane burner) and then shut off the power once the levels rise to the appropriate setting. I use a brand called C.A.P. Fuzzy Logic, Model 2A-PPM (http://www.gchydro.com/C.A.P.+Fuzzy+Logic+Co2+Monitor+|+Controller.html)

I hold 2 graduate degrees in engineering and life sciences. I have an extensive background in marine life studies and research and development. Basically I am a science nerd that, in my spare time, head up research projects and other ideas that captivate my interest. I also lead a non profit R+D company that I started to pioneer ways to grow, propagate, and eventually return back to the wild, corals and other marine life that until recently have existed for millions of years in our oceans but now find themselves on the edge of extinction. If you have ever had the chance to dive in the ocean near a reef, you will quickly understand how terrible it would be to lose these magnificent creatures without a fight.

Most of this thread are notes copied from my lab journal, so my apologies if it is written in "geek speak." If you ever have any questions of need some clarification, I am more than happy to explain - just ask. I also love any feedback and debate on any of my ideas and methods - again, I don't claim to have the answers, just the ability to help uncover them.
 

aficionado

Active Member
ummmm next question ... how do you keep your limit with the rotogrow?
In my State, the limits are still being debated with full legalization pending a ballot measure. As I had mentioned before, I grow for a group of patients (we call them collectives) so even if pure plant count is relatively high, these things are a foot tall with potential to only yield a very small amount each.
 
Hi Aficionado,

Firstly excellent journal to date, great control on your variables and documentation. I currently have an Omega Garden system that will hold 256 x 3"cubes and it is very similar to the Roto Grow. I am currently raising enough mothers so I have not started yet. I do however have some concerns and I would like some of your advice:

1) With my system the rockwool cubes dip into the nutrient tray for a few minutes and was wondering whether this was enough time for the cubes to hold water and nutrients for 24 hours...assuming your setup is similar.

2) When taking clones do you cut each clone at the same node number from the mother as to create uniformity or do you base it on height and not worry about the node count too much?

3) Lastly any particular maintenance for mothers or growing techniques to maximise cloning potential. Mine are currently growing in soil at around 11 inches with the potential for between 15 - 20 cuttings if I push it. Was thinking about putting mothers into hydroponics like a flood and drain system. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again
 

aficionado

Active Member
Hi Aficionado,

Firstly excellent journal to date, great control on your variables and documentation. I currently have an Omega Garden system that will hold 256 x 3"cubes and it is very similar to the Roto Grow. I am currently raising enough mothers so I have not started yet. I do however have some concerns and I would like some of your advice:
Welcome aboard!

The Omega system is a nice unit and is rather similar in concept to the roto, although I have not had the pleasure of working with one. I do have some advice for you though based on what I have learned so far with this model.

Hi Aficionado,
1) With my system the rockwool cubes dip into the nutrient tray for a few minutes and was wondering whether this was enough time for the cubes to hold water and nutrients for 24 hours...assuming your setup is similar.
The Roto uses a pump in the reservoir attached to a timer (built in). You can set the time of day and duration the pump is activated. When turned on, the pump will flood a tray directly above the reservoir up to the height of the return pipe - which is set approximately 1/2 inch above the bottom of the cubes as they pass through the tray. Capillary action takes it from there and ensures the cubes are saturated, and gravity also plays a part when the plants are flipped upside down. The Roto takes about an hour to do a full rotation, and I have it scheduled to flood the tray twice a day for 1 hr each time (12 hrs apart to coincide with the light cycle). When the plants are young, and not so developed, I found that once per day was perfect up until about the 2nd week of flowering where I added the second flood cycle. I regularly check the cubes to ensure that they are not dry, and just as importantly, not overly saturated. Roots need a lot of O2 to develop, so I find it works best not to suffocate them in nutrient rich solutions.

2) When taking clones do you cut each clone at the same node number from the mother as to create uniformity or do you base it on height and not worry about the node count too much?
The mothers I use are well developed and approximately 4 mos old. They, themselves were grown from clones versus seeds so node development was not symmetrical. That being said, I only target the tender lower branches for clones and keep my clones approximately at the same height (no more than 3" tall) and cut most leaf pairs off to aid in root development. For this particular run, I opted to use multiple strains to observe which work best in this set up. I find that root development itself plays a much bigger role in uniformity within the strain type. Clones that were not as far along (for various reasons), when transplanted, showed significant growth retardation while they played catch up. This can be an issue with the density of the canopy and accelerated growth, where undeveloped plants can be at a serious disadvantage for light in later stages if situated next to other plants who are further along (and much larger). This is one area I have noted to do differently next time and will be captured in the lessons learned part of this post.

3) Lastly any particular maintenance for mothers or growing techniques to maximise cloning potential. Mine are currently growing in soil at around 11 inches with the potential for between 15 - 20 cuttings if I push it. Was thinking about putting mothers into hydroponics like a flood and drain system. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again
Great question! One thing that may not be so obvious is that you need a ton of clones, all similar in development, height, etc. - at the same time. Not so easy to come up with 240 clones unless you plan appropriately. For my mothers, I have at least two of each strain (genetic clones of each other) and heavily prune the top layers to discourage vertical growth in favor of development of the lower branches (which I find works best for clones). These mothers are about 4 foot tall in 5 gallon pots or organic based soils. I have them under 1000w full spectrum MH lighting. With mothers at this age and pruning cycle, I can easily pull 60 clones each (no more than 3" tall). I never cut directly at the main stalk, as I want the node to divide further along the lower branches. I also prep the mothers with a heavy cycle of nitrogen rich growth formula at least a week before and ensure she is saturated with water at least the day before pruning. I would recommend you start to train your mothers now (removing top growth nodes) so that you have a great clone harvest when you need it.

Hope some of this helps!
 

WeSmkDro

Well-Known Member
affic , if i clone off of a month and a half seeded plant , and grow the clone to be a mother. will i see any defects down the line due to cutting it earlier than you suggested? will it not be fully mature? im still fairly new to growing and havent had any experience in this part of the adventure yet. thank you ! you are one of my gurus already : )
 
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