Don't Pot Growers Have a Right to Self-Defense?

[Wavels]

Wow, what a pathetic state of affairs....The WOD is immoral and unjust and anti-freedom....here are two stories which illustrate the abuses dramatically



Don't Pot Growers Have a Right to Self-Defense?


Jacob Sullum | December 21, 2007, 3:53pm

In another case at the intersection of drug prohibition and armed self-defense, Gershom L. Avery of Lima Township, Michigan, faces charges of assault and using a gun in the commission of a felony after shooting a burglar. The fact that the burglar was trying to steal the marijuana Avery was growing seems to be clouding what should be a clear case of self-defense:


"This is not some wacko shooting off a gun," said [Scio Township Trustee Chuck] Ream, a member of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "This is a homeowner, a worker, and a citizen. Even if it was found that he was growing a green plant, he doesn't give up his right to defend his family. He wasn't protecting his plants. He was protecting his wife and his life."

also...



Luther Ricks and his wife worked most of their lives at a steel foundry in Ohio. Not trusting of banks, they say they've lived frugally, and managed to save more than $400,000 over the years, which they kept in a safe in their home.
Last summer, two burglars broke into Ricks' home. He shot and killed one of them. Police determined he acted in self-defense, and cleared him of any criminal wrongdoing. But local police did find a small amount of marijuana in Ricks' home, which Ricks says he uses to manage the pain of his arthritis and a hip replacement surgery. Ricks was never charged for the marijuana. But finding it in his home was enough for city police to confiscate Ricks and his wife's life savings under drug war asset forfeiture laws. Oddly enough, the FBI then stepped in, and claimed the money for itself.
Consistent with asset forfeiture laws, the federal government now says Ricks has to prove he earned the money legitimately in order to get it back. Of course, he doesn't have dated receipts going back thirty-plus years. And he can't hire a lawyer—the government has of his money.
Also, under asset forfeiture laws, even if Ricks were able to prove in court that he earned the money legitimately, he, not the government, would have to absorb the court costs.
Story here and here.

both from
Reason Magazine - Hit & Run > Another Asset Forfeiture Outrage


What a pile of steaming, reeking dung!!!

 

[medicineman]

Wow, what a pathetic state of affairs....The WOD is immoral and unjust and anti-freedom....here are two stories which illustrate the abuses dramatically



Don't Pot Growers Have a Right to Self-Defense?


Jacob Sullum | December 21, 2007, 3:53pm

In another case at the intersection of drug prohibition and armed self-defense, Gershom L. Avery of Lima Township, Michigan, faces charges of assault and using a gun in the commission of a felony after shooting a burglar. The fact that the burglar was trying to steal the marijuana Avery was growing seems to be clouding what should be a clear case of self-defense:


"This is not some wacko shooting off a gun," said [Scio Township Trustee Chuck] Ream, a member of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "This is a homeowner, a worker, and a citizen. Even if it was found that he was growing a green plant, he doesn't give up his right to defend his family. He wasn't protecting his plants. He was protecting his wife and his life."

also...



Luther Ricks and his wife worked most of their lives at a steel foundry in Ohio. Not trusting of banks, they say they've lived frugally, and managed to save more than $400,000 over the years, which they kept in a safe in their home.
Last summer, two burglars broke into Ricks' home. He shot and killed one of them. Police determined he acted in self-defense, and cleared him of any criminal wrongdoing. But local police did find a small amount of marijuana in Ricks' home, which Ricks says he uses to manage the pain of his arthritis and a hip replacement surgery. Ricks was never charged for the marijuana. But finding it in his home was enough for city police to confiscate Ricks and his wife's life savings under drug war asset forfeiture laws. Oddly enough, the FBI then stepped in, and claimed the money for itself.
Consistent with asset forfeiture laws, the federal government now says Ricks has to prove he earned the money legitimately in order to get it back. Of course, he doesn't have dated receipts going back thirty-plus years. And he can't hire a lawyer—the government has of his money.
Also, under asset forfeiture laws, even if Ricks were able to prove in court that he earned the money legitimately, he, not the government, would have to absorb the court costs.
Story here and here.

both from
Reason Magazine - Hit & Run > Another Asset Forfeiture Outrage


What a pile of steaming, reeking dung!!!

And they call this freedom. I rarely agree with you wavels, but I'm in total agreement with this. It's kinda like the guy that was sitting at a red light and someone plows into the rear of his car,the cops show up, the guy sitting at the light had 3 beers on his way home from work, and he goes to jail for DUI. 400,000 bucks, that is just criminal.

 

[Wavels]

Yup!

I suspect nobody who frequents this site supports this outrageous governmental abuse...
We can achieve consensus here on this topic.

 

[ViRedd]

Hey, wait a minute Wavels ...

That 400K will go a long way to pay for some unfortunate person's medical bills. Just consider it to be another tax. What's the difference if the FBI takes it under threat of violence, or if its some crusty, bureaucratic IRS auditor taking it under threat of violence? It BELONGS in the government's hands ... just ask Med.... he'll set you straight

Vi

 

[medicineman]

Yup!

I suspect nobody who frequents this site supports this outrageous governmental abuse...
We can achieve consensus here on this topic.

BTW, is that your latest crop in your avatar? Looks yummy. You are an outside grower, right?

 

[medicineman]

Hey, wait a minute Wavels ...

That 400K will go a long way to pay for some unfortunate person's medical bills. Just consider it to be another tax. What's the difference if the FBI takes it under threat of violence, or if its some crusty, bureaucratic IRS auditor taking it under threat of violence? It BELONGS in the government's hands ... just ask Med.... he'll set you straight

Vi

Wrongo mr. bongo, strike three yer out. This typifies the responses from the Vi monster, Hate and loathing. Must be a miserable life.

 

[Smirgen]

Whatever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty" ?

 

[iblazethatkush]

This kind of shit makes me so angry. The government can do whatever the fuck they want and there's nothing we can do. We just have to sit there and take it while they rape us up the ass.

 

[Wavels]

For some reason this malodorous, unconstitutional abuse is even more alarming to me as I fire up a bowl on this Merry Christmas eve?

BTW, is that your latest crop in your avatar? Looks yummy. You are an outside grower, right?

Hey med thanks. I grow indoors and outdoors every year. One winter crop and two outdoor crops.
The plants in my avatar were grown indoors. This pic was from a few years ago in my basement in winter.
I use HPS 400W and 600W.

 

[iblazethatkush]

I grow indoors and outdoors every year. One winter crop and two outdoor crops.

Ok, I'm intrigued now. How do you do two outdoors a year?

 

[Wavels]

Hi iblaze,
I like to start my winter crop right about now, but I have been too lazy so far this year. Gotta get it in gear.

I veg indoors (24hr lights) for about 3 to 4 weeks and start flowering indoors apx Feb 1 or so, these plants I flower till early April.
As the weather improves in mid to late April, I start flowering seedlings I started in March as well as some clones from my preferred indoor crop plants. I bring these plants (all in containers) outside each day at about 7 AM and bring them back Indoors at 7 PM for 12 hrs darkness. This second crop I usually harvest by July 4 or so depending on strains.
The third crop is started from seed around June 1 or so and these I put (first week of July) in the ground as well as containers. These Buds are harvested from about mid Sept till late Oct (depending on the strain.) Most of these I let flower naturally outdoors.

 

[Your Grandfather]

Now is the time to act. Get two or three people together, go to the caucus or whatever your state uses.

You'll shit when you see how few people are there, with a little organization your candidate gets nominated and so it goes.

 

[iblazethatkush]

Hi iblaze,
I like to start my winter crop right about now, but I have been too lazy so far this year. Gotta get it in gear.

I veg indoors (24hr lights) for about 3 to 4 weeks and start flowering indoors apx Feb 1 or so, these plants I flower till early April.
As the weather improves in mid to late April, I start flowering seedlings I started in March as well as some clones from my preferred indoor crop plants. I bring these plants (all in containers) outside each day at about 7 AM and bring them back Indoors at 7 PM for 12 hrs darkness. This second crop I usually harvest by July 4 or so depending on strains.
The third crop is started from seed around June 1 or so and these I put (first week of July) in the ground as well as containers. These Buds are harvested from about mid Sept till late Oct (depending on the strain.) Most of these I let flower naturally outdoors.

Very nice. Mind if I steal your system?...Sorry to get off topic. That's just cool as shit, though.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Sadly, both cases are part of the risk we run to recreate as we see fit. The War on Drugs pays off handsomely on both sides of the law. Law enforcement gets paid-off through inflated budgets and Civil Forfeiture - a gross violation of the Constitution.

Case one: The 2nd Amendment says the man had a right to own a firearm. An unconstitutional Federal statute ensures that an otherwise law abiding citizen be severely penalized for having illegal narcotics and firearms under the same roof.

Case two: This case underscores the lunacy of Civil Forfeiture. There is no way LEOs would walk away from 400k in cash without their cut.

Both cases demonstrate how the War on Drugs isn't really about drugs. The War on Drugs is about power. Corrupt officials need an excuse to get around that pesky Bill of Rights. Weed or >10k allows government to crawl right up our asses.

 

[ViRedd]

Whatever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty" ?

That right ended with the 16th Amendment to the Constitution in 1913.

Vi

 

[jsgrwn]

What A Fucked Up Place This Has Become...yes It Is Great That There Are A Number Of States That Have Some Form Of Med Marijuana Law. There Have Been Enough People Realizing The Good Qualities Of The Plant To Legalize It. But In Most Of These States If You Grow Weed And Have Guns This Is A No No. That Is Utter Bs If You Ask Me...we Do Not Have The Right To Protect Our Belongings, Which I Understand. A Human Life Is Worth More Bud Than Could Ever Be Grown, But If We As Patients Done Have The Right To Protect Our Lives Due To A Substance That Some Consider Dangerous Then Why Can I Have All The Booze I Want And Sit On My Couch Drunk With A Shotgun In Hand. Shit Now Im Pissed...going To Medicate Now. Late